Is the Catholic church changing its stand on actively proselytizing Jews?

[Sepharad]

Since finding this site, I have followed a number of links which were posted, to websites by Catholics of Jewish origin who seek to convert Jews to Catholicism. While their activity is limited or negligible, I do have one concern.

For 30 years I have been actively involved in both countermissionary efforts designed to educate Jews about evangelical Protestant efforts to convert them (who often do it via deception, such as posing as Jews.) But I have also been involved in Jewish-Christian ecumenical relations efforts, to gain better understanding between the Jewish and Christian faiths (most of our work has been with the Catholic church.)

This work has been relatively easy, for one major reason: for the past 40 years or so, the official Catholic church has been more moderate than they were before Vatican II, as far as the Jews is concerned. The church does not advocate actively singling out Jews for conversion, but believes in evangelizing all people, without targeting any one group as evangelicals often do.

Some of the sites I visited by Catholics of Jewish origin, say that they try to “stay under the radar of the antimissionaries” by not actively proselytizing Jews, but waiting until Jews come to them. (This is because they recognize that we only concern ourselves with Christians groups that actively target Jews for conversion.)

However, some of the other sites do seem to actively proselytize, and many in the Jewish community wonder if this new sea change in the Catholic church (becoming more conservative, more traditional) will also signal a change in Jewish-Catholic relations, including concerning their current stance on not singling out Jews for conversion.

So in brief, do you think the current changes going on toward a much more conservative church (under this new Pope) may signal problems for Jewish-Catholic relations?

 

[jwkovacs]

To answer the question you posed in your last paragraph: First, I do not think that the Church’s position has changed with the coming of Pope Benedict XVI, nor do I think that there are problems on the horizon for Jewish-Catholic relations.

Here are a few quotes from the Pope that express his position–which is the position of the Catholic Church.

From an August 19, 2005, address while at World Youth Day in Germany, the Pope addressed the Jewish community in the Synagogue of Cologne:

“Today too I wish to reaffirm that I intend to continue on the path towards improved relations and friendship with the Jewish People, following the decisive lead given by Pope John Paul II (cf. Address to the Delegation of the International Jewish Committee on Interreligious Consultations, 9 June 2005: L’Osservatore Romano, 10 June 2005, p. 5).”

…

"This year also marks the fortieth anniversary of the promulgation of the Second Vatican Council’s Declaration Nostra Aetate, which opened up new prospects for Jewish-Christian relations in terms of dialogue and solidarity. This Declaration, in the fourth chapter, recalls the common roots and the immensely rich spiritual heritage that Jews and Christians share.

"Both Jews and Christians recognize in Abraham their father in faith (cf. Gal 3:7, Rom 4:11ff.) and they look to the teachings of Moses and the prophets. Jewish spirituality, like its Christian counterpart, draws nourishment from the psalms. With Saint Paul, Christians are convinced that “the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable” (Rom 11:29, cf. 9:6,11; 11:1ff.). In considering the Jewish roots of Christianity (cf. Rom 11:16-24), my venerable Predecessor, quoting a statement by the German Bishops, affirmed that: “whoever meets Jesus Christ meets Judaism” (Insegnamenti, vol. III/2, 1980, p. 1272).

“The conciliar Declaration Nostra Aetate therefore “deplores feelings of hatred, persecutions and demonstrations of antisemitism directed against the Jews at whatever time and by whomsoever” (No. 4). God created us all “in his image” (cf. Gen 1:27) and thus honoured us with a transcendent dignity. Before God, all men and women have the same dignity, whatever their nation, culture or religion.”

…

"Yet much still remains to be done. We must come to know one another much more and much better.

"Consequently I would encourage sincere and trustful dialogue between Jews and Christians, for only in this way will it be possible to arrive at a shared interpretation of disputed historical questions, and, above all, to make progress towards a theological evaluation of the relationship between Judaism and Christianity.

"This dialogue, if it is to be sincere, must not gloss over or underestimate the existing differences: in those areas in which, due to our profound convictions in faith, we diverge, and indeed precisely in those areas, we need to show respect for one another.

“Finally, our gaze should not only be directed to the past, but should also look forward to the tasks that await us today and tomorrow. Our rich common heritage and our fraternal and more trusting relations call upon us to join in giving an ever more harmonious witness and to work together on the practical level for the defence and promotion of human rights and the sacredness of human life, for family values, for social justice and for peace in the world.”

