Is the Catechism Inerrant?

[Black_Jaque]

My priest and I have gone over this.

One way that we have found agreement is to distinguish between “the teaching” and “the verbiage”.

The teachings in the CCC should be inerrant. However the words themselves could be inaccurate.

This is another way of saying that you must look at the broader context. You can’t just pick out a sentence or phrase and judge it’s inaccuracy.
**

For the son of God became man so that we might become God.

Ask yourself if this sentence conveys the entire teaching the CCC is trying to communicate. Or is this just a single brick in an entire wall?

The Word became flesh to make us “partakers of the divine nature”: “For this is why the Word became man, and the Son of God became the Son of man: so that man, by entering into communion with the Word and thus receiving divine sonship, might become a son of God.” “For the Son of God became man so that we might become God.” “The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods.”

Or is this the actual teaching?

Notice in the controversial statement that God is capitalized. This is saying something very different that “we might become a god.” or “we might become gods.” We are to become God. That is we commune with God, we become one with God. Once we are in Heaven, we will be grafted to God so that it will be difficult to distinguish where God ends, and we begin.**

 

[patricius]

But there is a disctinction between our personage and His personage. This is a disctinction that the one sentence in CCC460 does not make. Take the Trinity for example. There is no greater example of perfect unity. Yet, the Catholic Church (in response to heresy) clearly articulated that while all 3 Persons of the Trinity are One, they are distinct Persons. Jesus is not the Holy Spirit. The Father is not Jesus. The Holy Spirit is not the Father. The 3 Persons are not the same individual in merely different forms. They are distinct individuals. The Church has gone to great length to clarify this.

I know it was a long time ago, but I had to comment on this: Jesus says that “I and the Father are one.” That doesn’t make him a heretic. We can understand a distinction without having to articulate it every time a relevant subject comes up.

More to the point: the CCC atriculates infallible Church teaching, but in my understanding its format is not such that any new developments of doctrine it might contain are to be considered inerrant.

 

[francisca]

petra:

CCC 460 contains the statement, “For the son of God became man so that we might become God.” … But there should be no confusion between the Creator and his creation. … Are Catholics to treat the passage as an error, or are we obligated to believe this?

To believe God in Jesus Christ

means

To know God is to BECOME like Him.

We were all created in God’s IMAGE. But when we sin, we had lost this image resulting that we “do not know” God anymore.

So Jesus came, so that through Jesus we KNOW God again (meaning we find His Image again).

To KNOW God is to become like Him : bearing God’s Image, we are the sons of God.

Therefore we say that we are the sons of God in Jesus Christ.

Sons have similarities with their father. So are we, in Jesus Christ, we are sons of The Father, full of Spirit in Truth and Love, just as our Father IS. We love because we are sons of Love first. Far before we pay our effort, we are sons first. And because of this sonship that we receive, then we change : we become “new creations” : reborn as sons of God. By this sonship then we do things like “princes of light” and not like “slaves of darkness” anymore.

To understand this, one must have experience of faith first.
To experience this, one must believe first.

So the sequence is ALWAYS believe, experience, understand. It has to be in THIS ORDER.

No definitions can tell us any of GOD’s TRUTH.

CCC is nothing but “menu of food”. But one must taste the food to know. And after you taste the food, then you might realize that the menu might not be very accurate in explaining the taste, because the “taste” is BEYOND description. So there is no point to argue about how “the menu define the food”.

Anyway, if we have “taste” The Truth, it does not matter whatever the menu’s “descriptions”, for we have KNOWN it by HEART.

So don’t be deceived : CCC is only a “menu” of Truth. It is not the TRUTH itself. It is very misleading to think that CCC is more important all things.

The Church must bring the people to Jesus Himself. Not only through definitions, but to KNOW HIM personally in their daily walk with Him.

To walk with Jesus means to read Bible : Because Jesus is THE WORD, it is impossible to know Him without bible. Bible is more important than CCC. I don’t mind reading CCC, but I don’t get any faith nor understanding from there. Really. The more I read CCC the confused I have become. But God is light, in Him there is no confusion. So I pray and I read The Word. I ask God to give me FAITH first before I read anything. From this simple faith, everything is easy because God send the Holy Spirit to guide whoever believe.

