Is The Catholic Church against the death penalty?

[notredame_999]

Can I, a traditional Catholic, admire the use of capital punishment as used in the State of Texas? Didn’t Pope Pius X and other popes of his era strongly defend the practice, as outlawing capital punishment originated in marxism (Hence why most left-wing liberals are against it today)?

 

[damooster]

Maybe this quote from St. Thomas Aquinas can help you out:

The fate of the wicked being open to conversion so long as they live does not preclude their being open also to the just punishment of death. Indeed the danger threatening the community from their life is greater and more certain than the good expected by their conversion. Besides, in the hour of death, they have every facility for turning to God by repentance. And if they are so obstinate that even in the hour of death their heart will not go back upon its wickedness, a fairly probable reckoning may be made that they never would have returned to a better mind.

 

[GEddie]

Can I, a traditional Catholic, admire the use of capital punishment as used in the State of Texas? Didn’t Pope Pius X and other popes of his era strongly defend the practice, as outlawing capital punishment originated in marxism (Hence why most left-wing liberals are against it today)?

You can feel however you want about the death penalty, as the Church has left the issue open.

But you are wrong about Marxism. The first country to get rid of the death penalty was Venezuela in 1863, well before Marxism became a movement; and they were not Marxists.

Also, no country that became communist stayed rid of the death penalty; all used it with gusto as part of their system of social control.

God Bless and ICXC NIKA.

 

[faithfully]

Can I, a traditional Catholic, admire the use of capital punishment as used in the State of Texas? Didn’t Pope Pius X and other popes of his era strongly defend the practice, as outlawing capital punishment originated in marxism (Hence why most left-wing liberals are against it today)?

Admire?

 

[GEddie]

outlawing capital punishment originated in marxism (Hence why most left-wing liberals are against it today)?

Even if Marxists supported outlawing the death penalty (which never became the norm in countries they took over) that does not intrinsically make that a wrong idea; everybody gets some things right.

Abolition of the DP stems from a valuation of the human individual; while the philosophical crowd seems to care only about society. But there can’t be a society without living individuals.

 

[Hiskid1973]

How about exile to an island…Give em shelter, supplies to get them started…Sensors to check inbound outbound craft…Let them care for themselves…
Save a ton of taxpayer money…Job loss would be the only downside…But hey we could use the extra labor to secure the border…

 

[Cruxis117]

Can I, a traditional Catholic, admire the use of capital punishment as used in the State of Texas? Didn’t Pope Pius X and other popes of his era strongly defend the practice, as outlawing capital punishment originated in marxism (Hence why most left-wing liberals are against it today)?

In my opinion, I say HECK NO! Why?

By the way you call yourself a “traditional Catholic”, I’ll assume that means that you’re pro-life. This is how I see it, you cannot be pro-life and pro-Capital Punishment. this is because it’s contradictory, saying that babies have the right to live, but criminals don’t. Even though they are human, just as much as the rest of us.

While I agree that we must have laws to protect the citizens of a country, Capital Punishment is not something that should be lawful, the same way abortion shouldn’t.
Do you realize how much money is wasted on Capital Punishment?

One criminal (or inmate, or whatever word you choose) who is to go under the death penalty can, with the amount of money from trials as well as the “stays” that often happen, can run the amount of money up to the millions. And for some reason, this is considered…sensible? It costs more to give one prisoner Capital Punishment than it costs to actually house the same prisoner for the REST OF HIS LIFE.

Capital Punishment is Immoral, Expensive, and Illogical.

 

[archangel04]

In my opinion, I say HECK NO! Why?

By the way you call yourself a “traditional Catholic”, I’ll assume that means that you’re pro-life. This is how I see it, you cannot be pro-life and pro-Capital Punishment. this is because it’s contradictory, saying that babies have the right to live, but criminals don’t. Even though they are human, just as much as the rest of us.

While I agree that we must have laws to protect the citizens of a country, Capital Punishment is not something that should be lawful, the same way abortion shouldn’t.
Do you realize how much money is wasted on Capital Punishment?

One criminal (or inmate, or whatever word you choose) who is to go under the death penalty can, with the amount of money from trials as well as the “stays” that often happen, can run the amount of money up to the millions. And for some reason, this is considered…sensible? It costs more to give one prisoner Capital Punishment than it costs to actually house the same prisoner for the REST OF HIS LIFE.

Capital Punishment is Immoral, Expensive, and Illogical.