I’m sorry for the length of the quotations. I thought it was important, though, to capture well the Pope’s thoughts.

Finally, I wanted to quote from the Pope’s recent visit to the US, when he visited the Jewish community at the Park East Synagogue in New York on April 18, 2008:

“With respect and friendship, I therefore ask the Jewish community to accept my Pesah greeting in a spirit of openness to the real possibilities of cooperation which we see before us as we contemplate the urgent needs of our world, and as we look with compassion upon the sufferings of millions of our brothers and sisters everywhere. Naturally, our shared hope for peace in the world embraces the Middle East and the Holy Land in particular. May the memory of God’s mercies, which Jews and Christians celebrate at this festive time, inspire all those responsible for the future of that region—where the events surrounding God’s revelation actually took place—to new efforts, and especially to new attitudes and a new purification of hearts!”

---

As you noted in your post, the Catholic Church believes in evangelizing all peoples; that has not changed. That does include Jews, of course, but not in the sense of proselytizing, which is different from evangelizing. And it seems from the Pope’s words that he is committed to continuing the efforts begun by Vatican II and carried forward so well by Pope John Paul II. I don’t think that there is anything to worry about. Pope Benedict XVI is both brilliant and pastoral, and he wants what is best for all peoples.

 

[Robbinson]

I don’t think a sincere conversion (thus one that sticks) from Judaism (or any other religion) to Christianity is ever effected by debate or intellectual argument. I believe it occurs only by action of the Holy Spirt after hearing the gospel.

In the interests of full disclosure, I am a Jew who came to believe that Jesus is the Messiah. I was baptized several years ago - currently worshiping as part of a Protestant denomination (with fellowship with messianic jews), though also drawn towards Catholicism (that’s another story).

My spiritual journey arose from hearing the gospel (not from other evengical efforts) and then my own soul searching of the scriptures. I learned more about my Judaism than in my preceding years (40+ at the time) practicing Judaism - reading everything I could get my hands on from various perspectives, prayer and introspection.

To answer your direct question - I dont think we (Jews) should fear the gospels or evangelism. If they are not true and not of God, then they will come to nothing in the long run visa a vie the Jewish people. If they are true (as I sincerely and full heartedly believe they are), then it is the power of God and nothing we can do will thwart God’s plan (I believe my Jewish bretheren would agree with that).

Obviously, deception would be unacceptable - but candidly, that type of evangelism represents a small percentage - that would not be a Christian thing to do and the motivation of most Christians who evangelize is the share the Word of God. I recognize there are exceptions.

Blessings,

Brian

 

[BlestOne]

Sepharad:

However, some of the other sites do seem to actively proselytize, and many in the Jewish community wonder if this new sea change in the Catholic church (becoming more conservative, more traditional) will also signal a change in Jewish-Catholic relations, including concerning their current stance on not singling out Jews for conversion.

Links please?

In my experience (cradle Catholic and 45 yrs of living a Catholic life) I have only ever seen the deepest respect for Jews by Catholics. My parish hosted a talk from the local Rabbi to tell us about all the symbolism in the passover meal… I took 4 pages of notes… I was mesmerized by the history lesson!

 

[angelusm]

So in brief, do you think the current changes going on toward a much more conservative church (under this new Pope) may signal problems for Jewish-Catholic relations?

We have to preach the Gospel to everybody, not only to Jews. That’s what Jesus wants us to do. Salvation is only in the name of Jesus. If you reject him, you also reject the Father who sent him. What kind of problems do you mean? We just do what we have to do. The real problem is Jewish activity in all kinds of anti-Catholic movements. The problems already exist, we don’t create them.

 

[Yerusalyim]

We have to preach the Gospel to everybody, not only to Jews. That’s what Jesus wants us to do. Salvation is only in the name of Jesus. If you reject him, you also reject the Father who sent him. What kind of problems do you mean? We just do what we have to do. The real problem is Jewish activity in all kinds of anti-Catholic movements. The problems already exist, we don’t create them.

"Jewish activity in all kinds of anti-Catholic movements? " What on earth are you talking about.

 

[Kaninchen]

I suppose that it really rather depends on what one means by the word ