Is the Catechism infallible?

  • Thread starter Thread starter LaramieHirsch
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
L

LaramieHirsch

Guest
Is the Catechism of the Catholic Church infallible?

Is the Baltimore Catechism infallible?

Is the Catechism of the Council of Trent infallible?
 
LaramieHirsch said:
Is the Catechism of the Catholic Church infallible?

Is the Baltimore Catechism infallible?

Is the Catechism of the Council of Trent infallible?
Click to expand...
Catechisms are not by their nature infallible, but most of what they contain is infallible. All of it is Catholic doctrine though and they are recognized as the teaching of the Catholic Church.
 
Well here I go into plain “heresy” as many here will (and have) condemned me: I don’t think there is a Human Being or any document thereof that is "infallible’ as I believe it impossible for any Human to know the mind of God, let alone comprehend His purpose which, by the way, can be terrifying to consider.
 
ellzeena said:
Well here I go into plain “heresy” as many here will (and have) condemned me: I don’t think there is a Human Being or any document thereof that is "infallible’ as I believe it impossible for any Human to know the mind of God, let alone comprehend His purpose which, by the way, can be terrifying to consider.
Click to expand...
Are you sure you are understanding what is infallible means as the Church uses it?

"Jesus Christ died, and three days later he rose from the dead.*

“God created all things that exist.”

Infallible statements… Without them we would not have the faith. We could never know anything is true… We would go in circles endlessly.

Is the particular wording of an explanation in the, say, Baltimore Catechism the ultimate ideal perfect way of expressing such a thing for all time? Of course not. But is anything untrue taught in it about faith or moral teaching? No.
 
ellzeena said:
Well here I go into plain “heresy” as many here will (and have) condemned me: I don’t think there is a Human Being or any document thereof that is "infallible’ as I believe it impossible for any Human to know the mind of God, let alone comprehend His purpose which, by the way, can be terrifying to consider.
Click to expand...
I am curious if you think one could use this statement to not be obedient to ANY Church, teaching or dogma?
Hey, If no one or thing can claim infallibility then why should there be any Truth at all?
 
ellzeena said:
Well here I go into plain “heresy” as many here will (and have) condemned me: I don’t think there is a Human Being or any document thereof that is "infallible’ as I believe it impossible for any Human to know the mind of God, let alone comprehend His purpose which, by the way, can be terrifying to consider.
Click to expand...
👍
 
The doctrine of the Trinity is an infallible truth. The Catechism’s explanation on the Trinity is not an infallible explanation, though it is certainly an authoritative Western Catholic explanation of it.

The doctrine of the Hypostatic Union (that Christ is fully God and fully man) is an infallible truth. The Catechism’s explanation on the Hypostatic Union is not an infallible explanation, though it is certainly an authoritative Western Catholic explanation of it.
 
ellzeena said:
Well here I go into plain “heresy” as many here will (and have) condemned me:** I don’t think there is a Human Being or any document thereof that is "infallible’ as I believe it impossible for any Human to know the mind of God**, let alone comprehend His purpose which, by the way, can be terrifying to consider.
Click to expand...
Correct you are, which is why infallibility does not come from any human, but from the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit is infallible…
 
ellzeena said:
Well here I go into plain “heresy” as many here will (and have) condemned me: I don’t think there is a Human Being or any document thereof that is "infallible’ as I believe it impossible for any Human to know the mind of God, let alone comprehend His purpose which, by the way, can be terrifying to consider.
Click to expand...
Infallibility is simply the charism by which the Church is preserved from teaching as definitively true that which is fact false. If you believe that it is possible that there are doctrines of the Church which the Church has defined as certainly true but are nonetheless possibly false, then yes, you are a heretic. Then again, you have publicly professed other heretical views on this forum.
 
Zekariya said:
The doctrine of the Trinity is an infallible truth. The Catechism’s explanation on the Trinity is not an infallible explanation, though it is certainly an authoritative Western Catholic explanation of it.

