Is The Big Bang Really Proof Of Gods Existence?

  • Thread starter Thread starter MindOverMatter
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
j1akey said:
Well personally I find no reason to believe in any god but that doesn’t mean I’m going to tell people what they can or can’t believe. I do happen to disagree with religion in general on many a topic and think it’s myth and superstition but that’s me.
Click to expand...
Well, we could agree to disagree on a personal level.
 
40.png
murphjos:
The Church teaches no such thing.
Click to expand...
I didn’t say the church did. That’s why I mentioned creationists specifically. However there are several people here that claim to be catholic that believe in creationism. I did not target Catholics as a group for my post.
We BELIEVE in one God, the creator of heaven and earth…
We proclaim the MYSTERY of faith.
We are comforted by the peace of God SURPASSES ALL UNDERSTANDING
Click to expand...
And that’s great, if it works for you then run with. It doesn’t work for me so I don’t.
The only time you will find the Catholic Church standing in the way of scientific “progress” is when such progress is at the expense of justice or human dignity.
Click to expand...
And that’s why I didn’t target the Catholic church but rather those that preach creationism. While I happen to disagree with the church on some points I agree with you overall on this.
That does not explain why why you and the other atheists insist on arguing your positions here. Are there not better uses of your time (especially considering you are only expecting 75-90 years from birth before you cease to exist). I believe that your conversion would be greatly pleasing God (whom I serve). That is why I am posting. If you change the mind of every single person who reads your post you will still be dead within a century and mankind’s course will not have budged.
Click to expand...
Well, first of all, arguing my points with people that are always going to agree with me is pointless. The point is to engage people of opposing viewpoints. As far as having better uses for my time goes, well, I can’t always be out doing something more “worth while”. Besides I do enjoy the debate. 🙂 I’m not out to change anyones mind about their belief in a god, I don’t get whole belief in God thing but as far as I’m concerned people can believe what they want. I am out to change why people think religion should be included in scietific theory and knowledge. If that were to happen then that’s a BIG change of course. That was the entire point of what I wrote. Nothing more.

I may expect to only be around for pretty finite amount of time but mankinds course changes all the time and I’m still around to see it happen. Despite not believing in any kind of deity I would like to think that my children when I eventually have them will inheret a better world than the one I lived in, the same every as generation that has lived before me. I may have different views of what constitutes a better world than the one I leave behind but then again everyone does, no one thinks the same thing about everything.
The only rational explanation I have is that you are seeking the truth and are drawn here to be converted. You are a hungry man in the company of those full of the perfect food… and you are trying to convince them that they have been satisfied by sand and brine.
Click to expand...
Actually I already have what I consider to be the truth. People have been trying to convert me for years so I doubt it’s going to happen any time soon. As I said before, agruing my points with people that are likely to agree with me is pointless.
P.S. All of western thought was preserved by The Church during the dark ages you so fear she will return us to…
Click to expand...
Perhaps, I know the vatican has a huge library of stuff but I never looked into what is actually there. Either way the advancement of knowledge was at a standstill for a pretty long time after the fall of Rome. Of course the whole world won’t fall into a “dark age” like that of europe several hundred years ago but history has shown several times that when you eliminate learning or destroy knowledge and substitute in religious fundamentalism to take its place then that society as a whole goes into decline.

There has to be some sort of balance.
 
Oh yeah, thanks for completely ignoring the first 98% of my post and skipping to the last 2 lines.
 
I can not grasp the idea of a"Big bang" that would hurtle into empty space , multiple sets of " Black Holes" from where nothing can escape?
God is the eternal “NOW” and continues to confound the wise and enlighten the simple minded folks. He can suspend at will the mechanics of space and time and has done so numerous times. "The batle for Jericho? where the sun stood still as long as Moses held up his arms . The parting of the RED sea, and Recently at Fatima in the early 1900, when the Sun danced in the sky and hurtled towards earth before 60,000 pilgrims and yes atheist news reporters witnesses and reported these facts to their papers. Their soggy muddy clothing became dry and clean. MARY at the 7th.? appearance alit from a “golded globe” (Hello UFO buffs)and departed in the same manner.
I heard some solar phenomena also have occured at Mejugorje, at the Marian Appearances there.
Mary, the Mother of GOD born Jesus say in 1 AD or so. The SON of GOD ethernally begotten of the Father. One in being with the Father through wich all things were made.
This I BELIEVE ! , the Big bang YOU CAN BELIEVE.
 
WillieWonka said:
How do you know it was/is god?
Click to expand...
He doesn’t, and no matter how you want to spin it this is fitting god into a gap. It baffles me that a someone that has an education in science can** start **with a conclusion.
 
wbarquez said:
Good! But I hope that you do not make conclusions with certainity that there no such a thing as God simply because you cannot prove his exsitence in your notion of reality. The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. It does not follow that something does not exist simply because you did not see or know that it exists. That’s common sense.
Click to expand...
Sure, but you also don’t believe in things just because you cant disprove them. The default position with any claim is non belief. It is then up to the one making the claim to provide evidence. There is none for god.
 
j1akey said:
Creationists are quick to spit in the face of a evolution which is the first building block of biology. Biology has allowed we as a people to live longer, have clean water, grow more food to feed our population, create medicine to treat and cure disease, lower infant death rates and dramatically increase our lifespans just to name a few things that is the MOUNTAIN of achievements that we have made through the study biology and evolution. So now instead dieing at the ripe old age of 30 and spending our whole lives trying to gather enough food to survive the next winter, we can spend all our time bashing the VERY SAME THING that allows us to live our lives like we do. I’m not sure if this has just somehow escaped the religious community that believes in this sort of thing or if they’re purposely distributing misinformation for their own desires and goals. I’m inclined to think the latter.
Click to expand...
Exacty, creationists are anti-social on the highest level. They are intellectual vermin.
 
j1akey said:
Again, scientists don’t try to look for evidence of God. That includes Dawkins. Scientists look for ways to explain our reality and that’s it.
Click to expand...
“our” reality sums it up perfectly. **Your **interpretation of reality!
 
