Is the Bible complete?

[BibleAnswer]

The final book in the Bible is the Book of Revelation. Written by the apostle John while exiled on the Island Patmos around the year 95 ad. John received a vision in a dream.

[Rev 22:18] For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; [Rev 22:19] and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

God is telling us that His Word is complete. This is twofold,

(1) the time of signs and miracles is over. It was true that during the time of the apostles, there were great signs, and wonderful miracles that they did, inspired by the Lord. However, once John finished the book of Revelations, and the final line was written. Then Gods Word was finally finished. Nothing more to say. Nothing more to add. No more signs, no more miracles. The only miracle that would be performed would be that of the Holy Spirit. He perfectly guided the hand of many individuals to write what He had to say, and then He finished.

(2) We also must understand that the Bible is the only source book of truth. So when Rev 22:18 is saying ‘if you add to this book’, then God is also talking about preaching separate doctrine from what the Bible teaches. Teaching a doctrine that is not in the bible would be considered adding to the bible. And changing the bible to match your doctrine, would be taking away.

The bible is His Word. Also, Jesus is the Word, as we read in: [John 1:14] and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

So if the Word is Jesus and if the Bible is the Word, then the Bible is Jesus also. The bible is Truth, and grace and the only resource you need to find that truth and grace.

The bible is a perfectly finished book.

 

[drforjc]

How to prove Pauline origin depends upon what is found.

The biggest issue in determining the Pauline origin of a previously unknown manuscript is the lack of known Pauline exemplars.

Linguistics, grammar, and style are secondary means of authentication.

If primary means can be used, then validating the authorship is trivial — nothing more than lots of grunt work. The reliability depends upon how long both the new manuscript is, and the known exemplars are.

jonathon

Given the silence of nearly 20 centuries I think the chances of a primary authentication are pretty slim.

As to your point about lack of known Pauline exemplars, this is very true, considering that there seems to be a fair amount of contention on the authorship of many “Pauline” epistles. If no one agrees on which epistles are genuinely Pauline in origin, it’s hard to bring even secondary means of authentication to bear.

 

[mackbrislawn]

The Bible is complete and there will never be any additions. The Canon of Scripture was closed with the death of the last Apostle.

The Canon of Scripture was closed with the death of the last Apostle, yes, but are there some writings of the Apostles that were not included in the current canon, but should be? Of course, as has been pointed out, authenticating them would be very difficult.

For Catholics, it doesn’t matter too much one way or another, since they have the Church to pass on the fullness of the truth.

For Protestants, the question of the canon is more pressing. Since they do not accept the Church as an authority for what the canon is, they are in principle free to determine the canon for themselves. One Baptist minister writes: “Why should Christians today be bound by decisions about the canon made in the 4th century?”

Indeed, why?

 

[mackbrislawn]

The bible is His Word. Also, Jesus is the Word, as we read in: [John 1:14] and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

So if the Word is Jesus and if the Bible is the Word, then the Bible is Jesus also. The bible is Truth, and grace and the only resource you need to find that truth and grace.

“Jesus is the Word, and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.” And the Church is also His body, and His Bride. So the Church is Jesus also. The Church is Truth. And the Word exists today among us as His Church.

The Bible is one of the tools given to it for its commission in spreading the gospel.

 

[BibleAnswer]

Almost,

In Acts 1, The Great Commission, Christ is telling his disciples to spread the gospel and to preach the gospel. Christ gave this commission only to spread the GOSPEL. Nothing else is the GOSPEL. Everything else is not the GOSPEL. This is the ONE AND ONLY tool Christ gave the church.

Now the Parable of the Wheat and Tares. The Wheat are the true believers, the Tares are those who think they are saved yet are not. In a church, one cannot discern between the hearts of these present. My own personal story is that, I approached the priest to have him explain some scripture I was beginning to understand. The priest gives me an explanation that is not satisfactory to me. This is because a priest is more concerned with the sacraments rather then the Gospel of Truth. A person can only be a tare if they are not actively seeking the truth in His Word. Sense we cannot know who is saved and who is not, who is a tare and who is not, I started to discern contradictions.

