Is the Bible perfect?

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I have a protestant friend faltering in his faith because of the apparent historical differences between the gospels. How do we explain that what he sees really is there, but this is why it’s not important? I say that because his sola scriptura friends say that he doesn’t see what is clearly a historical difference and they explain it away and say you have to believe by faith.

This friend explains it this way:
*
“When things are different from account to account one can not claim that the document is perfect, yet that is what we are supposed to believe.” He goes on to say, “you will not hear me say that the bible is perfect. I can not in good conscience say this.”*
 
Regarding the Innerancy of Scripture:

Clement of Rome

“Brethren, be contentious and zealous for the things which lead to salvation! You have studied the Holy Scriptures, which are true and of the Holy Spirit. You well know that nothing unjust or fraudulent is written in them….You are versed and, indeed, you are well-versed, beloved, in the Sacred Scriptures; you have studied the oracles of God” (Epistle to the Corinthians 45:1, 53:1 [ca. AD. 80]).

Please help me find a way to explain to this friend who sees inconsistencies among the eyewitness accounts.

I already shared the catechism and parts of fides et ratio… and no, the person doesn’t have a hard heart, just isn’t finding the answers.
 
Irenaeus on Scripture being perfect:

If, however, we are not able to find explanations for all those passages of Scripture which are investigated, we ought not on that account seek for another God besides him who exists.This would indeed be the greatest impiety. Things of that kind we must leave to God, the one who made us,** knowing full well that the Scriptures are certainly perfect, **since they were spoken by the Word of God and by his Spirit”
(Against Heresies 2:28:2 [Inter AD. 180- 199]).

Okay, so what if you want to find an explanation for some passages of scripture but you don’t want to seek another God?
 
The Bible is a genre of it’s own. Why must he impose upon it that it is a forensic coroner’s report listing scientific facts? The truth of the Bible is in the theological message revealed by way of the human author’s account. We always ask: “What is God revealing to us by way of this author’s words?” The answer to that is the truth. The Resurrection is a very consistent message in the Gospels as well as the early Church, and that’s the crux of Christianity. If Christ didn’t rise, we have nothing.

Dei Verbum #11-12 puts it this way:

*11. …everything asserted by the inspired authors or sacred writers must be held to be asserted by the Holy Spirit, it follows that the books of Scripture must be acknowledged as teaching solidly, faithfully and without error that truth which God wanted put into sacred writings for the sake of salvation. Therefore “all Scripture is divinely inspired and has its use for teaching the truth and refuting error, for reformation of manners and discipline in right living, so that the man who belongs to God may be efficient and equipped for good work of every kind” (2 Tim. 3:16-17, Greek text).
  1. However, since God speaks in Sacred Scripture through men in human fashion, (6) the interpreter of Sacred Scripture, in order to see clearly what God wanted to communicate to us, should carefully investigate what meaning the sacred writers really intended, and what God wanted to manifest by means of their words.*
Another Catholic document that is of great value on this are the 1994 doc The Interpretation of the Bible in the Church.

Another great piece on the matter is the theology of C.S. Lewis, and this may be of greater benefit for your friend. Get him the book C.S. Lewis on Scripture. It’s a short book and the section on “myth” is of great value. :o
 
I have a protestant friend faltering in his faith because of the apparent historical differences between the gospels. How do we explain that what he sees really is there, but this is why it’s not important? I say that because his sola scriptura friends say that he doesn’t see what is clearly a historical difference and they explain it away and say you have to believe by faith.

This friend explains it this way:
*
“When things are different from account to account one can not claim that the document is perfect, yet that is what we are supposed to believe.” He goes on to say, “you will not hear me say that the bible is perfect. I can not in good conscience say this.”*
It seems to me that your friend is making an unreasonable demand. The Gospel accounts were written by four different people with four target audiences. Of course there will be differences in emphasis, content, etc.

I use the following example when I am teaching THEO 1001.

Suppose four people are standing on four corners of a busy intersection. All four witness an automobile accident. All four are summoned into court to testify as to what they saw. If the witnesses are truthful, all the accounts will be similar, but not exact. Each witness may well include details not included by other witnesses – or vice versa. Indeed, if four witnesses testified “word-for-word”, the judge would rightfully suspect tampering of some sort!

