Is the Catholic Church a cult ?

[celticcrusader]

I remember reading something a long time ago, that Martin Luther after he left the RCC still had a devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary. has anyone else heard this?

 

[TriuneUnity]

I remember reading something a long time ago, that Martin Luther after he left the RCC still had a devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary. has anyone else heard this?

It would be a false assertion since he wrote explicitly against the invocation of saints. He did, however, have a high and pious view of the Blessed Mother.

 

[Memaw]

The Bible never says Peter was married. He could just have well been a widower.

Celibacy for priests is a Church Law. In fact the Eastern Orthodox Churches have married priests. And even the Latin Rite has allowed some married men who were Anglican priest and converted to Catholicism to become Catholic priest while still married. The Church can make laws and also loose laws. Christ gave Peter that power, “Whatever you bind on earth, will be bound in Heaven, whatever you loose on earth, will be loosed in Heaven.” Only the Pope can do that. There is a big difference in Divine Revelation and Church laws, although as Catholics we are bound to both equally.

 

[Memaw]

It would be a false assertion since he wrote explicitly against the invocation of saints. He did, however, have a high and pious view of the Blessed Mother.

Look what Martin Luther lost when he turned his back on his Catholic Faith, not only for himself but for generations of protestants. One of life’s great tragedies.

 

[mh2007]

I don’t view the CC as a cult. It is a well organized institution. However, many individuals within the church displayed ‘cult-like’ tendencies, esp. in the early and mid 1900’s.

 

[RobHom]

It is a cult. The term “Cult” isn’t necessarily a pejorative

Actually, in today’s vernacular…it is. Its a slur, and meant to be a slur.

 

[RobHom]

I remember reading something a long time ago, that Martin Luther after he left the RCC still had a devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary. has anyone else heard this?

Click on this link and see what all the principals of the reformation thought about the Blessed Virgin Mary:

davidmacd.com/catholic/martin_luther_on_mary.htm

Seems they got it right…but their followers have decided they know better…

 

[guanophore]

I would not hold to this opinion; a cult by definition as to the modern usage of the word would indicate a church or group which teaches heretical doctrines; Roman doctrine, while I believe much of it false, is not heretical.

This is an absurd statement. False doctrine =heretical.

 

[RobHom]

What I see here, smacks right in the face of the teachings of the RCC, But, then again, the RCC is way across the board on most issues, since it changes doctrines from generation to generation. -When, for instance was the assumption of Mary dogmatized, 1968, maybe?
How about Limbo? they teach one generation that they have the only truth, then teach the next generation another truth, in total opposition to the first. O-Tay ?!

Blessings to you all as you seek the truth,

Tim

Tim, I’m afraid you’re doing a “huge reach” in trying to apply the standards of a cult…like the Branch Davidians, or one run by the Jim Jone’s of the world. The Catholic Church is not a cult. But thank you for the good belly laugh. I got quite a chuckle out of your post…really I did!!

As to The Blessed Virgin Mary…and dogma, you may want to spend a few minutes reading at this link: bringyou.to/apologetics/AssumptionMaryJuniperCarolMariology.htm#MAGISTERIUM

As to “limbo”…please read here: catholic.org/international/international_story.php?id=21542

You will note, that “limbo”, the concept… (not the dance ) was never “officially” a part of Church doctrine… Its not an issue of telling one generation one thing or another… If the Catholic Church is “guilty of anything”…its “consistency”.

 

[RobHom]

This is an absurd statement. False doctrine =heretical.

You’re correct. Additionally, his statement would be considered an “oxymoron”.

