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walt2000
Guest
Right on ,walt2000
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walt2000
Guest
An allegory (from Greek ἄλλος, “other”, and ἀγορεύειν, agoreuein, “to speak in public”) is a figurative mode of representation conveying a meaning other than the literal.
walt2000
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colliric
Guest
This one is especially very Good… It doesn’t just go through Apocalpyse, but analyzes Daniel in depth and spends alot of time discussing the Olivet discourse and all other relevant prophetical bible verses. Very very recommended… A long and very good read.
P.s.
oh and the subtitle is actually “The End Times Error that leaves the Bible Behind”…
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Lev23
Guest
File these teachings under-
“The church has replac–cough-cough–fulfilled Israel in bible end-time prophecy”.
Really, does Israel have any signifigance in catholic end times prophecy?
Thanks.
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NotWorthy
Guest
The New Israel does. The State that calls itself Israel doesn’t.
This, of course, is my opinion.
As they say, “If ignorance is bliss, then I’m a happy guy!”
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cpayne
Guest
This is a troublesome question. Really, you’ll get three answers: Yes, No, and a Different Kind of Yes.
Yes: Rapture-oriented “Left Behind”-believing Christians.
No: Christians who think Israel has been replaced by the New Israel of God, the Church.
I go with the Different Kind of Yes (not the “rapture”-oriented “Left Behind” Yes, in other words). Paul writes about the “true” Israel of faith, and the Israel that sought God in their own righteousness. “They are not all Israel, that are called Israel,” as he writes. Both types of Israel may still be found today, even in the Church. The true Church is the fulfillment of the true Israel of faith.
However, there do seem to be promises still remaining to be fulfilled to Israel AS A NATION. How or why or when these will be fulfilled, I don’t know. I am trusting in Christ to sort it all out.
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StevenFrancis
Guest
I’m sorry I couldn’t vote on this because you’re trying to boil it down to a binary choice. There is really not much in this life, and certainly not in the bible that you can do that with. The Apocalypse (Revealing or Revelation) to St. John is MANY things. About a third of it is an allegory, (or at the time actually, a warning), about the destruction of the old Jerusalem, which in fact occurred in AD 70…
You know what, instead of me getting into this, I implore you, or anyone else with even an inkling of interest in this book of the bible to read a book called “The Lamb’s Supper” by Scott Hahn. It is a short read. It’s inexpensive. It’s indespensable. In addition to being an incredible journey into the Revelation, it is my conversion book, so I’m a bit biased.
I believe anyone will get something out of this, whether Catholic or not. I think all Catholics AND Protestants owe it to themselves to read this book. Everyone should also read Hail Holy Queen, to understand the Catholic feelings about Mary, and A Father Who Keeps His Promises to understand the Catholic thoughts about convenant. If all Catholics would read these absorbing little page turners, they would enrich their Catholic practice deeply, and if Protestants would all read these three little books, they’d understand their Catholic brothers and sisters, and wouldn’t find in necessary to harbor any suspicions, fears, or resentments about them. It’s great to have a Bible and Catechism handy with you when you read these, but if you’re not the digging, scholarly type, they are self-contained books as well. It just depends on how deep you want to get into it. Dr. Scott Hahn is amazing. Not your average apologist. There is NO animosity or pomposity in his writing whatsoever. That would have turned me off immediately at the time that I discovered him.
Yours in Christ,
Steven
You know what, instead of me getting into this, I implore you, or anyone else with even an inkling of interest in this book of the bible to read a book called “The Lamb’s Supper” by Scott Hahn. It is a short read. It’s inexpensive. It’s indespensable. In addition to being an incredible journey into the Revelation, it is my conversion book, so I’m a bit biased.
I believe anyone will get something out of this, whether Catholic or not. I think all Catholics AND Protestants owe it to themselves to read this book. Everyone should also read Hail Holy Queen, to understand the Catholic feelings about Mary, and A Father Who Keeps His Promises to understand the Catholic thoughts about convenant. If all Catholics would read these absorbing little page turners, they would enrich their Catholic practice deeply, and if Protestants would all read these three little books, they’d understand their Catholic brothers and sisters, and wouldn’t find in necessary to harbor any suspicions, fears, or resentments about them. It’s great to have a Bible and Catechism handy with you when you read these, but if you’re not the digging, scholarly type, they are self-contained books as well. It just depends on how deep you want to get into it. Dr. Scott Hahn is amazing. Not your average apologist. There is NO animosity or pomposity in his writing whatsoever. That would have turned me off immediately at the time that I discovered him.
