is supporting gay marriage an excommunicatable offense?

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morbe77

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I read a lot of stuff on the internet that raises questions. The latest I’ve read was that supporting gay marriage as a Catholic is an excommunicatable offense? Is that true? I’ve always said as long as the Church doesnt accept same sex marriages who cares what the states does. I see same sex marriage through the state as a “right” and not a valid marriage. Is this wrong to think this way? I would think that any excommunicatable offense would be more serious than a view point or opinions right
 
Supporting same-sex “Marriage” does not, that I am aware, lead to automatic excommunication. [Abortion does.]

That having been said, I think you are approaching this the wrong way. Sin is sin, no matter what name we give it. Supporting sin is supporting sin, no matter what name we give it. Being of an opinion that supports sin is still…[do you see the point?].

This (click the following link) was provided by CA Apologist Peggy Frye some time ago, and tells you exactly which offenses are excommunicable:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=313534&postcount=2
 
Oh i’m not supporting sin. I am fully aware that same sex relationship carry the same sin as heterosexual couples married outside of the church…its all adultery and I understand this and I don’t condone it. What I am for is gay rights. I feel that despite what sins they commit they should be treated as equals and with equal respect and compassion. My point being that as Catholics if the state recognizes a heterosexual marriage out side of church, but the church doesnt what difference does the sex of the parties involve make. I have been married and divorced twice and lived a life of sin twice becuase my marriages were not recognized by the church. I carried the same sin and burden with the Church as homosexual couple. I believe that ALL sexual acts outside of a Catholic recognized marriage is a sin. So I dont support it I just dont care of gay marriages are legal or not. Just so long as the Church stands by her principles.
 
morbe77 said:
Oh i’m not supporting sin. I am fully aware that same sex relationship carry the same sin as heterosexual couples married outside of the church…its all adultery and I understand this and I don’t condone it. What I am for is gay rights. I feel that despite what sins they commit they should be treated as equals and with equal respect and compassion. My point being that as Catholics if the state recognizes a heterosexual marriage out side of church, but the church doesnt what difference does the sex of the parties involve make. I have been married and divorced twice and lived a life of sin twice becuase my marriages were not recognized by the church. I carried the same sin and burden with the Church as homosexual couple. I believe that ALL sexual acts outside of a Catholic recognized marriage is a sin. So I dont support it I just dont care of gay marriages are legal or not. Just so long as the Church stands by her principles.
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But you just said “I am for gay rights.” It seems like you are contradicting yourself. Can you clarify what you mean?
 
I think I know where you’re coming from, so then it would be as supporting a couple that exists outside the bounds of the Church and co-habitate under the form of a same sex marriage, correct?
 
ahs said:
Supporting same-sex “Marriage” does not, that I am aware, lead to automatic excommunication. [Abortion does]
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This is far too general a statement…many abortions are not even mortal sins…so any statement that claims abortion results in automatic excommunication needs qualification…when we make sweeping generalities like this we are uncharitable to those who aborted pregnancy without full knowledge or willful consent, by dumping undue guilt onto self-guilt they are already enendurily
 
Allow me to clarify my stance. I support Gay rights as they should be treated as equals. They should not be treated as different. By saying this I am not contradicting myself. Should they be able to be married through a church or by clergy member of any church founded on God teachings absolutely not. As I mentioned before in an earlier post this is sinful. I know that its wrong and I don’t condone it. But if the state wants to give them a piece of paper so they can share health insurance or get a cheaper auto insurance rate, I honestly don’t care. Its just a worthless piece of paper the justice of the peace hands out. In my eyes it doesn’t mean anything. It doesn’t mean anything to heterosexuals in the eyes of the church. Nor does it mean anything for homosexuals in the eyes of the Church. If same sex marriages remain banned great. If they’re ever legalized and allowed, like homosexuality itself, contraception, Adultery, worshiping strange Gods, there is honestly nothing I can do except as a Christian offer my knowledge about the teachings of Christ to those who seek it. As a Catholic offer my knowledge to those interested about the Catholic faith.
 
morbe77 said:
Allow me to clarify my stance. I support Gay rights as they should be treated as equals. They should not be treated as different. By saying this I am not contradicting myself. Should they be able to be married through a church or by clergy member of any church founded on God teachings absolutely not. As I mentioned before in an earlier post this is sinful. I know that its wrong and I don’t condone it. But if the state wants to give them a piece of paper so they can share health insurance or get a cheaper auto insurance rate, I honestly don’t care. Its just a worthless piece of paper the justice of the peace hands out. In my eyes it doesn’t mean anything. It doesn’t mean anything to heterosexuals in the eyes of the church. Nor does it mean anything for homosexuals in the eyes of the Church. If same sex marriages remain banned great. If they’re ever legalized and allowed, like homosexuality itself, contraception, Adultery, worshiping strange Gods, there is honestly nothing I can do except as a Christian offer my knowledge about the teachings of Christ to those who seek it. As a Catholic offer my knowledge to those interested about the Catholic faith.
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They should be treated as equals with regard to marriage?
 
Neofight said:
This is far too general a statement…many abortions are not even mortal sins…so any statement that claims abortion results in automatic excommunication needs qualification…when we make sweeping generalities like this we are uncharitable to those who aborted pregnancy without full knowledge or willful consent, by dumping undue guilt onto self-guilt they are already enendurily
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Many abortions are not even mortal sins? Please tell me you are joking.

And, no, a forced abortion does not constitute sin on the mother, but most abortions are done with the consent of the mother.
 