The doctrine of the Hypostatic Union (that Christ is fully God and fully man) is an infallible truth. The Catechism’s explanation on the Hypostatic Union is not an infallible explanation, though it is certainly an authoritative Western Catholic explanation of it.
Click to expand...
Doctrines aren’t infallible. Persons are. A doctrine is not infallibly true; it is simply true. Infallibility is a charism possessed by the Church whereby she cannot teach error as truth.
 
ellzeena said:
Well here I go into plain “heresy” as many here will (and have) condemned me: I don’t think there is a Human Being or any document thereof that is "infallible’ as I believe it impossible for any Human to know the mind of God, let alone comprehend His purpose which, by the way, can be terrifying to consider.
Click to expand...
Hi ellzeena, I will not call you a “heretic” I’m glad you had the courage to say it, our church seems totally unable to take valid criticism. There are many anomalous areas that should be up for rational debate.
 
No, catechisms are not infallible themselves. However, it is good to presume that most or everything within them is.
 
aemcpa said:
Doctrines aren’t infallible. Persons are. A doctrine is not infallibly true; it is simply true. Infallibility is a charism possessed by the Church whereby she cannot teach error as truth.
Click to expand...
Are you saying that a doctrine which is infallibly defined is not an infallible doctrine?
 
ellzeena said:
Well here I go into plain “heresy” as many here will (and have) condemned me: I don’t think there is a Human Being or any document thereof that is "infallible’ as I believe it impossible for any Human to know the mind of God, let alone comprehend His purpose which, by the way, can be terrifying to consider.
Click to expand...
It isn’t about knowing the mind of God; it is about proclaiming certain truths that we know to be true.

What do you mean by comprehending God’s purpose?
 
Leon_Bloy said:
Are you sure you are understanding what is infallible means as the Church uses it?

"Jesus Christ died, and three days later he rose from the dead.*

“God created all things that exist.”

Infallible statements… Without them we would not have the faith. We could never know anything is true… We would go in circles endlessly.

Is the particular wording of an explanation in the, say, Baltimore Catechism the ultimate ideal perfect way of expressing such a thing for all time? Of course not. But is anything untrue taught in it about faith or moral teaching? No.
Click to expand...
Yes I’m fairly certain I understand the concept of infallibility. One poster said the catechism isn’t (intrinsically) infallible but that all it contains IS. This seems rather contradictory because if all it contains is infallible, then the catechism is infallible. :confused:

I just find it almost impossible to think that God requires us to know the contents of this entire book “by heart” when the teachings of Jesus were simple and straight forward, as He rendered the (to us) inexplicable Will of God into a way of life that could actually be followed. I don’t see any enormous volumes being lugged around by Him anywhere in the NT. 🤷

I have problems with the concept of infallibility but I do abide by the doctrines and dogmas of the Church because that is where God has put me: in the Roman Catholic Church, and for a reason, so I don’t question Him.
 
ellzeena said:
Yes I’m fairly certain I understand the concept of infallibility. One poster said the catechism isn’t (intrinsically) infallible but that all it contains IS. This seems rather contradictory because if all it contains is infallible, then the catechism is infallible. :confused:

I just find it almost impossible to think that God requires us to know the contents of this entire book “by heart” when the teachings of Jesus were simple and straight forward, as He rendered the (to us) inexplicable Will of God into a way of life that could actually be followed. I don’t see any enormous volumes being lugged around by Him anywhere in the NT. 🤷

I have problems with the concept of infallibility but I do abide by the doctrines and dogmas of the Church because that is where God has put me: in the Roman Catholic Church, and for a reason, so I don’t question Him.
Click to expand...
No, not all that is in the Catechism is infallible, but a large portion of it is. Then again, a large portion of the Catechism is explanatory in nature. Explanatory paragraphs, supporting material, and stuff like that are not (necessarily) infallible.

The Catechism itself, the document, is not infallible. Copyright pages, artwork, and indices can’t be infallible, after all.
 
thistle said:
Are you saying that a doctrine which is infallibly defined is not an infallible doctrine?
Click to expand...
A doctrine which is infallibly defined is a dogma. It is certainly true, and if any Catholic doubts or denies it he is a heretic. Nonetheless, infallibility is a charism of the Church.
 
aemcpa said:
A doctrine which is infallibly defined is a dogma. It is certainly true, and if any Catholic doubts or denies it he is a heretic. Nonetheless, infallibility is a charism of the Church.
Click to expand...
A doctrine that is infallibly defined is an infallible doctrine.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top