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bbobrzynski
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Is the accumulation of wealth, i.e. buying things you realy dont need, a sin?
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Eileen_T
Guest
“Blessed are the poor in spirit for the kingdom of heaven is theirs.”
I am richer than almost everyone I know, because there are no material possessions I want that I do not have.
I have shelter, clothes to wear, clean water to drink, electricity, indoor plumbing, food to eat.
On the day I stopped envying people who had more material possessions than I had, that was the day I became a wealthy person.
Where a man’s heart is, there his treasure shall be. Thieves could come in and steal every possession I have, yet I would still be rich because my material posessions are not my wealth.
I am richer than almost everyone I know, because there are no material possessions I want that I do not have.
I have shelter, clothes to wear, clean water to drink, electricity, indoor plumbing, food to eat.
On the day I stopped envying people who had more material possessions than I had, that was the day I became a wealthy person.
Where a man’s heart is, there his treasure shall be. Thieves could come in and steal every possession I have, yet I would still be rich because my material posessions are not my wealth.
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Paul_Folbrecht
Guest
Eileen,
Very nice post, but I don’t think you answered his question.
Christ told the rich man that he could get to Heaven by basically following the Commandments but that if he wanted to be “perfect” he should live in poverty. Less than perfection and committing sin aren’t the same thing.
I struggle with this issue because I am well-off. I envy no one and am EXTREMELY thankful to God for all I have. And I recognize I could lose it all in an instant if that was His will!
But the thing is I do possess some definite luxuries that I don’t need. My car is a used BMW worth about $30,000. I have a $15,000 stereo system because I love music. Music is not an evil, of course - it is a pleasure that can be good. Of course, self-denial can also be good. One of the forms of self-denial I practice for penance sometimes is no music when I’m home.
I also give money generously and volunteer. And keep my feet on the ground. And I don’t have a big house and would NEVER, EVER want to “have things” to impress anyone or anything of that sort!
Would I be “better” in the sense of accumulating grace if I sold that stereo and gave all the money away? Hard to argue otherwise. Am I sinning by not doing so? Not the case. But if someone would like to express an opinion to the contrary, I won’t be offended.
(But let’s not take it down a tangent on whether this $15K system sounds better than cheaper stuff. It does - absolutely - and believe it or not this is nowhere near the high-end of this hobby.)
God bless,
Paul
Very nice post, but I don’t think you answered his question.
Christ told the rich man that he could get to Heaven by basically following the Commandments but that if he wanted to be “perfect” he should live in poverty. Less than perfection and committing sin aren’t the same thing.
I struggle with this issue because I am well-off. I envy no one and am EXTREMELY thankful to God for all I have. And I recognize I could lose it all in an instant if that was His will!
But the thing is I do possess some definite luxuries that I don’t need. My car is a used BMW worth about $30,000. I have a $15,000 stereo system because I love music. Music is not an evil, of course - it is a pleasure that can be good. Of course, self-denial can also be good. One of the forms of self-denial I practice for penance sometimes is no music when I’m home.
I also give money generously and volunteer. And keep my feet on the ground. And I don’t have a big house and would NEVER, EVER want to “have things” to impress anyone or anything of that sort!
Would I be “better” in the sense of accumulating grace if I sold that stereo and gave all the money away? Hard to argue otherwise. Am I sinning by not doing so? Not the case. But if someone would like to express an opinion to the contrary, I won’t be offended.
(But let’s not take it down a tangent on whether this $15K system sounds better than cheaper stuff. It does - absolutely - and believe it or not this is nowhere near the high-end of this hobby.)
God bless,
Paul
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trogiah
Guest
“Money is the root of all evil” is a frequently mis-stated quote of St. Paul who actually said “The love of money is the root of all evil.”
Having wealth is not a sin if it was not acquired unjustly and if we give due thanks to God.
Given that many of us live in a world that is filled with material “wealth”, the question you ask is very important. The Scripture quote that more and more seems to express the right approach to “wealth” is the saying of Jesus after the story of the dishonest steward.
“What I tell you is this, make friends for yourselves through the use of this world’s wealth so that when it (the wealth) fails you, a lasting reception will be yours”
If you can freely share what you have and always know that nothing we “own” will last forever then you still keeping within God’s teachings. Also, if you are spending that much money on things then somebody else must be earning gainful employment - which doesn’t generally seem like a bad thing.
It is worth keeping in mind that there is a greater purpose to living that we may, in this lifetime, be called to. Don’t let worldly concerns, like the brambles that kept the good seed from bearing fruit, keep you from hearing that call,
peace
Jim
Having wealth is not a sin if it was not acquired unjustly and if we give due thanks to God.
Given that many of us live in a world that is filled with material “wealth”, the question you ask is very important. The Scripture quote that more and more seems to express the right approach to “wealth” is the saying of Jesus after the story of the dishonest steward.
