Is Tai Chi forbidden?

[thomfra]

Active worship or not doesn’t matter. It is what it is and it is idol worship. You’re mimicking the postures of the hindu gods, and these postures are acts of worship. They are not just mere workout techniques ( though that’s what they’ve been rehashed and served as in america so fitness people gobble it up), they are ritualistic worship and thinking of them as just mere exercises doesn’t change what they are. If they were and it did, this wouldn’t be an issue and she probably wouldn’t have asked any questions. It bothers her for a reason, reason enough to ask. You cannot seperate what you are doing physically from the spiritual element. Whether your conscious mind is engaging in the idol worship or not is irrelevant, your body is entertaining it. It would be like flipping me off, knowing your flipping me off and then telling me you didn’t mean to flip me off and that you were just exercising your middle finger. The fact is, you flipped me off and you chose to do so, for whatever benefit it might have had to your finger.

The point is, where your mind is doesn’t matter. Your actions are speaking louder, and in the case of yoga, they’re not just mindless body movements that have no purpose other than to exercise you. These movements and postures have an expressed purpose and design of worshiping the deities they belong to. It’s why yoga exists in the first place- to commune with the hindu gods and seek oneness with them. Yoga is prayer taken a step further. Unfortunately, it’s pagan and we’re not pagans here (at least the persons this issue concerns anyways). It’s contradictory to think you can do yoga and not be engaging in idol worship just because you don’t acknowledge it as such. That would be like praying a rosary and sinning at the same time thinking that by focusing on the rosary the sin doesn’t matter as much or at all. It’s self-deception and it just doesn’t work.

First of all, how can you “commune with hindu gods” if you don’t believe that they exist?

If **you **know you are not worshipping any false gods, and have no intention of does this, and **god **knows you are not worshipping false gods there is no problem. Do you think God really doesn’t know the difference? Do you think God gets his wires crossed?

If you find a religion that worships a god by doing push ups and sit ups you stop doing that as well?

Final comment to the OP. Yoga will improve your flexibilty, balance and strength. But if you want to get rid of a few pounds you really need to do some exercise that gets the heart pumping. There is no way around that I’m afraid. But a good cardio workout is addictive when you have done it often enough! You can’t beat it!

 

[The_Otaku]

First of all, how can you “commune with hindu gods” if you don’t believe that they exist?

Simple. Because they exist whether you believe they exist or not. Just as God is a constant, so are the demons whom take the forms of these idols and deities. Since Christians believe in demons and unclean spirits, it is not a stretch to believe there are demons in the form of false gods and idols and that they do this and have done this throughout human history to lead people into paganism. The believe or disbelief of the demons does not erase them from existence, it merely shifts your attention off of them, which is exactly what they would want.

If **you **know you are not worshipping any false gods, and have no intention of does this, and **god **knows you are not worshipping false gods there is no problem. Do you think God really doesn’t know the difference? Do you think God gets his wires crossed?

The postures of yoga ARE the worship, the art of worshiping with the body and using it, as opposed to strictly your mind or spiritual senses, to do that. God knows that you know that you’re engaging in this behavior, so there is no confusion for God or for the person. That person would know what they are doing because of the knowledge they possess in doing so- that it is pagan and there is no way to alter or change it at base. They will either perform the exercises knowing the truth or will rebuke them and find some other way. No amount of masking it under other pretexts will change what it inherently is- pagan behavior. God sees why you’re doing it- to get healthier, feel better, etc., but on the same token He knows just as well as you do that fitness can be found elsewhere and in a form that is not convoluted and meshed with religion- religion that is not of HIM. He cannot force your hand, and how easy it is to go with something because it feels good and has a benefit. The trial is in seeing the bad there is that cannot be removed, and, after judging it as a whole, deciding to find another means of exercise, since that is what the goal was to begin with, not idol worship. In realizing this, the logic would be to find an exercise that isn’t pagan.

To CHOOSE to do something you know is mixed up with some bad stuff carries a weight to it that will not go away no matter how it’s rationalized away.

If you find a religion that worships a god by doing push ups and sit ups you stop doing that as well?

No, since push ups will have already existed without religious meaning elsewhere and outside of said religion and so doing push ups wouldn’t be an issue so long as they weren’t the push ups from that religion. Yoga is an issue because it exists first and foremost as a mode of prayer to the idols. If yoga exercises predated the religious implementation, it would be fine, but yoga wasn’t created that way and was always spiritual. That’s why it’s a conflict of interests for Christians- we want to take care of ourselves, but not engage in idolatry.