It is unfair for your friend to expect a Gospel (Matthew) written to Jewish Christians to include the same details and emphasis as a Gospel (Luke) written by a Greek-speaking, non-eyewitness.

I hope that this helps a bit . . .

Blessings,
 
It seems to me that your friend is making an unreasonable demand. The Gospel accounts were written by four different people with four target audiences. Of course there will be differences in emphasis, content, etc.

I use the following example when I am teaching THEO 1001.

Suppose four people are standing on four corners of a busy intersection. All four witness an automobile accident. All four are summoned into court to testify as to what they saw. If the witnesses are truthful, all the accounts will be similar, but not exact. Each witness may well include details not included by other witnesses – or vice versa. ** Indeed, if four witnesses testified “word-for-word”, the judge would rightfully suspect tampering of some sort! **

It is unfair for your friend to expect a Gospel (Matthew) written to Jewish Christians to include the same details and emphasis as a Gospel (Luke) written by a Greek-speaking, non-eyewitness.

I hope that this helps a bit . . .

Blessings,
I really do think this might be the direction of what he needs to accept. That differences among eyewitnesses actually supports the veracity of the eyewitness accounts. Do you have any resources on this? Do you know what subject this falls under in Bible understanding, so I can look up more?

How do you respond when asked what about the differences in historical facts?

I shared this from the catechism:

"God inspired the human authors of the sacred books. “To compose the sacred books, God chose certain men who, all the while he employed them in this task, made full use of their own faculties and powers so that, though he acted in them and by them,** it was as true authors that they consigned to writing whatever he wanted written, and no more**.” My friend already knew that, that didn’t help. :rolleyes:

I have seen people ask, if the Gospels are inspired and inerrant, why wouldn’t God have had them write the facts correctly?

Wouldn’t four history books written by different authors have the facts correct?
My answer: Yes, but the authors of the history books would have each other as references.

The gospels aren’t history books. They are more personal accounts…

I am personally interested in this topic, because I am raising teenage boys and I have always told them to ask their questions and that the answers are there, if they just keep seeking.
 
Because he is a scientist.
So when he reads poetry and the poet says, “Today I am blue” he believes the author is claiming to have a change in skin pigment? It doesn’t matter who you are, you shouldn’t impose a different literary genre onto one that’s something else.
 
II have seen people ask, if the Gospels are inspired and inerrant, why wouldn’t God have had them write the facts correctly?

Wouldn’t four history books written by different authors have the facts correct?
My answer: Yes, but the authors of the history books would have each other as references.

The gospels aren’t history books. They are more personal accounts…

I am personally interested in this topic, because I am raising teenage boys and I have always told them to ask their questions and that the answers are there, if they just keep seeking.
The “myth” section in the C.S. Lewis book above is valuable here on these very questions. Lewis goes into, much better than I can articulate here, how the dynamic of a “story” is so much richer and filled with depth than a fact-by-fact account. Nevertheless, it can contain truth. Sometimes in Scripture, that’s how God speaks.
 
The “myth” section in the C.S. Lewis book above is valuable here on these very questions. Lewis goes into, much better than I can articulate here, how the dynamic of a “story” is so much richer and filled with depth than a fact-by-fact account. Nevertheless, it can contain truth. Sometimes in Scripture, that’s how God speaks.
Thank you MarcoPolo, I found this article also by CS Lewis to be helpful.
crivoice.org/lewisbib.html
 
I really do think this might be the direction of what he needs to accept. That differences among eyewitnesses actually supports the veracity of the eyewitness accounts. Do you have any resources on this? Do you know what subject this falls under in Bible understanding, so I can look up more?
There are many decent introductions to the New Testament which might be helpful here. Luke Timothy Johnson has a rather good one. As a Catholic Biblical scholar, he’s quite conservative. Moral Theology? Not so much!

Let me take my accident eyewitness scenario to the next level.

Four people see the accident.

One is a doctor, who is immediately concerned as to who may be hurt.
One is a lawyer, who notices that the red car blew the stop sign before hitting the blue car.
One is a fireman, who notices that the blue car is leaking gasoline and is in danger of catching on fire.
One is a newspaper reporter.

Not only are the testimonies going to be similar, yet individually personal, each testimony is going to include or exclude certain facts based on their training, interests, and expertise.