I say all this perhaps to enlighten somebody as to the reliability of the 2000 years of church teaching and doctrine. If a person is a tare, then they are not going to be teaching to complete truth. This is my only purpose, the complete truth and understanding. If you are happy with what you have been told, rather than actively seeking the truth yourself, how can you be sure that what you are being taught is accurate? How can you know that your teacher is not a tare?

Just calling on the Lords name does not guarantee salvation, as we learn many many people call on his name. Heck the whole of Israel called His name when they were led out of Egypt, but what happens, immediately they sin and God makes the command that everybody from that generation 20 years and older, shall not inherit the land and see Canaan, that they shall die.

Millions upon Millions of Jews died during the 40 years of wanderings. Because they sinned they never got to see the Promised Land.

The Promised Land is also a metaphor for Heaven. If you want to get to Heaven, you must be TRUE AND FAITHFUL to the Gospel. You see all the Jews called his name and believed; yet they all died and God commanded that they should die, because truthfully, most Israel in their heart never really believed. Because God doesn’t talk from both ends. there is only one truth, and to actively seek the truth means you are a wheat.

 

[e61iuser]

So if the Word is Jesus and if the Bible is the Word, then the Bible is Jesus also. The bible is Truth, and grace and the only resource you need to find that truth and grace.

And this my friends is what is called “bibliolatry”. That is, it’s what is known as “Bible worship” or worship of an inanimate object, specifically forbidden by the First Commandment. Exactly what happened to the bronze serpent after people elevated it beyond what it had been intended to after it had done its good work.

 

[mackbrislawn]

the GOSPEL. This is the ONE AND ONLY tool Christ gave the church.

You are right, the Gospel is the one and only tool Christ gave the church. The Church subsequently developed the Christian scriptures for its use in spreading the Gospel.

PS, I forgot the Holy Spirit! I believe the Holy Spirit is the Church’s main tool.

 

[BibleAnswer]

Unfortunately, comparing the bronze serpent which Moses used to heal the sick, and the bible, is a fallacy. Israel began to worship the serpant because of its healing abilities. Remembering that God initiated the plagues to begin with on an unbelieving Israel. They were worshiping the serpant as a god because of its ability to heal, physically. However God is concerned with spiritual healing. This is why we have the Gospel. The only way to reach salvation, to become a believer is through the gospel. faith comes by hearing, hearing by the word of God. That is the bible. the bible is made for proof, reproof and correction in your spiritual studies. The result of believing, of faith which Christ has in YOU, not in HIM, is the Holy Spirit. That is the gift given to us to discern truth.

I dont worhip to the bible. I only recognize that the bible is the ONLY AUTHORITY.

the first commandment, thou shalt have no other god before me, is refering to the practices of peoples worshiping Baal, and Mammon. These are other gods, the bible, is His word. It is his word. it is the closest we have to understanding Him.

 

[mackbrislawn]

.

How can you know that your teacher is not a tare?

This question is quite to the point. We can’t really know. Maybe Jesus was a tare. The Jews thought so and continue to think so. Maybe Paul was a tare, and the Judaizers were not.

Your teacher may very well be a tare, so the Church solves the difficulty by referring to the office held by the teacher. The tare holds the office that guarantees the authenticity of the teaching coming from the office. For instance, popes may be tares but because of their office we can rely on their teachings.

 

[e61iuser]

Unfortunately, comparing the bronze serpent which Moses used to heal the sick, and the bible, is a fallacy. Israel began to worship the serpant because of its healing abilities. Remembering that God initiated the plagues to begin with on an unbelieving Israel. They were worshiping the serpant as a god because of its ability to heal, physically. However God is concerned with spiritual healing. This is why we have the Gospel. The only way to reach salvation, to become a believer is through the gospel. faith comes by hearing, hearing by the word of God. That is the bible. the bible is made for proof, reproof and correction in your spiritual studies. The result of believing, of faith which Christ has in YOU, not in HIM, is the Holy Spirit. That is the gift given to us to discern truth.

I dont worhip to the bible. I only recognize that the bible is the ONLY AUTHORITY.

the first commandment, thou shalt have no other god before me, is refering to the practices of peoples worshiping Baal, and Mammon. These are other gods, the bible, is His word. It is his word. it is the closest we have to understanding Him.

Nope, sorry but what I said is completely accurate. The bronze serpent was commanded by God to be made to heal the physically sick. The Bible was made upon God’s command to heal the spiritually sick.