 

[thomfra]

Simple. Because they exist whether you believe they exist or not. Just as God is a constant, so are the demons whom take the forms of these idols and deities. Since Christians believe in demons and unclean spirits, it is not a stretch to believe there are demons in the form of false gods and idols and that they do this and have done this throughout human history to lead people into paganism. The believe or disbelief of the demons does not erase them from existence, it merely shifts your attention off of them, which is exactly what they would want.

The postures of yoga ARE the worship, the art of worshiping with the body and using it, as opposed to strictly your mind or spiritual senses, to do that. God knows that you know that you’re engaging in this behavior, so there is no confusion for God or for the person. That person would know what they are doing because of the knowledge they possess in doing so- that it is pagan and there is no way to alter or change it at base. They will either perform the exercises knowing the truth or will rebuke them and find some other way. No amount of masking it under other pretexts will change what it inherently is- pagan behavior.

To CHOOSE to do something you know is mixed up with some bad stuff carries a weight to it that will not go away no matter how it’s rationalized away.

Devils, demons, blah. I’ve never heard such rubbish. No amount of waving of the arms, and stretching of the legs is going to “call on demons”. You have seen one too many B-grade horror movies.

I would suggest one would have to have a very weak faith to begin with if yoga made you suddenly “worship demons” as you put it.

Here’s a link to a Catholic priest who practices yoga. People are discovering the Catholic faith at his classes.

catholic.org/international/international_story.php?id=19107

 

[westboro]

Devils, demons, blah. I’ve never heard such rubbish. No amount of waving of the arms, and stretching of the legs is going to “call on demons”. You have seen one too many B-grade horror movies.

I would suggest one would have to have a very weak faith to begin with if yoga made you suddenly “worship demons” as you put it.

Here’s a link to a Catholic priest who practices yoga. People are discovering the Catholic faith at his classes.

catholic.org/international/international_story.php?id=19107

Anyone who does not believe in the existence of the devil and demons are already under their influence by virtue of that fact. The devil, who can only mimic God says “I am not” whereas God says “I am”. Satan loves it when people deny his existence because it gives him an open playing field.
Also, it is much better to have a ‘weak’ faith, than no faith at all, which is apparently your situation.
Finally, not all Catholic Priests follow the teachings and doctrines of the church. If you look long enough, you will find one that will agree with whatever you want to believe. There is ONLY one truth…His name is Jesus. May you find Him soon!!!

 

[thomfra]

Also, it is much better to have a ‘weak’ faith, than no faith at all, which is apparently your situation.

What do you base this on?

 

[westboro]

What do you base this on?

I will assume you have difficulty understanding what you read. No other explanation would make any sense of this question. I will try to say it as clearly as possible… it is plain and simple…deny the existence of the devil…you subsequently, automatically deny the existence of God, WHO created the being who became the devil. While it is true that you may have faith in ‘something’ or someone…it is definitely NOT in the God of our Catholic faith. Therefore your posts, comments and opinions really don’t matter.
Anyone seeking ‘good’ Catholic advice should be very careful with your offerings. I suggest you find a non-Catholic website to ‘sew’ your seeds. They may ‘take’ somewhere else!

 

[thomfra]

I will assume you have difficulty understanding what you read. No other explanation would make any sense of this question. I will try to say it as clearly as possible… it is plain and simple…deny the existence of the devil…you subsequently, automatically deny the existence of God, WHO created the being who became the devil. While it is true that you may have faith in ‘something’ or someone…it is definitely NOT in the God of our Catholic faith. Therefore your posts, comments and opinions really don’t matter.
Anyone seeking ‘good’ Catholic advice should be very careful with your offerings. I suggest you find a non-Catholic website to ‘sew’ your seeds. They may ‘take’ somewhere else!

As you can see from my post, I used the quote function to highlight which sentence in your post I was questioning. Perhaps you could answer more specifically. Please remember to take 10 deep breaths before you write, and then re-read your posts to ensure that they do not contain any uncharitable remarks.

I too have been guilty of this in the past. So I am happy to forgive you for a post which was obviously written in frustration. It can be very easy to become judgemental when presented with ideas which do not fit one’s own view of the world or beliefs in how it should be.

You may have your opinions about matters of faith. I too may have mine. This, you see is why the forums are called “discussion forums”. They are not forums where individual posters are given carte blanche to decide the nature of advice given. Nor are they forums where any one individual (apart from the moderator) is entitled to decide who is authorized to post.

 

[westboro]

As you can see from my post, I used the quote function to highlight which sentence in your post I was questioning. Perhaps you could answer more specifically. Please remember to take 10 deep breaths before you write, and then re-read your posts to ensure that they do not contain any uncharitable remarks.