Now, let’s look at the Gospels.

Matthew was written by the Apostle Matthew, a tax collector by trade, indicating a certain level of education. He was Jewish and was writing to Jewish Christians, Jews interested in Christianity, and people familiar with Jewish customs.

Mark was written by John Mark, a sometime companion of Paul, and secretary to Peter in Rome. He was writing very quickly to people in Rome and its environs, quite possibly during a time of persecution. He was probably not an eyewitness to all of Jesus’ ministry, but was quite familiar with 2nd generation Christianity.

Luke was written by Luke the Beloved Physician. He was a companion of Paul, but not himself an eyewitness to Jesus. He indicated, in the prologue of his Gospel, that his intent was to provide an orderly account to interested Greeks. By all indications, he was highly educated, and the quality of his Greek approached “classical Greek”.

John was written by the Apostle John, an eyewitness, to 2nd and 3rd generation Christians who may not have known any other eyewitnesses. He relates, not so much a history, but rather numerous stories about Jesus found in no other Gospel and imbues them with theological meaning.

Is there any wonder why the Gospel accounts differ in detail?
Wouldn’t four history books written by different authors have the facts correct? My answer: Yes, but the authors of the history books would have each other as references.
Your friend is using an untenable understanding of what constitutes a “fact”.

Are the four historys book in question a one-volume, written for a generalist? Are they a multi-volume work, intended to trace the history of philosophical thought? Is it a history of World War II written by the Allies or by the Axis? Is it a religious history, a legal history, a medical history, etc.?

All of the above might share similar facts. But the meaning underlying those facts, and the understanding the various authors have about those facts might be different – even if equally accurate!
I am personally interested in this topic, because I am raising teenage boys and I have always told them to ask their questions and that the answers are there, if they just keep seeking.
Good advice! (From a father of 8, three of whom are currently teen-agers!)

Blessings,
 
These words from Paul Tillich’s Systematic Theology are, I think, relevant to this discussion.

"Where theonomy determines a religious and cultural situation – however fragmentarily and ambiguously, as, for instance, in the early and high Middle Ages – reason is neither subject to revelation nor independent of it. Aesthetic reason does not obey ecclesiastical or political prescripts, nor does it produce secular art cut off from the depth of aesthetic reason; through its autonomous artistic forms it points to the New Being which has appeared in final revelation. In theonomy cognitive reason does not develop authoritatively enforced doctrines, nor does it pursue knowledge for the sake of knowledge; it seeks in everything true an expression of the truth which is of ultimate concern, the truth of being as being, the truth which is present in the final revelation. Legal reason does not establish a system of sacred and untouchable laws, nor does it interpret the meaning of the law in technical-utilitarian terms; it relates the special as well as the basic laws of a society to the “justice of the Kingdom of God” and to the Logos of being as manifest in the final revelation. Communal reason does not accept communal forms dictated by sacred ecclesiastical or political authorities, nor does it surrender human relations to their growth and decay through will to power and libido; it relates them to the ultimate and universal community, the community of love, transforming the will to power by creativity and the libido by agape. In very general terms, this is the meaning of theonomy…

“The absolute side of the final revelation, that in it which is unconditional and unchangeable, involves the complete transparency and the complete self-sacrifice of the medium in which it appears. Every concrete occurrence in the event Jesus as the Christ discloses these qualities. No situation which Jesus faced and no act through which he met it establishes an absolutism of dogmatic or moral character. Both situation and act are transparent and not binding in themselves. Although potentially absolute, they are sacrificed in the moment they occur. Whoever makes Jesus the Christ into a giver of absolute laws for thinking and acting opens the dike for revolutionary revolt, on the one hand, and relativistic undercutting, on the other hand, both of them justifiable. There is, however, an absolute law which can stand under the criterion of finality because it is not denied in the act of self-sacrifice but rather fulfilled. The law of love is the ultimate law because it is the negation of law; it is absolute because it concerns everything concrete. The paradox of final revelation, overcoming the conflict between absolutism and relativism, is love. The love of Jesus as the Christ, which is the manifestation of the divine love – and only this – embraces everything concrete in self and world. Love is always love; that is its static and absolute side. But love is always dependent on that which is loved, and therefore it is unable to force finite elements on finite existence in the name of an assumed absolute. The absoluteness of love is its power to go into the concrete situation, to discover what is demanded by the predicament of the concrete to which it turns. Therefore, love can never become fanatical in a fight for an absolute, or cynical under the impact of the relative. This refers to all realms of rational creativity. Where the paradox of final revelation is present, neither cognitive nor aesthetic, neither legal nor communal, absolutes can stand. Love conquers them without producing cognitive skepticism or aesthetic chaos or lawlessness or estrangement.”