People then came to worship the bronze serpent (an inanimate object) as a god. People then came to worship the Bible (an inanimate object) as God. Why else would you say that “the Bible is Jesus also” in your previous post?

Repent of your sin of idolatry my friend, for sin leads to death.

 

[BibleAnswer]

1. It is interesting to note, that you actually agree with me, and I agree with you concerning the bronze serpent. We both know the story, and thus, we both developed the same truth out of it.
2. There is a fundamental flaw in some peoples reasoning though. That you can agree there could be Tares, however it seems hypocrital to say they still hold spiritual power over truth just because they were elected to a position. This does not make sense. If a person is a Tare, then they have no understanding of spiritual truth. that is defined in the bible. If a person is a tare, they cannot faithfull understand, decipher and teach what is in the bible. Thusly, doctrine that has been altogether misunderstood has passed from generation to generation, being built upon and refined, however this doenst change the fact that originally the whole principal was false to begin with. A person has to see this, in order to move forward with there study.

I like how in school and sports, we are all competitive and seek to refine our own ability to be beter and better. However when it comes to the bible, most of us just accept what is given to us and follow the leader. Why is it this way in church, and not in real life. It should be the same. Why do you lead in life, yet in church you follow. This wouldn’t be so bad if the Bible never tells us about wheat and tares, but it does, so we must accept it, and try to understand it, and once you do, you can move forward passed these basic principals which so many have discovered, not just me, and more on to more important principals.

 

[davidv]

1. It is interesting to note, that you actually agree with me, and I agree with you concerning the bronze serpent. We both know the story, and thus, we both developed the same truth out of it.
2. There is a fundamental flaw in some peoples reasoning though. That you can agree there could be Tares, however it seems hypocrital to say they still hold spiritual power over truth just because they were elected to a position. This does not make sense. If a person is a Tare, then they have no understanding of spiritual truth. that is defined in the bible. If a person is a tare, they cannot faithfull understand, decipher and teach what is in the bible. Thusly, doctrine that has been altogether misunderstood has passed from generation to generation, being built upon and refined, however this doenst change the fact that originally the whole principal was false to begin with. A person has to see this, in order to move forward with there study.

I like how in school and sports, we are all competitive and seek to refine our own ability to be beter and better. However when it comes to the bible, most of us just accept what is given to us and follow the leader. Why is it this way in church, and not in real life. It should be the same. Why do you lead in life, yet in church you follow. This wouldn’t be so bad if the Bible never tells us about wheat and tares, but it does, so we must accept it, and try to understand it, and once you do, you can move forward passed these basic principals which so many have discovered, not just me, and more on to more important principals.

Thread derailment alert.

 

[e61iuser]

1. It is interesting to note, that you actually agree with me, and I agree with you concerning the bronze serpent. We both know the story, and thus, we both developed the same truth out of it.
2. There is a fundamental flaw in some peoples reasoning though. That you can agree there could be Tares, however it seems hypocrital to say they still hold spiritual power over truth just because they were elected to a position. This does not make sense. If a person is a Tare, then they have no understanding of spiritual truth. that is defined in the bible. If a person is a tare, they cannot faithfull understand, decipher and teach what is in the bible. Thusly, doctrine that has been altogether misunderstood has passed from generation to generation, being built upon and refined, however this doenst change the fact that originally the whole principal was false to begin with. A person has to see this, in order to move forward with there study.

I like how in school and sports, we are all competitive and seek to refine our own ability to be beter and better. However when it comes to the bible, most of us just accept what is given to us and follow the leader. Why is it this way in church, and not in real life. It should be the same. Why do you lead in life, yet in church you follow. This wouldn’t be so bad if the Bible never tells us about wheat and tares, but it does, so we must accept it, and try to understand it, and once you do, you can move forward passed these basic principals which so many have discovered, not just me, and more on to more important principals.

Absolutely my friend. The question though is why I should believe your interpretation of the Bible? What Authority do you have to interpret these Scriptures? What Authority do you have to interpret the parable of the wheat and tares? Is your interpretation infallible? Is it the Truth? If I trust my immortal soul to it (your interpretation) will I be guaranteed the authentic teaching of Christ to His Apostles? Or am I betting my soul on a personal interpretation (as forbidden by the Bible itself in 2Pet 1:20) and therefore guarantee myself a one-way trip to Hell?