“What I tell you is this, make friends for yourselves through the use of this world’s wealth so that when it (the wealth) fails you, a lasting reception will be yours”
If you can freely share what you have and always know that nothing we “own” will last forever then you still keeping within God’s teachings. Also, if you are spending that much money on things then somebody else must be earning gainful employment - which doesn’t generally seem like a bad thing.
It is worth keeping in mind that there is a greater purpose to living that we may, in this lifetime, be called to. Don’t let worldly concerns, like the brambles that kept the good seed from bearing fruit, keep you from hearing that call,
peace
Jim
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T.A.Stobie_SFO
Guest
You will be accountable for what you do with what you have been given.
Is buying things you not need a sin? No, but choosing not to spend to help your neighbor is when you have then means.
If immoral means are used to acquire wealth, then the acquiring of wealth is immoral, even if the wealth would be used to do good.
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Denise_Shae
Guest
Well, here’s my two-cents for what it’s worth: I don’t think it’s a sin as long as you don’t cling to material possessions and make them into little “gods”.
I buy things I don’t need. IE, books, DVD’s, etc. I saved up to purchase a laptop, even though we have a desktop computer, but I wanted the laptop so I could listen to audio files and access the internet w/out having to be confined to one room. Not to mention the fact that my kids hog the main computer every chance they get.
However, if something happened to my laptop, even though I wouldn’t be too happy about it, it wouldn’t devistate me.
While I enjoy the extras, I make it a point not to “cling” or get attached to them.
I think that’s where “sin” would come in.
If I’m incorrect, someone please let me know?
Thanks and God Bless!
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vince2paul
Guest
I agree with you. Jesus taught us to be detached from our possession, because sometimes we tend to cling to it. In the parable He used rich young man, I think because it’s easier as he can get anything he wants.
I believe many things are created for our own comfort. There are things that we don’t need, but if we things it would do us good, why not? After all, we also indirectly help others (the workers, etc)
Simple example is air-con. There are air-con in many churches, do we need it? I don’t think so, but it’s there because it is for our good (though I often feel cold when I attend mass in the church)
.So buying things that we don’t really need isn’t a sin as long as we don’t get attached to it and we still give appropriate amount of money to help others.
Of course spending money excessively would be a sin.
Just my 2 cents.
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Magicsilence
Guest
Everyone will slam me for saying this, but…
Christ was adamant that for treasure in heaven the man had to sell all he had and give it to the poor.
Therefore having a $15K sound system is definitely over the top.
Having a car that RUNS however, is different, since it is normally necessary.
Having a laptop because your kids use your home pc all the time is not wrong.
Having one so you can lounge around on the sofa is wrong, imho. (I say that lying upstairs on my BED, writing this, but… I bought my laptop before I reverted to the faith (well, during actually, but i needed one for university anyway, so Im only mildly hypocritical
)).I would say that honestly, its not the things people mind giving up, its the comfort that they get from them.
So, if a rich man has ten cars, and sells 9 of them, then he won’t be too sad cause you can only sit in one at a time.
But, if Christ told him to sell all of them, then he would be sad, because the comfort of driving would be lost.
Accumulating wealth has no purpose. Storing up for a pension? Trust in God. Need to buy a new car? Trust in God. Mortgage payments due? Trust in God.
At least, thats pretty much what the disciples preached.
Peace and God Bless!
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HailMary
Guest
that would be vanity I believe
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Denise_Shae
Guest
Everyone will slam me for saying this, but…
Christ was adamant that for treasure in heaven the man had to sell all he had and give it to the poor.
Therefore having a $15K sound system is definitely over the top.
Having a car that RUNS however, is different, since it is normally necessary.
Having a laptop because your kids use your home pc all the time is not wrong.
Having one so you can lounge around on the sofa is wrong, imho. (I say that lying upstairs on my BED, writing this, but… I bought my laptop before I reverted to the faith (well, during actually, but i needed one for university anyway, so Im only mildly hypocritical
I would say that honestly, its not the things people mind giving up, its the comfort that they get from them.
So, if a rich man has ten cars, and sells 9 of them, then he won’t be too sad cause you can only sit in one at a time.
But, if Christ told him to sell all of them, then he would be sad, because the comfort of driving would be lost.
Accumulating wealth has no purpose. Storing up for a pension? Trust in God. Need to buy a new car? Trust in God. Mortgage payments due? Trust in God.
At least, thats pretty much what the disciples preached.
Peace and God Bless!
Having one so you can lounge around on the sofa is wrong, imho. (I say that lying upstairs on my BED, writing this, but… I bought my laptop before I reverted to the faith (well, during actually, but i needed one for university anyway, so Im only mildly hypocritical
In my case, I agree with you wholeheartedly.
But sometimes, I have no alternative but to lounge around. I’ve had Atypical Chronic Fatigue Syndrome for the past 12 years or so. (Although I believe I’ve had it much longer, but I only got a correct diagnosis about 12 years ago)
Sometimes the really bad episodes last for weeks and weeks.