Regina,
You have to read between the lines here. Please answer me this one question and explain your answer. Do you feel as a Catholic that marriage is a privileged right?
 
morbe77 said:
Regina,
You have to read between the lines here. Please answer me this one question and explain your answer. Do you feel as a Catholic that marriage is a privileged right?
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Sorry- I’m seriously not good at reading between the lines.

Marriage is a sacrament. However, In the eyes of government, government sanctions something that is beneficial to society as a whole. Marriage is beneficial to society in general as these unions often produce children, who go on to contribute to society. As homosexual unions cannot naturally produce children, they have absolutely no benefit to society and therefore should not be sanctioned by government.
 
In brief

To be excommunicated is to not be in communion with the Bishop of Rome

To be in communion with the Bishop of Rome, one must submit to him on all matters of faith or morality.

Marriage is an matter of faith and morality

To disagree with the Bishop of Rome on any article of either faith or morality is to be a schismatic, in mortal sin, not in communion and incurs Latae sententiae (automatic self-excommunication) according to canon law 1364

vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P52.HTM.

I find it a curious paradox that most Catholics actually don’t follow the canon but these are the rules.
 
I too believe that it is a Holy Matrimony. Congrats! That was the phrase I was looking for. In order to be a valid marriage certain criteria have to be met. And because same sex marriages will NEVER meet any of this criteria. Is it really a marriage? No, its not. Therefore it will NEVER be a valid marriage. No church, priest, preacher, or minister in their right mind would accept it and marry a same sex couple. You mentioned civil-unions, perfect! Civil-Union is still not a marriage.
You paraphrased the Church’s view point on why same-sex marriages are unproductive to society and I 100% agree. Let’s face it homosexuality exists in our society and it always will. Allowing the gay and lesbian community the opportunity to receive a piece of paper that means absolutely nothing in my opinion will not breakdown the moral threads of society nor do I think that all our children will become gay over night. Were talking about the a state giving away a piece of paper, doesn’t matter if its on fancy court paper or tissue paper it holds the same weight in my honest opinion. If the presiding official is not a man of the cloth in any religion founded on the laws of God and the teachings of Christ then it means nothing to me.
If it helps them get better insurance rates good, but if it gives them favor in the Church, then I have problems.
Lets talk about fair treatment now. If a same sex couple came to me and said with a JOP marriage license and said “look we are married” I would let them know that the state recognizes their marriage, not God. And I would say the same for a heterosexual couple with the same JOP paperwork. You see regardless of what the State allows at the end of the day only God can join a couple in Holy Matrimony not the State.
 
What you are missing Morbe77 is that a “piece of paper” equals on some level recognition that a same sex relationship can be worthy of the same privileges of that of a Catholic sacramental marriage in the eyes of the law, that according to Catholic teaching is not merely grave public scandal but also nothing short of blasphemy.

It’s also a situation that needs to be discouraged if not actively purged from society, no room can be given to error as it goes.
 
morbe77 said:
Do you feel as a Catholic that marriage is a privileged right?
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Absolutely. The Faithful have the right to the Sacraments of the Church. It is our most fundamental right as Catholics.

But that doesn’t mean we get to dictate the terms of the Sacraments. If a man wants to “marry” his horse, don’t expect the Church to perform the ceremony.
 
Cake or Death if what your posting is true then I will attend confession as soon as possible, speak to a priest privately about the matter and change my personal stance to one based more on faith.
Thank you. Never once were my intentions were to offend God but to try to get along with everyone.
 
morbe77 said:
Cake or Death if what your posting is true then I will attend confession as soon as possible, speak to a priest privately about the matter and change my personal stance to one based more on faith.
Thank you. Never once were my intentions were to offend God but to try to get along with everyone.
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My pleasure…I think 😃 As much as this is why the Catholic Church campaigns so aggressively against the Same Sex Marriage movement it’s not actually something I personally agree with…So I do feel a bit odd about me parroting this 😊

Anyway…If it is any reassurance for you if you honestly didn’t know you’re not considered by the Catholic Church to be in mortal sin either 🙂 Grave sin requires full knowledge, which you didn’t have.
 
Neofight said:
This is far too general a statement…[snip]…any statement that claims abortion results in automatic excommunication needs qualification…
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I understand what you are saying, but I did qualify it. I posted a link to a CA thread/answer that directly quotes Church doctrine:
ahs said:
Supporting same-sex “Marriage” does not, that I am aware, lead to automatic excommunication. [Abortion does.]

That having been said, I think you are approaching this the wrong way. Sin is sin, no matter what name we give it. Supporting sin is supporting sin, no matter what name we give it. Being of an opinion that supports sin is still…[do you see the point?].

This (click the following link) was provided by CA Apologist Peggy Frye some time ago, and tells you exactly which offenses are excommunicable:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=313534&postcount=2
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^See the link above? I bolded the preface to it that I had written originally.
 
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m not sure that only having an opinion in support of same-sex marriage would be excommunicable, or a grave matter.

If one were to be an activist or politician supporting same-sex marriage, THEN it would be.

Yes? No?
 
Well I am no activist by any stretch of the imagination, but I have openly expressed my opinion as I did here in this forum. I know that I wasn’t fully standing with the church in this matter, because I was looking at it from a viewpoint of separation of Church and state. I also never spoke or took a stance against the Church. I never said the Church was wrong or outdated, nor have I negatively expressed dissatisfaction with the teachings of the Catholic Church. I love the Church and what it stands for I thought I had found a loophole where everyone could be happy and we could all live in peace and harmony. I guess I get a little upset when I see people utilizing any religion to justify hatred towards other human beings.
 
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