Charles_Darwin said:
Sure, but you also don’t believe in things just because you cant disprove them. The default position with any claim is non belief. It is then up to the one making the claim to provide evidence. There is none for god.
Click to expand...
There is no evidence whatsoever for the claim that **only **physical things exist… or that everything is derived from matter… 🙂
 
Fran65 said:
I strongly object to that statement CD and I think that you should apologise.
Click to expand...
Absolutely not, trying to use underhand techniques to warp the knowledge of mankind is unforgivable. Creationsits try to deny future generations the spoils of this knowledge which as j1akey has pointed out includes, to name but a few… allowing we as a people to live longer, have clean water, grow more food to feed our population and address starvation, create medicine to treat and cure disease, lower infant death rates.

It is disgusting.
 
tonyrey said:
There is no evidence whatsoever for the claim that **only **physical things exist… or that everything is derived from matter… 🙂
Click to expand...
Thats why i have never claimed **only **physical things exist… or that everything is derived from matter… 🙂
 
j1akey said:
I didn’t say the church did. That’s why I mentioned creationists specifically. However there are several people here that claim to be catholic that believe in creationism. I did not target Catholics as a group for my post.
Click to expand...
All Catholics are creationists. Most, I think, would agree that science is our best tool for understanding creation (but not The Creator).

It is possible to reconcile the idea of a creator God and our models of the universe by giving up on the idea of linear time (just like physicists do). It is just as likely that Gods act of will that caused creation was 1 second ago with all of history, the laws of physics and our memories intact as it is that he created a singularity with infinite possibilities 13 billion years ago. If I build a clock and you can roll it back to midnight doesn’t prove that I didn’t have it set to 3PM when I turned it on. A being capable of creation would “see” us, the primordial ooze, the big bang and our decedents 1000 generations from now in a single glance (not to mention every possible universe that “could have been” by our observation.)

This line of thought in no way impedes scientific discovery but leaves us in awe of God greatness.
 
wbarquez said:
Why is it that scientists try to look for empirical proof of God as if God could be proved the way we prove that carbon dioxide is made up of carbon and oxygen? Could the existence of God be verified in a laboratory or observatory? If God were observable through empirical methods then He would not be God, would He? I hope scientists, like Dawkins, should stick to their areas of competence and leave the the problem on the existence of God to the philosophers and the theologians.
Click to expand...
Will the philosophers and theologians return the favor?
 
tonyrey said:
Don’t you claim that your argument is true? What is the evidence for your argument that your claim is true?!
Click to expand...
I have not made any cliam’s.

What i said was there is no evidence to suggest there is anything supernatural going on in our brain. Thats not a claim, its a simple fact.

I am not claiming the brain is only physical, i am saying there is zero evidence to suggest otherwise.
 
Charles_Darwin said:
I have not made any cliam’s.

What i said was there is no evidence to suggest there is anything supernatural going on in our brain. Thats not a claim, its a simple fact.

I am not claiming the brain is only physical, i am saying there is zero evidence to suggest otherwise.
Click to expand...
you dont have the evidence … yet. isnt it true that we only use 10% of our brains??? i wouldnt bet my *soul *on evidence that only speaks for 10% of whats going on…i mean…just what? a couple hundred years ago no one believed in ‘germs’…seeing is believing right??? im just sayin while there might no evidence to suggest otherwise, i wouldnt go jumpin to conclusions…who knows what our mind is capable/made of…
 
murphjos said:
All Catholics are creationists. Most, I think, would agree that science is our best tool for understanding creation (but not The Creator).

It is possible to reconcile the idea of a creator God and our models of the universe by giving up on the idea of linear time (just like physicists do). It is just as likely that Gods act of will that caused creation was 1 second ago with all of history, the laws of physics and our memories intact as it is that he created a singularity with infinite possibilities 13 billion years ago. If I build a clock and you can roll it back to midnight doesn’t prove that I didn’t have it set to 3PM when I turned it on. A being capable of creation would “see” us, the primordial ooze, the big bang and our decedents 1000 generations from now in a single glance (not to mention every possible universe that “could have been” by our observation.)

This line of thought in no way impedes scientific discovery but leaves us in awe of God greatness.
Click to expand...
This is false - completely false. Read Humani Generis again. Evolution and the Big Bang theory are compatible with Catholic teaching - as true theories and not just as the sort of monstrous deceptions on God’s part that you suggested. (And in what manner this “in no way impedes scientific discovery” if the world is only 4000 years old and the world was made to look old to deceive us. Science is great because science is true.) If “all Catholics were creationists”, you would have to exclude St. Thomas Aquinas, Pope Benedict, Monsignor Lemaitre, and myself among thousands others from the label “Catholic”. Creationism is a Protestant heresy with no history or place within the Catholic Church.
 
Charles_Darwin said:
I have not made any cliam’s.

What i said was there is no evidence to suggest there is anything supernatural going on in our brain. Thats not a claim, its a simple fact.

I am not claiming the brain is only physical, i am saying there is zero evidence to suggest otherwise.
Click to expand...
Your insistence on having empirical evidence for everything pre-supposes that only physical reality exists, since immaterial beings can’t be empirically measured or verified by definition of the word “immaterial”.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top