I only undertand God through the Bible and though daily experience and prayers (Call me protestant/ fundamentalist then, it does not matter anymore) and prayer group and homily. God even give me understanding even as I sing songs of praises to Him! And that is so simple.

May Jesus draw you near Him, to lead you on His Path, so that you might KNOW GOD by heart so that you BECOME LIKE HIM.

Galatians 2:20
"I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

John 17:3
"This is eternal life, that they may KNOW You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature[bearing God’s Image, The New Adam, we are new creation, sons of God - francisca]; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come

Matthew 5:48
[Jesus said, ]"Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

God bless you.

 

[beng]

francisca:

CCC is nothing but “menu of food”. But one must taste the food to know. And after you taste the food, then you might realize that the menu might not be very accurate in explaining the taste, because the “taste” is BEYOND description. So there is no point to argue about how “the menu define the food”.

Anyway, if we have “taste” The Truth, it does not matter whatever the menu’s “descriptions”, for we have KNOWN it by HEART.

So don’t be deceived : CCC is only a “menu” of Truth. It is not the TRUTH itself. It is very misleading to think that CCC is more important all things.

The Church must bring the people to Jesus Himself. Not only through definitions, but to KNOW HIM personally in their daily walk with Him.

To walk with Jesus means to read Bible : Because Jesus is THE WORD, it is impossible to know Him without bible. Bible is more important than CCC. I don’t mind reading CCC, but I don’t get any faith nor understanding from there. Really. The more I read CCC the confused I have become. But God is light, in Him there is no confusion. So I pray and I read The Word. I ask God to give me FAITH first before I read anything. From this simple faith, everything is easy because God send the Holy Spirit to guide whoever believe.

The CCC brings the teaching of the scripture into light. The CCC is not the menu but CCC is the recipe where all the ingridients are cooked into a tasteful groumet ready to eat and nourished the body.

Your continued demeaning of the Catholic Church teaching, which you’re apart of is simply apalling.

I only undertand God through the Bible and though daily experience and prayers (Call me protestant/ fundamentalist then, it does not matter anymore) and prayer group and homily. God even give me understanding even as I sing songs of praises to Him! And that is so simple.

I know the Bible too (maybe even more than you). Yet I can see the truth, why can’t you?

 

[JOE_OBERR]

petra:

I’ve had a question in the queue of the Ask an Apologist forum for about a week, and it still hasn’t shown up. While I’m waiting for an authoritative answer, I thought I’d post it here, as well.

I’m a fairly new Catholic, so forgive my ignorance, but is the Catechism intended to be inerrant? It’s my understanding that Sacred Tradition is the oral teachings of the apostles, handed down to us. These oral teachings . . . did they eventually get written down? Is this the Catechism? Is the Catechism the embodiment of Sacred Tradition?

I have found the Catechism of the Catholic Church to be a beautiful and thorough treatment of every doctrine central to the Christian faith. However, there is one part that is very troubling to me. CCC 460 contains the statement, “For the son of God became man so that we might become God.” I understand the concept of being a partaker of God’s divine nature: becoming Christ-like or God-like to the extent that we surrender ourselves to His will and become holy. But there should be no confusion between the Creator and his creation. There should be no confusion between our own personage and God’s personage. We don’t become Divine in the Mormon or New Age sense. (I actually became aware of this section in the CCC from a Mormon. He thinks CCC 460 is great, because that is what Mormonism teaches!) Are Catholics to treat the passage as an error, or are we obligated to believe this?

There is another current thread dealing with problematic wording in the Catechism. While there are some passages of scripture that are difficult to interpret, the meaning of most of scripture is transparent and understandable. It would seem that the Catechism would provide the opportunity to clarify Scripture passages that may be confusing. But in this instance, at best, it is introducing confusion and, at worst, is promoting a doctrine contrary to the Bible (that we can become God).

Thoughts anyone?

Any teaching, whether exercised “ex cathedra” or by the ordinary and universal magisterium is infallible as its source is God. Since the CCC is a “sure norm for teaching the faith” (pg 5), it contains teachings, approximately 90%. Therefore these must be believed, they are de fide.

Pages 1-5 contains explanations of the nature of the CCC.