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Pag_Hingowa
Guest
Any thoughts anyone?
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Texsain
Guest
Why must it be either/or?
Isn’t a siren by the water or a succubus in my dreams equally tempting? And can’t I resist both if my will is strong enough?
Isn’t a siren by the water or a succubus in my dreams equally tempting? And can’t I resist both if my will is strong enough?
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cho_pilo
Guest
Because I want to know if I have been fighting in the right boxing ring. By “internal”, the arena of the fight is inside us.
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JRKH
Guest
In my view, temptation is always internal.
Temptation might be “healthy” - I’m tempted to eat because I’m hungry.
Temptation might be “unhealthy” - I’m tempted to eat because I’m sad.
Both “Temptations” are internal - the food itself is neutral.
Likewise with temptation to sin. In the vast majority of instances the external stimuli is objectively neutral. It is our internal response to that stimuli that determines whether something is a temptation or not.
Of course there are many and varied nuances in this…
Peace
James
Temptation might be “healthy” - I’m tempted to eat because I’m hungry.
Temptation might be “unhealthy” - I’m tempted to eat because I’m sad.
Both “Temptations” are internal - the food itself is neutral.
Likewise with temptation to sin. In the vast majority of instances the external stimuli is objectively neutral. It is our internal response to that stimuli that determines whether something is a temptation or not.
Of course there are many and varied nuances in this…
Peace
James
meltzerboy
New member
I think your example of food is a good one. However, in this instance, it seems to me the temptation is BOTH internal and external. The food may have a particularly wonderful aroma which entices you by activating your hunger drive. The food serves as a stimulus. On the other hand, even though you may be hungry, you refrain from eating a particular food which does not appeal to you. Therefore I believe there is an interplay between internal temptation and external temptation, rather than an either-or situation. There are external stimuli and internal drives.
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Stumblesalot
Guest
Hi,
Of course Satan will try to lead us into temptation; often using other individuals, promise of wealth or status etc. for this purpose. This may imply an external problem. However, we choose via the free will gifted to us by God whether or not to succumb to such temptation. This may imply an internal problem/struggle. I would suggest it is a combination of the two. For instance, suppose a beautiful woman succumbs to the temptations of the material world. Under the impression that dressing scantily will enhance her probability of fame, a glamorous life and wealth etc. she does so. She then passes you in the street. As a man, you cannot help but notice the woman. The temptation then is to continue to observe her in a lustful fashion. However, by your own free will, after noticing the woman you can choose to immediately look away and turn your attention to prayer or some other constructive activity in order to avoid any lustful thoughts. Does that make any sense ha ha?
God bless
Of course Satan will try to lead us into temptation; often using other individuals, promise of wealth or status etc. for this purpose. This may imply an external problem. However, we choose via the free will gifted to us by God whether or not to succumb to such temptation. This may imply an internal problem/struggle. I would suggest it is a combination of the two. For instance, suppose a beautiful woman succumbs to the temptations of the material world. Under the impression that dressing scantily will enhance her probability of fame, a glamorous life and wealth etc. she does so. She then passes you in the street. As a man, you cannot help but notice the woman. The temptation then is to continue to observe her in a lustful fashion. However, by your own free will, after noticing the woman you can choose to immediately look away and turn your attention to prayer or some other constructive activity in order to avoid any lustful thoughts. Does that make any sense ha ha?
God bless
S
St_Francis
Guest
The Church teaches that temptations have one (or more) of three sources: ourselves, the world, the devil.
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JRKH
Guest
Very good points. But would you agree that, from the perspective of sin, there is a difference between “Stimuli” and “Temptation”…The Aroma is a “Stimuli” but my (internal) desire for it “tempts” me.
Likewise, with a food you don’t particularly like, you might choose to eat is because you know it is good for you even though the “stimuli” is not particularly pleasant to you.
As I said though - I don’t think that we can draw any clear “lines” around these things. There are many interactions.
However, since it is our job to “resist temptation”, obviously an internal function, it is logical to assume that the thing we are resisting is also an internal. something stimulated by an external yes, but created internally.
As another, fairly classic, example…Take a native culture where everyone is virtually nude. No one thinks anything of it, it’s just normal. An outsider comes in and is instantly aroused and stimulated by all this nudity. The “Stimulus” (nudity) has not changed. The internal response - is different…
And before anyone else points it out…Of course spontaneous arousal is not automatically equal sinful lust…But the image is applicable to the idea that there is a difference between external stimulus (basically neutral) and internal response (potentially sinful).
Peace
James
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JRKH
Guest
Lets consider these then.
- The Devil - an external. I surely can’t control what the devil is going to do
- The World - another external. I can perhaps control this to some small extent, but only in a very small and limited way.
- Ourselves - The internal…and the one and only thing that I can have any real significant control over…(by the Grace of God)
Peace
James
meltzerboy
New member
I agree that our perceptions and interpretations of external stimuli are conditioned by our culture, society, family, peers, and so on. In this sense, the stimuli are neutral, while our perceptions and interpretations of them are not. We go beyond the stimuli given due to our prior experiences, motivations, and expectations surrounding them. Still, due to the conditioning or learning process which is based on our sociocultural environment, I’m not entirely convinced that what we are resisting is “created” internally, because although we are resisting our internal temptations of stimuli, those same temptations are shaped by our external environment (culture, society, family).
J
JRKH
Guest
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Pag_Hingowa
Guest
Therefore, it is safe to say that all these temptations are totally powerless if they don’t have allies working within you.
Thanks for all the responses. :sad_bye:
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shoe
Guest
I think that temptation can come from both an external source and an internal source; that is to say, sometimes temptation outside a person can tempt the inward desires of a person to go contrary to conscience, understanding, and intellect. The Bible says, “Rather, each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire” (James 1:14). The luring part comes from the external source, which pulls us away from God; and the desiring comes from the internal source, which draws us away.
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JRKH
Guest
I like this.
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JamesAquinas
Guest
I’d argue that temptation is more an internal problem than an external problem.
While temptations have external origins, these origins are often not intrinsically evil. Let’s take the example of wonderful smelling food. It’s only when you at like a glutton when an evil is committed. The food isn’t evil; the way you respond to it is.
Without a conscious observer, external objects are simply what they are: mere objects. The impression of the object on the mind is the temptation.
Isn’t this what Jesus meant when he said “it is not what goes into a person that makes him unclean, but what comes out of a person.”?
While temptations have external origins, these origins are often not intrinsically evil. Let’s take the example of wonderful smelling food. It’s only when you at like a glutton when an evil is committed. The food isn’t evil; the way you respond to it is.
Without a conscious observer, external objects are simply what they are: mere objects. The impression of the object on the mind is the temptation.
Isn’t this what Jesus meant when he said “it is not what goes into a person that makes him unclean, but what comes out of a person.”?
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