I too have been guilty of this in the past. So I am happy to forgive you for a post which was obviously written in frustration. It can be very easy to become judgemental when presented with ideas which do not fit one’s own view of the world or beliefs in how it should be.

You may have your opinions about matters of faith. I too may have mine. This, you see is why the forums are called “discussion forums”. They are not forums where individual posters are given carte blanche to decide the nature of advice given. Nor are they forums where any one individual (apart from the moderator) is entitled to decide who is authorized to post.

Do you even see the words ‘CATHOLIC ANSWERS’ at the top of the page? I need no further defense!!!

 

[thomfra]

Do you even see the words ‘CATHOLIC ANSWERS’ at the top of the page? I need no further defense!!!

Notice also that it is not

“Westboro’s Catholic Answers”.

We are not school children. One can not come to such a forum and say “I am more/a better Catholic than you”. It’s childish in the extreme.

 

[dianaballein]

It is GREATLY upsetting me that my posting is now being used to perpetuate anger and hatred (yes hatred).

 

[thomfra]

It is GREATLY upsetting me that my posting is now being used to perpetuate anger and hatred (yes hatred).

I woudn’t get too upset. It’s just the internet.

Anyway - have you decided how you are going to get back in shape. Just remember. You need some cardio as well as some “core stength” training.

Have you even been to a sight called “map my run”. It’s great. You can map out runs (or walks, or rides) in your area (all the street maps are in there), and then log them on a training log. It’s free. Just go to mapmyrun.com. Who knows, maybe you can train for a marathon one day!!! (walking **or **running).

 

[dianaballein]

I don’t run. lol It’s not enjoyable for me AT ALL. That is why I was trying to find something unique and low impact (I have torn cartilage in my right knee from a hiking fall). I live in a very hilly area, so if I walk, it’s better if I drive closer to the water, and biking doesn’t work either. I play tennis occasionally but I think I will just start some good old fashioned exercises at home and get back into walking, but not go full bore right away. That is my problem…I get the mentality of Go Big or Go Home, and then I end up hurting so badly afterward I get discouraged.

And yes, internet or no internet, it is still incredibly disconcerting to see grown ups lashing out at each other so miserably. It gives Catholics a bad name to those who aren’t, for one…and I would rather allow everyone to give me their opinion and then I, as the educated adult, will take what I need and use my intelligence to weed out what would not be a good path for me.

 

[westboro]

I’m not sure why everyone is thinking I am going to blindly begin to follow Eastern Religion. I am studying to be a Catholic. This is my path, and where I want to be. I have a strong enough presence of mind and self not to be blindly led astray.

In any event, I asked my question because I received such a reaction from a dear Catholic friend and I guess I never thought of Tai Chi or Yoga as being a possible negative, but I see now how it could be frowned upon.

Having been a life long Catholic, one of the things that I ‘use’ to say is that I too had a ‘strong enough presence of mind and self not to be blindly led astray’. Then I got led astray. That ‘detour’ lasted many years!!! Very painful ones at that!! Your statement that you are ‘studying’ to be Catholic is what has brought about the ‘anger’ and/or ‘hatred’ you describe. It seems you happened upon a war-zone. Bear in mind one very basic truth about the Catholic religion…and that is it is the most hated religion of all…by Satan. He will employ every effort to bring down a Catholic…(even more so someone studying to be Catholic) particularly by ‘dressing’ like a sheep in order to ‘look’ harmless, though in reality he is a wolf about to devour his prey. Having been down a very difficult path in life, I no longer say that I cannot be led astray. I pray very hard and embrace my ‘true’ religion which keeps me from being led astray. Your journey toward the Catholic religion is going to take you ‘uphill’ on a ‘narrow’ ‘rocky’ path… which is how Jesus described it. Your good Catholic friend sounds like someone you can trust and who can help you avoid the pitfalls. Stick to ‘genuine’ Catholic teaching and you won’t be misled unknowingly as I was. Don’t underestimate the cunning and baffling power of the devil, who by the way has a superior intellect than ours. We need to recognize our vulnerability and turn to Jesus Who ‘broke’ Satan’s power through His death and Resurrection! Remember that the ‘secret’ to being a strong Catholic and staying on track is the Blessed Mother. Turn to her and your journey toward Jesus will be assured! Don’t let all this ‘war’ stuff (anger) get to you. Jesus said “I did not come to bring peace…but division”. Stay focused on the ultimate goal, which is union with God in heaven for all eternity. That is where we can all expect ‘total’ peace and happiness. Jesus made that promise!