 

[BibleAnswer]

2 Peter 1:20-21 (New International Version)

20Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation.

21For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

These verses clearly tell us that the Bible, is from the Word of God. That no part in the bible, is devised from man, that all the prophecies contained therein, are from God Himself. This is a proof given by God, to His children, that all that He has to say, is from His mouth. Now the question of understanding what He says, is on you. The bible is a study guide, a spiritual guide, a dictionary, an almanac, a encyclopedia. It is everything in one. it is hard to understand.

This has nothing to do with studing the bible on your own. And nothing to do with interpreting parables. This is written as a parable as a trap for those who can not see with spiritual eyes, and hear with spiritual ears, this is why we read, (let him who has ears, understand) Understand what? to understand the spiritual meaning, not the topical meaning of a passage. but its spiritual meaning. To read a passage at face value will get you the wrong interpretation, if we read it for face value, then we would not need to compare scripture with scripture, and Christ would not have spoken in parables. We must always look for the true spiritual meaning. During my study, comparing scripture with scripture, i have been able to uncover certain parables, and connect certian dots. I am by no means a scholar or learned in theology. I am simply communing with God through His word like He commands.

A tare cannot discern what a parable is truly saying, because they are locked within the confines of there own reasoning and judgment.

And no, please do not accept what i say a parable is. I am on the forum, to learn, to discover new truth, and to teach where i can. The bible is made for proof, reproof and correction to your spirit and understanding. Please open your own bible, and study these verses yourself before you rebuke me. Or dont, i dont care, Obviously If a person has a heartful of pride they are unable to accept new truth. Just as God hardened Pharoah heart, so your own heart is hardened against truth. A tare.

So far however, Nobody has been able to deny what these parables mean, and knowing what a wheat and a tare is, certain people still choose to ignore its meaning, like it has no bearing or doesn’t apply to them. WRONG! Everything in the bible is made for proof, reproof and correction. Everything. How can a reasonably intellegint person, like most of you on here are, understand what a wheat and tare is, then not apply it to the Word and your life.

 

[e61iuser]

So in other words, you’re insisting that your personal interpretation is the Truth, and yet you’re not willing to claim any responsibility if my soul goes to Hell because of my belief in your interpretation.

The can that makes the most noise is that which is empty my friend. Peace be with you and I will be praying for you.

 

[mackbrislawn]

A tare cannot discern what a parable is truly saying, because they are locked within the confines of there own reasoning and judgment.

Quite true.

So, what we need is to be within the confines of apostolic reasoning and judgment. How do we acquire apostolic reasoning and judgment? The only way is to inherit it.

 

[BibleAnswer]

That is incorrerct, The Holy Spirit is the only way to discern truth. This has nothing to do with anything man made, or devised, this is purely spiritual. the gift to us, is the ability to discover truth for ourselves. God gave us our mind, and all of our gifts are from God, He gave a person everything they need to hear scripture. And faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Otherwise it would be, faith comes to those who seek the church, and by seeking the church you can obtain faith. The church is brick and mortar, the people inside the church are fallible.

And always remember, Acts 1, the great commision, the purpose of the church, from the very lips of God, was to spread the word to the ends of the earth and preach. Nothing else.

The bible is spiritual, the Word of God is perfect. The only contradiction, is that many people cant seem to get a grip on what the bible is telling them because the church has not told them everything, or at least the church tells people what their understanding is, nevermind that we have the ability to open the bible and study for ourselves. Never mind the fact that perhaps we might discover something contradictory to the church.

Pride will go a long way to decieve you. You can say it goes both ways, and i respect that, i am open and willing to learn that is why i am hear,

so please present arguments that are valid and from the scripture, Weather the scripture is the bible, or the scripture is the lxx or whatever, enough with the mis interpretations, if you have an opinion that is one thing, but it doesnt make it correct. This goes for me to, however I present valid argument from the bible, and they get immediately shot down,

Why, I am quoting the bible. I am proving that you need to compare scripture to scripture, i am proving that the bible is spiritual and that YOU need to study YOURSELF, and the HOLY SPIRIT, if it is GODS will, will guide you throughtout your own pilgrimage.