My head gets so foggy, I can’t even put 2 and 2 together.
However, on days I do get spurts of energy, I take the laptop from room to room as I clean house, do laundry, etc.
This way, I get to listen to EWTN’s audio archives. Especially Fr. Groeschel’s Retreat Teachings, Mother Angelica’s Live Classics, Archbishop Sheen, etc. while I get my work done.
And no, I am not slamming you at all. I really do agree with you about buying it for the sole purpose of lying around all day.
God Bless!
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DonProfondo
Guest
No martyrs, here, please.
This was an evangelical counsel of poverty, not a commandment. Jesus was not telling the man that he would not otherwise have treasure in heaven, just more of it. That by giving up his earthly treasures, he would increasing whatever heavenly treasure he already had.
Trust in God, indeed. And where do you suppose those mortgage payments, car payments, and retirement capital come from? From the economic value-creation opportunities God places in front of us. “Trusting in God” doesn’t simply mean hoping that what we need will drop out of heaven and into our laps. Even if a sumptuous meal is placed before you, you still have to pick up a knife and fork and move the food from the plate to your mouth. And even if someone does THAT for you, you still have to chew.
Trust in God, certainly. But remember that He expects you to do your part. I think that it was Augustine who counseled us to “pray like it all depends on God, and work like it all depends on us.”
Trust in God means to ask Him to show us the opportunities He provides, and then to make the most fruitful use of them. And sometimes, that means earning a profit.
The disciples were commanded to set a radical example. They were itinerant preachers; they didn’t have families to raise.
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bilop
Guest
I don’t think that is quite what Christ is saying. If you look at the same story in Matthew:
It seems more clear that to enter heaven you need to keep the commandments, to be “perfect” you need to give up material things. Also, after saying that it was very hard for a rich man to enter heaven, he says that with God it is possible.
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mikemck
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No, wealth isn’t a sin. In fact, in the Bible, it’s seen as a sign of God’s favor.
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Durendin
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Could you throw it all away though, if you had to? Some people can, some wouldn’t.
I remember reading something from ages back about two “friends” laughing about their billionaire friend dying. “How much money did he leave?” asks one. “All of it!” replies the other.
Money has no worth.
I remember reading something from ages back about two “friends” laughing about their billionaire friend dying. “How much money did he leave?” asks one. “All of it!” replies the other.
Money has no worth.
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Paul_Folbrecht
Guest
Ok, so far one person has told me that my stereo is too expensive.
I forgot to mention one thing - I didn’t pay $15K - I buy everything used and scrounge for deals.
As for being attached - I can honestly say I’m not. I’m all about God… I go to daily Mass a lot. Whenever I can. Much spiritual reading, and daily rosary.
One factor is that I’m still single. When I have kids, I’ll have much less free time, I’m sure. Less time to listen.
So - I could give it up. In fact, sometimes, I feel I’d be even happier if I did. So why don’t I? I don’t know.
As for this particular monetary value, though - these things are, well, relative. To many, many people in the world, spending $1000 on a stereo would be seen as an unimaginable luxury, and that is very basic. (And as for the BMW - it is very, very safe to drive and I plan to drive it into the ground before I get another car - and I doubt I’ll ever have enough BMW.)
But enough about me and my personal situation. Some very good posts in this thread. Very good reading.
I forgot to mention one thing - I didn’t pay $15K - I buy everything used and scrounge for deals.
As for being attached - I can honestly say I’m not. I’m all about God… I go to daily Mass a lot. Whenever I can. Much spiritual reading, and daily rosary.
One factor is that I’m still single. When I have kids, I’ll have much less free time, I’m sure. Less time to listen.
So - I could give it up. In fact, sometimes, I feel I’d be even happier if I did. So why don’t I? I don’t know.
As for this particular monetary value, though - these things are, well, relative. To many, many people in the world, spending $1000 on a stereo would be seen as an unimaginable luxury, and that is very basic. (And as for the BMW - it is very, very safe to drive and I plan to drive it into the ground before I get another car - and I doubt I’ll ever have enough BMW.)
But enough about me and my personal situation. Some very good posts in this thread. Very good reading.
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thechrismyster
Guest
Frank Sinatra had more cash than all of us combined… it was also a little secret at the time that little things… like if a local Catholic grade school was having money problems suddenly someone in a suit would anonymously drop a check for 25,000 in the collection, or when a school in hoboken was having transportation issues, quietly and suddenly 3 or 4 brand new school buses would just appear in their school parking lot overnight…
things like this were being done by him constantly.
getting can be easy… giving can be hard.
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thechrismyster
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Christian stewardship would oblige you not to throw away what you’ve been given by God.
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Celtic_FC
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Only if you accumulate a lot of money.
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levi86
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Last time I checked greed was still a cardinal sin.
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mystified
Guest
Guess I’ll never have a problem with this
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