Is the Catechism fallible?

[tee_eff_em]

Celibacy for Latin Rite priest is not an infallible statement. I have talk to a dozen priests that the Catechism of the Catholic Church in its entirety is NOT an infallible book.

If you read [post=2850685]what I posted earlier[/post], you will see that you do not need to convince me that the Catechism is not infallible.

However: I find no particular fallacy, error, or otherwise less than truthful statement in the Catechism’s teaching on priestly celibacy? I do not understand why this has been brought up as an example of “proof” that the Catechism is not infallible?

1579 All the ordained ministers of the Latin Church, with the exception of permanent deacons, are normally chosen from among men of faith who live a celibate life and who intend to remain celibate “for the sake of the kingdom of heaven.” Called to consecrate themselves with undivided heart to the Lord and to “the affairs of the Lord,” they give themselves entirely to God and to men. Celibacy is a sign of this new life to the service of which the Church’s minister is consecrated; accepted with a joyous heart celibacy radiantly proclaims the Reign of God.

1580 In the Eastern Churches a different discipline has been in force for many centuries: while bishops are chosen solely from among celibates, married men can be ordained as deacons and priests. This practice has long been considered legitimate; these priests exercise a fruitful ministry within their communities. Moreover, priestly celibacy is held in great honor in the Eastern Churches and many priests have freely chosen it for the sake of the Kingdom of God. In the East as in the West a man who has already received the sacrament of Holy Orders can no longer marry.

tee

 

[lukewarm]

You are begging the question. Putting heretics to death was a cultural norm in times past as in governmental norm as you are obviously a wry with your view of history. Protestant governments also put whom they deemed as heretics to death; have you never read about Elizabethan England where Catholics were slaughtered?

Of course I’m an Irish Catholic Iknow all this very well, however protestants do not claim to be part of the Earthly truth of Christ with a Pope as its head, nor do they claim to be infallible, once you make that claim the bar is set much higher, you have to show yourself to be infallible.

You are twisting my argument anyway into a historical one I never made. This isn’t about history but about a Papal Bull allowing the use of torture of heretics. Depending on who you ask people will show Papal Bulls in defense of something being a doctrine, but when I show a Papal Bull showing that the Church and Popes have condoned torture of heretics it becomes a point of contention. I have a hard time believing a Church could possibly be lead by the Holy Spirit and infallible, yet condone things such as burning people at the stake and other torture. Not to mention the Church was basically mum on slavery being a complete evil, although so is the Bible.

 

[Mannyfit75]

You say I lack charity, you don’t even know me. I commit charity every day but when I confront heretical doctrines and dogma like this I WILL NOT feel like giving charity! I will feel like disproving you!

You do lack charity. Yes, I don’t know you but God knows your heart. If you vent your anger on us and our Church, I hardly think God would favor your actions. Jesus even said, “Do unto others, as others do onto you.” Respect, my brother. You don’t respect his Church, you insult Christ himself.

 

[Mannyfit75]

If you read [post=2850685]what I posted earlier[/post], you will see that you do not need to convince me that the Catechism is not infallible.

However: I find no particular fallacy, error, or otherwise less than truthful statement in the Catechism’s teaching on priestly celibacy? I do not understand why this has been brought up as an example of “proof” that the Catechism is not infallible?


tee

I see no errors in the Catechism either. I was kinda shock when a priest (who return to the US) told me that the Catechism contains errors. He did say the Catechism isn’t infallible which I agree to some point. He claim it influence by too much European way of thinking…

Well, his excuse was that he thinks like a scientist than a theologian… He is sincere though, I give him that…

 

[dcdurel]

I see no errors in the Catechism either. I was kinda shock when a priest (who return to the US) told me that the Catechism contains errors. He did say the Catechism isn’t infallible which I agree to some point. He claim it influence by too much European way of thinking.