 

[BibleAnswer]

The verse that proves we need to compare scripture with scripture.

[Is 28:10] For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept, Line upon line, line upon line, Here a little, there a little.”

Verses that prove, the scripture is the only Authority, the Ultimate Authority.
[Psalm 119:40-48] Behold, I long for Your precepts; Revive me in Your righteousness. Let Your mercies come also to me, O LORD- Your salvation according to Your word. So shall I have an answer to him who reproaches me, For I trust in Your word. And take not the word of truth utterly out of my mouth, For I have hoped in Your ordinances. So shall I keep Your law continually, Forever and ever. And I will walk at liberty For I seek Your precepts. I will speak of Your testimonies also before kings, and will not be ashamed. And I will delight myself in Your commandments, Which I love. My hands also I will lift up to Your commandments, which I love, and I will meditate on Your statutes.

[Psalm 119:99-104] I have more understanding than all my teachers, for Your testimonies are my meditation. I understand more than the ancients, because I keep Your precepts. I have restrained my feet from every evil way, that I may keep Your word. I have not departed from Your judgments, for You Yourself have taught me. How sweet are Your words to my taste, sweeter than honey to my mouth! Through Your precepts I get understanding; Therefore I hate every false way.

[Psalm 119 :117-120] Hold me up, and I shall be safe, and I shall observe Your statutes continually. You reject all those who stray from Your statutes, For their deceit is falsehood. You put away all the wicked of the earth like dross; Therefore I love Your testimonies. My flesh trembles for fear of You, And I am afraid of Your judgments.

[Acts 17:11] These were more fair minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so.

[1 Ptr 2:2] As newborn babes, desire the pure milk of the word, that you may grow thereby.

[2Tim 2:15] Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

[2Tim 3:14-17] But as for you, continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them, and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

For a person that reads the bible with the eye for understanding, and not just topical reading without understanding, then this is what God commands me to do.
[1Tim 4:6-7] If you instruct the brethren in these things, you will be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished in the words of faith and of the good doctrine which you have carefully followed. But reject profane and old wives fables, and exercise yourself rather to godliness

[2 Tim 4:2] Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching.

[2Tim 4:5] But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.

However, this is the true reality, it is very sad, and consequently people are blinded from the truth.
[2Tim 3:1] But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come,

[2Tim 3:5] Having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away!

[2Tim 3:7] Always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

[2Tim 4:3-4] For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.

Now that we have context, lets have a meaningful conversation about this. You say church completes the scripture, I say the scripture is already complete. This is why i study the bible, to learn information like this, have you worked this out for yourself.

You can outright disregard this, or you can voice your understanding for us to comment on. and let the truth prevail.

 

[mackbrislawn]

That is incorrerct, The Holy Spirit is the only way to discern truth.

Pride will go a long way to decieve you.

and the HOLY SPIRIT, if it is GODS will, will guide you throughtout your own pilgrimage.

Umm, so apostolic reasoning and judgment will not work. Looking at scripture through the eyes of the apostles is not to the point.

So you’re saying that on the contrary, the Holy Spirit is the point, the way to discern truth. Well, I guess one can’t quarrel with that idea.

You know, it seems to me that people talk about sola scriptura, talk about bible alone, but I notice that in spite of that, nobody, absolutely nobody, ever uses scripture by itself. It is always scripture plus something else. That something else can be their human reasoning and judgment, it can be the writings of some person they admire (and hence read scripture through that person’s eyes and reasoning), it can be scripture plus a church, etc. Or, it can be scripture plus Holy Spirit. But it is never scripture alone.

If it is scripture plus the Holy Spirit, it follows that it is not actually through scripture that they come to their understandings, it is in reality through the Holy Spirit. Scripture then becomes somewhat superfluous. The main thing is the Holy Spirit which provides understanding, not scripture.

So, those without the Holy Spirit guiding you, forget about it! Because it is not God’s will!

 

[PJM]

=Geremia;5449107]Can there be, in the future, more Catholic, divinely-inspired writings besides the current Catholic canon of the Bible? I.e., is the current Catholic canon of the Bible, the written Word of God, complete? Or are Catholic, divinely-inspired writings in the future possible?

No!

If this were a possibility God could not be

All Knowing

All Wise

All Powerful

In other words God would only be “a god.”