From your comments you really have no real experience in the prison system. Many people claim we have the best jail system in the world, although there is some truth to that it’s not 100% fail-proof. There are many prisoners who have no intention of conversion even if you gave them 100 years to do so. Some are very dangerous and pose great risk to prison staff, I personally know many who have been attacked and almost killed by prisoners in a county jail. There have been many dangerous prisoners who have escaped jail. It’s more expensive to have lifers then the death penalty. Although it would be great for no need for capital punishment, the reality is that it’s still sadly needed.

 

[PatrickSebast]

From your comments you really have no real experience in the prison system. Many people claim we have the best jail system in the world, although there is some truth to that it’s not 100% fail-proof. There are many prisoners who have no intention of conversion even if you gave them 100 years to do so. Some are very dangerous and pose great risk to prison staff, I personally know many who have been attacked and almost killed by prisoners in a county jail. There have been many dangerous prisoners who have escaped jail. It’s more expensive to have lifers then the death penalty. Although it would be great for no need for capital punishment, the reality is that it’s still sadly needed.

Almost every study I have seen states that the death penalty is more expensive (due to appeals and what not). I’m not sure you were accurate with that statement.

 

[Nine_Two]

You can feel however you want about the death penalty, as the Church has left the issue open.

But you are wrong about Marxism. The first country to get rid of the death penalty was Venezuela in 1863, well before Marxism became a movement; and they were not Marxists.

Also, no country that became communist stayed rid of the death penalty; all used it with gusto as part of their system of social control.

God Bless and ICXC NIKA.

Actually the first country to get rid of the death penalty was Kievan Rus, when it converted to Christianity.

 

[Cruxis117]

From your comments you really have no real experience in the prison system. Many people claim we have the best jail system in the world, although there is some truth to that it’s not 100% fail-proof. There are many prisoners who have no intention of conversion even if you gave them 100 years to do so. Some are very dangerous and pose great risk to prison staff, I personally know many who have been attacked and almost killed by prisoners in a county jail. There have been many dangerous prisoners who have escaped jail. It’s more expensive to have lifers then the death penalty. Although it would be great for no need for capital punishment, the reality is that it’s still sadly needed.

A 2003 legislative audit in Kansas found that the estimated cost of a death penalty case was 70% more than the cost of a comparable non-death penalty case. Death penalty case costs were counted through to execution (median cost $1.26 million). Non-death penalty case costs were counted through to the end of incarceration (median cost $740,000).(December 2003 Survey by the Kansas Legislative Post Audit)

In Tennessee, death penalty trials cost an average of 48% more than the average cost of trials in which prosecutors seek life imprisonment.
(2004 Report from Tennessee Comptroller of the Treasury Office of Research)

In Maryland death penalty cases cost 3 times more than non-death penalty cases, or $3 million for a single case.
(Urban Institute, The Cost of the Death Penalty in Maryland, March 2008)

In California the current system costs $137 million per year; it would cost $11.5 million for a system without the death penalty.
(California Commission for the Fair Administration of Justice, July 2008)

I’m sorry, but you are highly mistaken, therefore showing a large amount of ignorance in this matter.

 

[thistle]

Can I, a traditional Catholic, admire the use of capital punishment as used in the State of Texas? Didn’t Pope Pius X and other popes of his era strongly defend the practice, as outlawing capital punishment originated in marxism (Hence why most left-wing liberals are against it today)?

The Church does NOT support the death penalty. What it does is accepts that it may be necessary in very rare instances. That is different from supporting the death penalty. As Catholics we are free to support the death penalty or not.
If you “admire” killing someone and think it should happen more often the Church does not agree with you. I think you need help!!

CCC 2267 Assuming that the guilty party’s identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.

If, however, non-lethal means are sufficient to defend and protect people’s safety from the aggressor, authority will limit itself to such means, as these are more in keeping with the concrete conditions of the common good and more in conformity to the dignity of the human person.

Today, in fact, as a consequence of the possibilities which the state has for effectively preventing crime, by rendering one who has committed an offense incapable of doing harm - without definitely taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself -** the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity “are very rare, if not practically nonexistent.”**

 

[GEddie]

How about exile to an island…Give em shelter, supplies to get them started…Sensors to check inbound outbound craft…Let them care for themselves…
Save a ton of taxpayer money…Job loss would be the only downside…But hey we could use the extra labor to secure the border…

I’d say great…but this country has no islands of sufficient size that could acceptably be converted to a prison.