 

[Brocktongirl]

I find it interesting that that gentleman (I think?) who said he works with cults etc - believes definitively that cc is a cult

I guess growing up in the 1980’s there was not as much fire and brimstone teaching. I have never felt that I was in a cult. We are taught to obey the ten commandments and attend church and do onto others, etc … I never felt brain washed - we are preached and taught the beliefs and I believe or not believe - The Pope is a leader but not someone that I worship (much like a leader) Tithing is not something we have to do - something that we are encouraged to do. The parish community helps those who are having tough times. If it was such brainwashing - I guess it was not so successful because we also were taught about free will… those who I have met who were truly in cults experience life altering events, have been taken from their homes and family, stripped of their individualism and “brainwashed” that their way is the only true way. I had friends of all faith growing up and of course still do and I never felt that they were damned or ridiculous. But maybe I am not a true catholic - but I would love to meet anyone who would truly say that they are a “perfect” catholic - it would be impossible unless a monk or cloistered nun.

 

[bartimaeus]

Tim, I’m afraid you’re doing a “huge reach” in trying to apply the standards of a cult…like the Branch Davidians, or one run by the Jim Jone’s of the world. The Catholic Church is not a cult. But thank you for the good belly laugh. I got quite a chuckle out of your post…really I did!!

As to The Blessed Virgin Mary…and dogma, you may want to spend a few minutes reading at this link: bringyou.to/apologetics/AssumptionMaryJuniperCarolMariology.htm#MAGISTERIUM

As to “limbo”…please read here: catholic.org/international/international_story.php?id=21542

You will note, that “limbo”, the concept… (not the dance ) was never “officially” a part of Church doctrine… Its not an issue of telling one generation one thing or another… If the Catholic Church is “guilty of anything”…its “consistency”.

Yes, well, neither have these been dogmatized, but they have been taught by popes for generations, Such as, Mary our Advocate, Mary co-redemptorist, and Mary mediatrix.

 

[guanophore]

Take your hands off your hips, Elvis…

Please don’t call me an anti-Catholic, because you are looking very ignorant.

Peace!

It is true that a person who posts anti-Catholic bigotry may not be in agreement with what one has posted, but one cannot deny that posting such false and detractory material is better ascribed to ignorance than maliciousness.

 

[guanophore]

The Bible never says Peter was married. He could just have well been a widower.

Well, c’mon! Common sense tells us, if he had a mother in law, he must have been married!

I agree that we don’t know if his wife was still alive, or if she left him when he followed Jesus, but Paul later writes that Peter’s wife accompanied him on his missionary journeys.

 

[guanophore]

First of all, the word “after” appears nowhere in Mt1:25. You added it yourself.

Second, I agree with you about relation, but it’s cousin, not brother.

It refers to a close relative. They could also be step- siblings from a previous marraige of Joseph.

 

[guanophore]

If you spread falsehoods - such as the nonsense about priestly celibacy being linked to property rights - then you are anti-Catholic.

If you expressed it as something you were told and not as a fact, I humbly apologize.

There are many factors in the implementation of this discipline. Property was one, because the Church did not want to mix any secular power with spiritual authority. When people married in that day and age, it was often for political and economic reasons as much as any.

There was also the issue of the Church being in a great period of poverty, and being unable to support offspring of the ordained. For that reason, the preference was to choose for priests among those who had been called to celibacy. It has solved so many problems that it has been continued as a discipline, especially in the Latin Rite.

The Eastern Rites, not having the political and economic issues at work in Europe to a large extent, did not adopt this discipline, but still prefer it.

 

[inthecloud]

What is a cult?
Generally, it is a group that is unorthodox, esoteric, and has a devotion to a person, object, or a set of new ideas.
New Teaching - has a new theology and doctrine.

Many evangelicals doctrines date from the 1800s or even more recent.

Only True Teaching - often considers traditional religious systems to be apostate and it alone possess the complete truth.

Most fundamentalist evangelical Pastor teach that their reading of the Bible is the right one and everybody else in going to Hell.

Strong Leadership - often an individual or small but powerful leadership group holds control of the group’s teachings and practices.

Most fundamentalist evangelical Churches have a Pastor and a small group of elders that control the congregation teachings and beliefs.

Asset Acquirement - often requires tithing and/or property transfer to the religious system.

Most fundamentelist evangelicals have mandatory 10% tilding and their Pastors are always looking for donations.

Isolationist - to facilitate control over the members physically, intellectually, financially, and emotionally.