-Paul Tillich, Systematic Theology, Volume I, University of Chicago Press, Chicago: 1951, 149, 152.

“Therefore I tell you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven, for she loved much; but he who is forgiven little loves little.” -Luke 7:47

“Beloved, let us love one another; for love is of God, and he who loves is born of God and knows God. He who does not love does not know God; for God is love.” -I John 4:7-8

“If I speak in the languages of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all that I have, and if I deliver my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.” I Corinthians 13:1-3

“But when the time had fully come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons. And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!” So through God you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son then an heir… For freedom Christ has set us free; stand fast therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.” Galatians 4:6-7, 5:1
 
As a follow up to the previous post:

That Christian who searches after ways to maintain the inerrancy, and therefore unquestionable authority, of the scriptures I think does not understand that grace, forgiveness, love, the indwelling Spirit, and the kingdom mean that the conflict between heteronomy (outside authority) and autonomy (individual authority, or self-rule) are overcome by the Spirit which dwells in us as adopted sons. The love of the Spirit in the concrete moment is Christ himself, and that is the absolute for which so many seek. Those who demand an inerrant bible are still under the law, and therefore do not understand the adoption as sons, the indwelling Spirit and Christ (Romans 8:9-11), grace, and the cross. Those who are under grace and the cross understand that the indwelling Spirit overcomes the conflict between authority and autonomy, between absolutism and relativism. “Do not submit again to a yoke of slavery;” hear its message. The Bible’s perfection lies not in its inerrancy in literal-factualism, but its capacity to elicit this revelatory rapture of the Spirit. As for authority, pray to God for His Word the next time you see the beggar on the street corner, and it will become exceedingly clear. “He who has ears to hear, let him hear” (Mark 4:9).

Peace and joy of Christ’s eternal kingdom,
Gabriel
 
These words from Paul Tillich’s Systematic Theology are, I think, relevant to this discussion.
Thank you, gamorgan, I think it is relevant too, as I am sharing with a protestant friend.
 
These words from Paul Tillich’s Systematic Theology are, I think, relevant to this discussion.

"Where theonomy determines a religious and cultural situation – however fragmentarily and ambiguously, as, for instance, in the early and high Middle Ages – reason is neither subject to revelation nor independent of it. Aesthetic reason does not obey ecclesiastical or political prescripts, nor does it produce secular art cut off from the depth of aesthetic reason; through its autonomous artistic forms it points to the New Being which has appeared in final revelation.
If you enjoy this read, you might also enjoy Fides et Ratio, “Faith and Reason”

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_15101998_fides-et-ratio_en.html
 
If you enjoy this read, you might also enjoy Fides et Ratio, “Faith and Reason”

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_15101998_fides-et-ratio_en.html
Yes, John Paul understood the urgency of SVC (Second Vatican Council). A passionate Christian. I do like this article, but I must ask, does not the SVC divide a great deal of Catholics on this matter? Don’t the Tridentine conservatives demand submission to the church’s authority in the final analysis as an unquestionable absolute? Doesn’t John Paul and the rest of SVC allow for more freedom in the laity’s exploration? Isn’t John Paul closer, therefore, to Tillich’s concept of theonomy in the kingdom than the old authoritarian Tridentines? Isn’t it impossible to identify the kingdom with the church (americancatholic.org/Newsletters/CU/ac0980.asp)? If so, isn’t it impossible for the church, or any specific institution to command absolute authority? Doesn’t this undermine theonomy, the Spirit’s inward rule in the hearts of human beings, in the kingdom (Romans 8:9-11)? What’s your take? :hmmm:

Thanks for your follow up! :tiphat:
Peace and joy of Christ’s eternal kingdom,
GM
 
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