 

[Ted_in_Charlott]

Thank you all for the advice and insight. So, is there anything you can recommend for a middle aged woman who is not the most athletic that I can do, other than walking (boring) and biking (can’t stand it)? I want to feel good, energetic, regain some flexibility, etc.,

I would recommend Taekwondo. We have a class in Charlotte that has older adults in the evenings (40+). While any exercise has the possibility of causing injury, a good class would have a good warming up followed by stretching then working on your techniques.

Martial arts are also a good way to get motivated to exercise outside of class so you may achieve more in class. If you know you have a test or a tournament coming up, you are more willing to go out and ride a bike to get the pounds off. Also, belt promotion is a great way for others to see your progress. I have seen miracles in some people as to what a martial art can do for them. Sure, you will wake up some mornings and your shoulder may hurt a little, or your legs may be tired.

 

[Ted_in_Charlott]

And yes, internet or no internet, it is still incredibly disconcerting to see grown ups lashing out at each other so miserably. It gives Catholics a bad name to those who aren’t, for one…and I would rather allow everyone to give me their opinion and then I, as the educated adult, will take what I need and use my intelligence to weed out what would not be a good path for me.

These forums tend to do that. Seems to me that intellictuals like us that question things and don’t just go out and believe whatever some of the “exspurts” here spout makes people uncomfortable.

As to the joint issues you have, I like some of the Asian ointments. “Snake bone oil” and “Tiger Balm ointment” help me alot. Try going to an Asain grocery and asking around, they may have something that will help you. After a work out, take a warm shower, then use these items and it will help loosten up the tightness. I used to have knee issues and they are alot better after TKD and proper stretching.

If you look here, forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=261522

Michael runs a very positive thread that responsible health conscience Catholics contribute.

Good luck to you.

 

[dianaballein]

This is a wonderful thread link, thank you Ted!

As for your statement about intellectuals, that made me giggle a little. I see threads asking if it’s a sin to be arguing faith or “what is worse…sinners or the religious righteous”…and then I see articulate, well meaning folks going at each other with very little respect. It can be confusing, although I understand what can happen when one is passionate about something and someone comes and tries to dismiss it.

 

[thomfra]

Having been a life long Catholic, one of the things that I ‘use’ to say is that I too had a ‘strong enough presence of mind and self not to be blindly led astray’. Then I got led astray. That ‘detour’ lasted many years!!! Very painful ones at that!! Your statement that you are ‘studying’ to be Catholic is what has brought about the ‘anger’ and/or ‘hatred’ you describe. It seems you happened upon a war-zone. Bear in mind one very basic truth about the Catholic religion…and that is it is the most hated religion of all…by Satan. He will employ every effort to bring down a Catholic…(even more so someone studying to be Catholic) particularly by ‘dressing’ like a sheep in order to ‘look’ harmless, though in reality he is a wolf about to devour his prey. Having been down a very difficult path in life, I no longer say that I cannot be led astray. I pray very hard and embrace my ‘true’ religion which keeps me from being led astray. Your journey toward the Catholic religion is going to take you ‘uphill’ on a ‘narrow’ ‘rocky’ path… which is how Jesus described it. Your good Catholic friend sounds like someone you can trust and who can help you avoid the pitfalls. Stick to ‘genuine’ Catholic teaching and you won’t be misled unknowingly as I was. Don’t underestimate the cunning and baffling power of the devil, who by the way has a superior intellect than ours. We need to recognize our vulnerability and turn to Jesus Who ‘broke’ Satan’s power through His death and Resurrection! Remember that the ‘secret’ to being a strong Catholic and staying on track is the Blessed Mother. Turn to her and your journey toward Jesus will be assured! Don’t let all this ‘war’ stuff (anger) get to you. Jesus said “I did not come to bring peace…but division”. Stay focused on the ultimate goal, which is union with God in heaven for all eternity. That is where we can all expect ‘total’ peace and happiness. Jesus made that promise!

yes, but does the devil do yoga? Personally I’ve always though of him as more of a badminton type…

 

[thomfra]

These forums tend to do that. Seems to me that intellictuals like us that question things and don’t just go out and believe whatever some of the “exspurts” here spout makes people uncomfortable.

As to the joint issues you have, I like some of the Asian ointments. “Snake bone oil” and “Tiger Balm ointment” help me alot. Try going to an Asain grocery and asking around, they may have something that will help you. After a work out, take a warm shower, then use these items and it will help loosten up the tightness. I used to have knee issues and they are alot better after TKD and proper stretching.

If you look here, forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=261522

Michael runs a very positive thread that responsible health conscience Catholics contribute.

Good luck to you.

Yes, tigerbalm is great stuff. I used it on stiff knees. Just keep it away from your eyes!!!