Separation, rightly divided, sound familiar? All fundamentalist teach separation and insolation from the group.

Controlling - exercises control over the members. Sometimes this is through fear, threatening loss of salvation if you leave the group. Sometimes through indoctrination.

All Churches indoctrinate, the fundamentalists do threaten people who left them with apostasy and Hell.

Indoctrination - possesses methods to reinforce the cult’s beliefs and standards where opposing views are ridiculed and often misrepresented.

Fundamentalists oftem misrepresent Catholic beliefs and ridicule them.

Apocalyptic - to give the members a future focus and philosophical purpose in avoiding the apocalypse or being delivered through it.

The Rapture anyone. That is what most fundamentalists preach today.

Experience - various practices including meditation, repetition of words and/or phrases, and ‘spiritual’ enlightenment with God are used as confirmation of their truth.

Speaking in tonges, feeling the emotional high of being saved.

Depravation - sleep and food deprivation which weakens the will of the subject.
This is uncommon, though practiced by more severe cults

Fasting, speking in tonges. The Catholics do that but not to the length of fundies.

Persecution - predictions of being persecuted and often combined with claiming any opposing views demonstrated against them as a form of persecution.

The Pope is the Antichrist, The Vatican has list of Protestants. The Word Goverment is coming. Who teaches paranoia? Jack Chick, Dave Hunt. Who teaches paranoia?

All the characteristics of Cults you said apply to fundamentalist evangelical protestants. All of them minus meditation or ilumination. But remember. Charismatics speak in tonges.

Fundies calling Catholcism a Cult see the straw in the CC eyes but not the Brookling Bridge in their eyes in their eyes.

 

[Memaw]

Estesbob: I can tell you have no answers to anything I have given you. You would do well to listen then. I have not cut and pasted anything here. I answered all questions with clear scripture as I have done in all my posts. You then resort to slanderous statements and try to rally others to your side because you have no idea where to go. That lostness you are feeling can be changed. Stop trying to ignore the fact that you have been answered with truth and now you have nothing left to say but attack.

Were on to you Brink, your tactics won’t work anymore.

 

[Memaw]

I don’t view the CC as a cult. It is a well organized institution. However, many individuals within the church displayed ‘cult-like’ tendencies, esp. in the early and mid 1900’s.

A Cult in the TRUE sense of the word means to honor someone, it does NOT mean to take away their free will. The Catholic Church teaches, and has ALWAYS taught, our “free will” is a God given gift that we must learn to use according to HIS Will. HE gave us a free will so that we could, would “freely” choose to love and serve HIM on earth and thus spend Eternity with HIM in Heaven. Its OUR choice. THY WILL be done, on earth as it is in Heaven!

Those who try to compare Christ’s True Church to the modern day “cults” have really gone to far. It proves to me just how desperate they are in their hatred for the Catholic Church. A psychiatrist friend of mine once told me that those who always run someone else down, have a very low opinion of themselves and they do that to try to make themselves look better than the ones they are demeaning. That says a lot about those that continually and viciously spread lies about the Catholic Faith.

 

[Memaw]

There are many factors in the implementation of this discipline. Property was one, because the Church did not want to mix any secular power with spiritual authority. When people married in that day and age, it was often for political and economic reasons as much as any.

There was also the issue of the Church being in a great period of poverty, and being unable to support offspring of the ordained. For that reason, the preference was to choose for priests among those who had been called to celibacy. It has solved so many problems that it has been continued as a discipline, especially in the Latin Rite.

The Eastern Rites, not having the political and economic issues at work in Europe to a large extent, did not adopt this discipline, but still prefer it.

The reason for celibacy is so those being ordained may serve GOD with a greater singleness of purpose. Cor. 7:32. This must be “freely” chosen as Christ said so in Mt. 19:11-12. Although celibacy was practiced by the majority of clergy in the first 3 centuries of the Catholic Church, it was after the Council of Elvira in 305 that the law became more definite. A council held in Rome in 386 and two later councils in Carthage, imposed continence on all bishops, priests and deacons.