Yours in Christ,
Steven
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walt2000
Guest
Seventh vision Daniel 12/4 in the little scroll eat ,sweet in mouth sourer in the stomach.do not open seal it up.Daniel 12/4
Time is not yet.
Revelations ,in the little scroll eat, sweet in mouth ,sourer in the stomach.holy spirit opens seals.Rev.10/2
Revelations is open to a few that can see it ,the seals of the little scroll are open.Eat it sweet in mouth and sourer in stomach.
as for the book i don’t know. Rev tells me not to read any other book when studying Rev.22/18 walt2000
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Seamus_Sully
Guest
walt2000 or some other saint
I do not know if this is okay for this thread. If it is not, sorry.
If it is okay, here is my question: The 5 and 10 kings, are some of the kings from the Herodian line?
Thanks!
I have asked this on other threads, but the answer was not complete. They gave me a book, but I have not have time to find the book. I am working on it, but if some person knows perhaps they could answer.
thanks!
I do not know if this is okay for this thread. If it is not, sorry.
If it is okay, here is my question: The 5 and 10 kings, are some of the kings from the Herodian line?
Thanks!
I have asked this on other threads, but the answer was not complete. They gave me a book, but I have not have time to find the book. I am working on it, but if some person knows perhaps they could answer.
thanks!
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jamannor
Guest
I second all those books. I feel that it is a mixture of both, symbols can be taken literally. Very few things in life are two sided, and thats why I said I couldn’t vote.I’m sorry I couldn’t vote on this because you’re trying to boil it down to a binary choice. There is really not much in this life, and certainly not in the bible that you can do that with. The Apocalypse (Revealing or Revelation) to St. John is MANY things. About a third of it is an allegory, (or at the time actually, a warning), about the destruction of the old Jerusalem, which in fact occurred in AD 70…
You know what, instead of me getting into this, I implore you, or anyone else with even an inkling of interest in this book of the bible to read a book called “The Lamb’s Supper” by Scott Hahn. It is a short read. It’s inexpensive. It’s indespensable. In addition to being an incredible journey into the Revelation, it is my conversion book, so I’m a bit biased.
I believe anyone will get something out of this, whether Catholic or not. I think all Catholics AND Protestants owe it to themselves to read this book. Everyone should also read Hail Holy Queen, to understand the Catholic feelings about Mary, and A Father Who Keeps His Promises to understand the Catholic thoughts about convenant. If all Catholics would read these absorbing little page turners, they would enrich their Catholic practice deeply, and if Protestants would all read these three little books, they’d understand their Catholic brothers and sisters, and wouldn’t find in necessary to harbor any suspicions, fears, or resentments about them. It’s great to have a Bible and Catechism handy with you when you read these, but if you’re not the digging, scholarly type, they are self-contained books as well. It just depends on how deep you want to get into it. Dr. Scott Hahn is amazing. Not your average apologist. There is NO animosity or pomposity in his writing whatsoever. That would have turned me off immediately at the time that I discovered him.
Yours in Christ,
Steven
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trth_skr
Guest
I did vote for it being symbolic. I do share some of the concerns that it has literal meaning, but it clearly is written in symbolic language. Symbolism is generally symbolic of something, and that something in the Apocalypse is the reality of the Church age.
Mark Wyatt
www.veritas-catholic.blogspot.com
Mark Wyatt
www.veritas-catholic.blogspot.com
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Greg27
Guest
The commentaries I’ve read state it is clearly symbolic (as most apocalypse-genre books are) but the symbols pertain to historical events in the past, present and future from an eternal perspective.
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walt2000
Guest
Send more info what are you getting at?walt2000
Through Christ we are saints.
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Seamus_Sully
Guest
I heard that five of the kings in the Book of Revelation are five kings in the line of Kind Herod.
I think that this is correct.
I heard that Scott Hahn is one of the scholars who teaches this.
I think the city that sits on seven hills is the city of Jerusalem.
The New Jerusalem that comes down from Heaven replaces the old physical Jerusalem.
Are the five kings from the line of King Herod?
Are the ten kings from the Roman Empire?
Thanks Walt2000
I think that this is correct.
I heard that Scott Hahn is one of the scholars who teaches this.
I think the city that sits on seven hills is the city of Jerusalem.
The New Jerusalem that comes down from Heaven replaces the old physical Jerusalem.
Are the five kings from the line of King Herod?
Are the ten kings from the Roman Empire?
Thanks Walt2000
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walt2000
Guest
The above mentioned do not understand how toRevelations.