Documents are not infallible, only people can be fallible or infallilble. But documents can be the result of infallible teaching. Since the Pope presents this Catechism as a sure norm for teaching the faith, then it is the result of infallible teaching, thus without error in its teachings.
The Catechism is simply a summary of the Gospel the apostles taught and preached, with a deeper penetration of this Gospel as time has gone on. Since this Gospel came directly from Jesus, it is the Word of God, thus without error.
Since the Catechism is a summary of the Gospel the apostles taught and preached it is without error whenever it presents a teaching. It is possible that it might mention something in passing, which is not a teaching, which could be an error. But, whenever it presents something as a teaching of the Church, which is 99% of the time, it is presenting the Word of God and thus it is without error.
So far no one has been able to find an error it the teachings it presents, and they never will.

 

[Orionthehunter]

Documents are not infallible, only people can be fallible or infallilble. But documents can be the result of infallible teaching. Since the Pope presents this Catechism as a sure norm for teaching the faith, then it is the result of infallible teaching, thus without error in its teachings.
The Catechism is simply a summary of the Gospel the apostles taught and preached, with a deeper penetration of this Gospel as time has gone on. Since this Gospel came directly from Jesus, it is the Word of God, thus without error.
Since the Catechism is a summary of the Gospel the apostles taught and preached it is without error whenever it presents a teaching. It is possible that it might mention something in passing, which is not a teaching, which could be an error. But, whenever it presents something as a teaching of the Church, which is 99% of the time, it is presenting the Word of God and thus it is without error.

 So far no one has been able to find an error it the teachings it presents, and they never will.

I think we need to be careful not to say too much or too little about the Catechism. It is not infallible in whole or in part. The Catechism is a summary with reference notes to a significant portion of Church Tradition, Scripture, Teaching, Dogma, Doctrine and Discipline. It is these sources (Discipline excepted) that are infallible.

However, as a summary using words, terms, and explanations that are graspable by the average lay person, we can rely upon it to be a “sure norm” to understand what our Church teaches on most matters. We shouldn’t pick it apart unmercilessly but use it to gain knowledge and understanding of our Faith so that we might live it more clearly, nearly and dearly in our pursuit of Holiness.

It is presented in a manner such that it can be as described by the Pope in the Introduction: “a statement of the Church’s faith and of catholic doctrine, attested to or illumined by Sacred Scripture, the Apostolic Tradition, and the Church’s Magisterium. I declare it to be a **sure norm for teaching the faith **and thus a valid and legitimate instrument for ecclesial communion.”

He goes on to say: “This catechism is given to them that it may be a **sure and authentic reference **text for teaching catholic doctrine and particularly for preparing local catechisms. It is also offered to all the faithful who wish to deepen their knowledge of the unfathomable riches of salvation (cf. Eph 3:8). It is meant to support ecumenical efforts that are moved by the holy desire for the unity of all Christians, showing carefully the content and wondrous harmony of the catholic faith. The Catechism of the Catholic Church, lastly, is offered to every individual who asks us to give an account of the hope that is in us (cf. 1 Pet 3:15) and who wants to know what the Catholic Church believes.”

 

[Randy_Carson]

1. Yes, I’m new I’ve made about 20 accounts now with different variations of the name Nezmith, but that won’t stop me from cussing.

Luke 6:45
The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. For out of the overflow of his heart his mouth speaks.

It’s very kind of Nezmith to drop in from time to time and demonstrate how a true follower of Christ behaves to us poor Catlicks.

 

[Bishopite]

I know what hypocrisy is, and I know what the Bible teaches of love and kindness, and charitable acts, yes, I am entirely aware of them…

Then if you call yourself a Christian, start speaking and writing like one!! Pluck the log out of your eye before you see the speck in others.

however you did not come flinging these verses to God when he showed his wrath toward entire cities, namely Sodom and Gomorrah? He insulted pagans and Jews… but you did not accuse him of being at fault against His own word did you? No…

 

[Mannyfit75]

Truly, Truly, I must say. He is an example, of how not to be in this forum. Least we end up like him (won’t mention his name).

 

[Mannyfit75]

Documents are not infallible, only people can be fallible or infallilble. But documents can be the result of infallible teaching. .

I agree. What is infallible is the teaching itself. The Deposit of Faith that was handed down to us from the Successors of the Apostles, the Apostles, Jesus, and finally to God, the Father himself.