And no, I am not a supporter of the d.p. ICXC NIKA

 

[Nine_Two]

I’d say great…but this country has no islands of sufficient size that could acceptably be converted to a prison.

And no, I am not a supporter of the d.p. ICXC NIKA

You’ve got Alaska though.

 

[Sword_Brethren]

Yes, child molesters, rapists and murders should all be executed.

 

[blue]

In my opinion, I say HECK NO! Why?

By the way you call yourself a “traditional Catholic”, I’ll assume that means that you’re pro-life. This is how I see it, you cannot be pro-life and pro-Capital Punishment. this is because it’s contradictory, saying that babies have the right to live, but criminals don’t. Even though they are human, just as much as the rest of us.

I could’nt disagree more, if someone is such a danger to others, the idea that they need to be locked up for the rest of thier lives ( which is a punishment worst than death ) is criminal. Capital Punishment to save innocent lives of certain future victims ( which is similar to the prolife stance ) is the moral oblagation of a just society. The Innocent victims past, present and future have rights to live as well.

While I agree that we must have laws to protect the citizens of a country, Capital Punishment is not something that should be lawful, the same way abortion shouldn’t.
Do you realize how much money is wasted on Capital Punishment?

Laws protect the innocent, Capital Punishment protects the innocent and ending abortion protects the innocent. The cost of protecting human life can not and should not be the facter here, in the dicision of torturing ( by locking him up ) a human to till death or Justly use Capital Punishment for the good of society and true christian morality seems a no brainer and should win out here.

One criminal (or inmate, or whatever word you choose) who is to go under the death penalty can, with the amount of money from trials as well as the “stays” that often happen, can run the amount of money up to the millions. And for some reason, this is considered…sensible? It costs more to give one prisoner Capital Punishment than it costs to actually house the same prisoner for the REST OF HIS LIFE.

Capital Punishment is Immoral, Expensive, and Illogical

I could’t disagree more, Immoral and Illogical no way, Expensive yes this could and should be changed also. Mosy humbly, my the Lord bless you all…

 

[Sword_Brethren]

This is how I see it, you cannot be pro-life and pro-Capital Punishment. this is because it’s contradictory saying that babies have the right to live, but criminals don’t. Even though they are human, just as much as the rest of us.

The innocent unborn have committed no crimes. Criminals that are executed have committed crimes, like murder. It is not contradictory at all to be pro-life and pro-capital punishment.

 

[PatrickSebast]

** Expensive yes this could and should be changed also. Mosy humbly, my the Lord bless you all…**

How could this be changed? The appeals process for the death penalty is lengthly because they are trying to avoid killing an innocent person and it has been proven time and again that despite how much time and effort is put into the investigation process innocent people are sometimes put to death.

 

[archangel04]

A 2003 legislative audit in Kansas found that the estimated cost of a death penalty case was 70% more than the cost of a comparable non-death penalty case. Death penalty case costs were counted through to execution (median cost $1.26 million). Non-death penalty case costs were counted through to the end of incarceration (median cost $740,000).(December 2003 Survey by the Kansas Legislative Post Audit)

In Tennessee, death penalty trials cost an average of 48% more than the average cost of trials in which prosecutors seek life imprisonment.
(2004 Report from Tennessee Comptroller of the Treasury Office of Research)

In Maryland death penalty cases cost 3 times more than non-death penalty cases, or $3 million for a single case.
(Urban Institute, The Cost of the Death Penalty in Maryland, March 2008)

In California the current system costs $137 million per year; it would cost $11.5 million for a system without the death penalty.
(California Commission for the Fair Administration of Justice, July 2008)

I’m sorry, but you are highly mistaken, therefore showing a large amount of ignorance in this matter.

Perhaps you are right even then the death penalty is still needed, especailly in countries who’s prison systems are not as good as our. By the the thank you very much for the charitable comment.

 

[blue]

How could this be changed? The appeals process for the death penalty is lengthly because they are trying to avoid killing an innocent person and it has been proven time and again that despite how much time and effort is put into the investigation process innocent people are sometimes put to death.

If your asking for a perfect system run by men (stained by original sin) I see your point. Even our Lords perfectly hand picked 12 (perfect to thier purpose) were not perfect. However Ironclad cases do exist, and many abuses in the system can be corrected, the use modern science will help, and finally some will have to be locked up long term or released because we cant get it right and innocent people should not be killed.