Is sspx in schism

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Famulus

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I was curious, is the sspx bad or in schism with Rome or the Pope in any way? I always preferred the Fssp more, but I didn’t think it was actually in schism at all. I heard they can do most things but the Mass, is this true? Thanks in advance
 
They aren’t in schism they are in a canonically irregular situation where they are in communion with Rome but not where they’re sacraments are validly and licit but they the priest’s aren’t recognized by the bishops in which the diocese belongs to. Its a extremely complex situation unless there is no other Latin Mass in your area or of the other Latin masses are independent chapels and sedevacatists don’t go there. I could be wrong on there status so if I am please correct me.
 
Sean said:
They aren’t in schism they are in a canonically irregular situation where they are in communion with Rome but not where they’re sacraments are validly and licit but they the priest’s aren’t recognized by the bishops in which the diocese belongs to. Its a extremely complex situation unless there is no other Latin Mass in your area or of the other Latin masses are independent chapels and sedevacatists don’t go there. I could be wrong on there status so if I am please correct me.
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A licit mass of whatever form is preferable to an illicit mass.
 
Sean said:
They aren’t in schism they are in a canonically irregular situation where they are in communion with Rome but not where they’re sacraments are validly and licit but they the priest’s aren’t recognized by the bishops in which the diocese belongs to. Its a extremely complex situation unless there is no other Latin Mass in your area or of the other Latin masses are independent chapels and sedevacatists don’t go there. I could be wrong on there status so if I am please correct me.
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I’m not entirely clear on every aspect of your description. I would characterize their situation as follows:
  • They are not in schism.
  • They are, indeed, in a canonically irregular situation.
  • They are in communion with Rome.
  • Due to several provisions made by Rome, all of their sacraments are both valid and licit.
  • Where matrimony is concerned, they do have to receive faculties from the local bishop. Some bishops grant these, some do not.
  • It is more ideal to attend diocesan Latin Masses, but the faithful may attend SSPX Masses at their discretion.
  • In no case may the faithful adopt a schismatic mentality, nor challenge the Second Vatican Council when interpreted according to the analogy of faith (analogia fidei). The latter is the only real “sticking point” between Rome and the SSPX.
 
Sean said:
are in communion with Rome
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A qualifier would be beneficial here because if they were in full communion with Rome there would be no need for discussion here. They are partially, or mostly, in communion with Rome.
 
They are in communion with Rome they are just in a canonically irregular situation
 
gracepoole said:
No, the SSPX is not in schism. It is in an “irregular” relationship with the Vatican.
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Sean said:
They aren’t in schism they are in a canonically irregular situation
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MarkRome said:
if they were in full communion with Rome there would be no need for discussion here. They are partially, or mostly, in communion with Rome.
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Briefly, the SSPX is half in and half out, one foot in and one foot out. Successive popes have diplomatically left the door open, indicating to the SSPXers that they will be welcome home, just as soon as they make up their minds that that’s what they want.
 
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They aren’t in full communion with Rome. I hope one day they are.
 
BartholomewB said:
Briefly, the SSPX is half in and half out, one foot in and one foot out. Successive popes have diplomatically left the door open, indicating to the SSPXers that they will be welcome home, just as soon as they make up their minds that that’s what they want.
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That’s one way of putting it. As things have morphed over the years, what seems to be playing out now, is something like “all right, SSPX, we will give you basically everything you want, valid sacraments and everything, all you have to do now, is to sign off that you do accept Vatican II, you can have your dubia, you can have your analogia fidei, fine and dandy, just sign off on this, OK?”.
 
The SSPX is an irregular canonical situation as has been stated. They are not in full communion with Rome

The reason the society is not in full communion with Rome is that their founder and leadership committed a schismatic act. They were excommunicated for this. Over the past few decades both sides have worked to reconcile this unfortunate situation.

Recently, Rome made an extraordinary gesture of good will and lifted the excommunications of the SSPX Bishops. This created momentum towards full communion… the ball is now in the SSPX’s court. Ultimately, they will have to end their disobedience and accept the validity of the Second Vatican Ecumenical Council if they desire to be fully in the Church.

To be clear, it is not a good situation. Hopefully, the SSPX will come back inside the Church fully one day soon
 
Famulus said:
I was curious, is the sspx bad or in schism with Rome or the Pope in any way? I always preferred the Fssp more, but I didn’t think it was actually in schism at all. I heard they can do most things but the Mass, is this true? Thanks in advance
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Not in schism, an irregular relationship but they are in full communion with Rome.
 
In fairness the code of canon law says that a latae sentitia excommunication does not occur if the person has a relatively grave fear he is not excommunicated latare sententiae. Archbishop Lerfvebere was afraid of the future of the Latin Mass and felt the need to do it out of necessity so there is even doubt that the excommuncations happend in the first place.
 
godisgood77 said:
they will have to end their disobedience and accept the validity of the Second Vatican Ecumenical Council if they desire to be fully in the Church.
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The great majority of Catholic life and ministry takes place in and through a diocese. This is true for religious orders, and for any Laity attached to their programs.

This is the real sticking point, not far-away Rome, not how they interpret a council document from the 1960s.
Will the chapel accept the local bishop as their actual Ordinary?
 
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