Is The Catholic Church against the death penalty?

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Matthew_Holford said:
I could tell you but I won’t. You see I enjoy being a member of CAF and answering your question would infringe the Forum’s rules. May be I can borrow one of your phrases: “work it out for yourself”.
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I really don’t know what you’re talking about.
 
Matthew_Holford said:
You flatter yourself.
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Following me around and acting as if I had any idea what you’re bothered about isn’t on topic for this thread. So stick to whatever points you’re trying to make about the DP and drop the ad homs.
 
Reservoir_Dog said:
Following me around and acting as if I had any idea what you’re bothered about isn’t on topic for this thread. So stick to whatever points you’re trying to make about the DP and drop the ad homs.
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I am not following you around. I’m just responding to your own pointless posts. Although I did originally post a response to yours with an appropriate statement you were the one who decided to respond with as I believe you would call them ‘wisecracks’. You reap what you sow. Of course you have the option of not responding.
 
Reservoir_Dog said:
Don’t throw biblical quotes at me, this isn’t protestant forum. I won’t read them anyway, I know what you’re saying.

I visit plenty of people in prison, its part of my job. I’m trying to remember if I ever met one who didn’t belong there but I just can’t. We’re talking about stone cold SOBs who run narcotics distribution rings from inside prison, right? And people who can and do order the murder of associates and rivals, right? As defense counsel I have easier access to incarcerated clients than family members do so I’ve been indirectly approached to use this access to play messenger boy for these people. This is how they operate. These aren’t lost little lambs waiting to be shown the light of God’s love. If you executed them you’d be doing them a favor by preventing them from even more egregious sinning.
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So you won’t read the Scriptures? That explains a lot.

The Church is built upon Tradition and Scripture, you can not ignore it.

As for that being a protestant thing, I see you label yourself an Anglo-Catholic, you are aware that this Anglicanism (even High Church Anglicans, are protestants).

I have not seen anyone here argue that those in prison should not be in prison or should not be punished for their crimes.

But I did see you argue against bringing those in prison God’s Love.

As for executing them. I am not for the killing of criminals. I am not against capital punishment but I am against the way it is applied in the United States.

I will add, I would rather hundreds of criminals go free than for one innocent man to be executed.

The system in the United States have had men proven innocent that were sitting on death row and I even believe there have been cases of proving the innocence of men after they have been executed.
 
I removed 35 off-topic and argumentative posts and gave out infractions for derailing the thread. I cannot sit here and do this every evening with every thread. I’m sorry. If it derails again, the thread will be closed.

Thomas Casey
Moderator
 
I aplogize for the way this forum was titled, it was not mature. Although I do strongly disagree with our late Pope John Paul II’s Evangelium Vitale. Any serial killer/serial child rapist who is convicted in a court of law in my opinion the state has a right to execute.
 
Reservoir_Dog said:
I’m wondering what showing God’s love to a prison gang drug lord will accomplish except make the anti-DP people feel better.
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While drug gangsters might be the epitome of human evil to our mind, it doth behoove us to remember that slave-ship captains and even persecutors of the Church have come to repentance.

Anybody can repent and come to grace. But you can’t repent unless you are breathing.

God Bless and ICXC NIKA.
 
ByzCath said:
I will add, I would rather hundreds of criminals go free than for one innocent man to be executed.
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Bravo. It takes courage to say that in the USA.
The system in the United States have had men proven innocent that were sitting on death row and I even believe there have been cases of proving the innocence of men after they have been executed.
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There seems to be such an instance coming to light at present here in TX.

God bless and ICXC NIKA
 
notredame_999 said:
I aplogize for the way this forum was titled, it was not mature. Although I do strongly disagree with our late Pope John Paul II’s Evangelium Vitale. Any serial killer/serial child rapist who is convicted in a court of law in my opinion the state has a right to execute.
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That’s your opinion, and you have a right to it, but in your disagreeing with the Pope, I myself would go with the Pope.

ICXC NIKA
 
I heard this on the radio last week … the top five nations in the world which apply capital punishment:

China

Iraq

Iran

Saudi Arabia

USA
 
notredame_999 said:
I aplogize for the way this forum was titled, it was not mature. Although I do strongly disagree with our late Pope John Paul II’s Evangelium Vitale. Any serial killer/serial child rapist who is convicted in a court of law in my opinion the state has a right to execute.
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I believe that the Supreme Court has already ruled, or at least some States’ Supreme Courts have ruled that the death penalty can only be used in cases of murder. That non-murder cases (serial child rapist) can not be a capital case.

That is something I agree with. Capital punishment needs to be balanced. But as I said before many times, though I support capital punishment I am against its application at the State level in the United States.
 
Evangelium Vitae is addressing an ancient point in moral theology, the difference between the righ to do something and the obligation to do something. What the Holy Father is saying is that even though the Church acknowledges the right of the state to execute, the state must acknowledge that it ought not make use of that right, because it does not contribute to the plan of salvation.

The right to execute is granted for a purpose, to protect the innocent and to punish the guilty. These are temporal ends that contribute nothing to the salvation of the condemned. The state has a moral duty to ask itself if this is the only way to achieve a temporal end. The Church wisely points out, that it is very rarely the case when there is no other means to protect the innocent and to punish the guilty.

It is also very rare that the state exercises this right without prejudice. As Brother David wisely said, it is better to take our chances, using other means at our disposal, than to risk killing a single innocent man.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
hxcCatholic413 said:
pro-life and pro-capital punishment is a contradiction. What happens in an abortion? murder of an innocent child What happens in the death penalty? murder of a criminal. In great times of distress and anger we fail to see the goodness of the human person. At first glance when we hear that a heinous crime has occurred we might instinctively think that the responsible party should be put to death; HOWEVER as Catholics the ability to love unconditionally needs to be realized within this situation. To see that this person is not a monster, but a child of God is key just like those who say a baby is no more than a collection of cells, rather than a beautiful child of God. Only God can end a person’s life, a man should NEVER end another man’s life. It’s as simple as that, a basic teaching of the Church. May the Holy Spirit grant the gifts of wisdom, understanding, counsel, fortitude and knowledge to each and ever one of us. God Bless!
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Always remember Christ final words , “forgive them father they know not what they do.” those words were for all of humanity, not just those people who chose Barabbas.
 
ByzCath said:
I believe that the Supreme Court has already ruled, or at least some States’ Supreme Courts have ruled that the death penalty can only be used in cases of murder. That non-murder cases (serial child rapist) can not be a capital case.

That is something I agree with. Capital punishment needs to be balanced. But as I said before many times, though I support capital punishment I am against its application at the State level in the United States.
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The supreme court of the united states also said a woman could have her baby killed in the first 2/3 of her pregnancy. That same court also said pornography is protected under the first ammendment. That court also has de-christianized america in the public square to the point of the soviet union.
 
This is a Call for Courtesy, Please.

1 Corinthians 13:2

And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love,** I am nothing **

Anger, hostility and ridicule - these are not fruits of the spirit.

Help me wage war on rudeness! Join the group below 👍
 
notredame_999 said:
The supreme court of the united states also said a woman could have her baby killed in the first 2/3 of her pregnancy. That same court also said pornography is protected under the first ammendment. That court also has de-christianized america in the public square to the point of the soviet union.
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That’s not the way that moral law works. The fact that the Supreme Court has legalized some immoral positions does not invalidate the moral decisions that it has made. What’s right remains right and what’s wrong is always wrong. If we invalidate the good, because of the bad, then we’re doomed. All of us have sinned and all of us have exercised virtue.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
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