They break the last law in the book.Rev.22/18 they know not of what they speak.Ask any one that gives a interpretation to explain the seven thunders, and not go out of the book of rev. to do it .walt2000
They break the last law in the book.Rev.22/18 they know not of what they speak.Ask any one that gives a interpretation to explain the seven thunders, and not go out of the book of rev. to do it .walt2000
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Calbreese
Guest
That 90/10 ratio may be the best appraisal. God’s word repeats throughout his creation and scripture. An example, seven hills referred to Rome symbolically and probably also today literally to the seven continents.
The important literal event begins at Rev: 19:11 where the Messiah leads an angelic army on horseback from out of Heaven down to earth on Judgment Day.
Remember, John the Jewish scholar was shown, literally shown Visions of future events by an angel sent from God through the interpretation of Jesus Christ. He simply recorded what he saw in Koin’e Greek, in order to send copies to the seven churches of asia, which all lie in what is now modern day Turkey. As an aging Hebrew scholar (80-90) he also included five Hebrew words, Armaged’don, Ab’badon, Amen (means so be it) at the end to demonstrate he knew Hebrew. Because the mark of the beast was WWW in his vision, and there were no straight w’s in Greek, he simply translated that to 666, which was pronounced “shesh” or Shish-shah" in ancient Hebrew, the language God used to inscribed His ten commandments. And yes, WWW could also be translated, “616”. Look up multiple w’s in any Hebrew concordance. Anyway, the students who probably helped this at least octagenarian John write the multiple lengthy “duckquilled” coies may have accounted for different interpretations of WWW to 666 and 616. Simple. All that is in “Revelation WWW. is 666” Vatican has been aware of this since 2004. Book was submitted into “segreto archivio”, the secret archives. That is one book for the coffee table!
The important literal event begins at Rev: 19:11 where the Messiah leads an angelic army on horseback from out of Heaven down to earth on Judgment Day.
Remember, John the Jewish scholar was shown, literally shown Visions of future events by an angel sent from God through the interpretation of Jesus Christ. He simply recorded what he saw in Koin’e Greek, in order to send copies to the seven churches of asia, which all lie in what is now modern day Turkey. As an aging Hebrew scholar (80-90) he also included five Hebrew words, Armaged’don, Ab’badon, Amen (means so be it) at the end to demonstrate he knew Hebrew. Because the mark of the beast was WWW in his vision, and there were no straight w’s in Greek, he simply translated that to 666, which was pronounced “shesh” or Shish-shah" in ancient Hebrew, the language God used to inscribed His ten commandments. And yes, WWW could also be translated, “616”. Look up multiple w’s in any Hebrew concordance. Anyway, the students who probably helped this at least octagenarian John write the multiple lengthy “duckquilled” coies may have accounted for different interpretations of WWW to 666 and 616. Simple. All that is in “Revelation WWW. is 666” Vatican has been aware of this since 2004. Book was submitted into “segreto archivio”, the secret archives. That is one book for the coffee table!
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lak611
Guest
Where do you get your information about the mark of the beast being “www”? Is this some kind of joke that the world wide web is the mark of the beast?
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vern_humphrey
Guest
Iraneus, who was a follower of Polycarp, who knew John personally said John, “reckons according to the Greek system” – which is to say the Pythagorian numerology. Most modern commnetators agree the “666” refers to Nero, and the second beast is Domitian.
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lak611
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I knew that. I was trying to find out where the poster I addressed got the “www” from.
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trth_skr
Guest
From the Introduction of Sungenis’ The Apocalypse of St. John:
"…Apocalypse 13:18 gives us the number 666… in deciding how to interpret this odd-looking number, some will see it as representing a general reality, suggesting perhaps that 666 stands for all the wicked people in the world. Others might say that 666 is more specific, suggesting that it stands for a particular man. Preterist interpreters (those who view the Apocalypse as happening mainly in the past) are inclined to see 666 as representing the Roman emperor Nero. Dispensational Premillennial interpreters (those who view the Apocalypse as occurring in the future), are inclined to interpret 666 as referring to a future earthly dictator.
Code:
There are certain advantages and disadvantages to each of these approaches. On the one hand, the more general the interpretation, the less prone it will be to error, but perhaps at the expense of not providing enough information about the symbol to add to the basic knowledge we already possess about the state of affairs in the world. We all know there is evil in the world. Thus, to posit that 666 is a symbol of evil really doesn’t tell us much. On the other hand, the more specific the interpretation of the symbol, the more prone it will be to error, for a specific meaning excludes all other meanings, and if the specific meaning hasn’t arrived at the right meaning, it can be more detrimental than helpful. Of course, if the interpretation is correct, it is like finding a pearl of great price, for so much worthwhile knowledge can be built on the foundation of one solid truth."www.veritas-catholic.blogspot.com
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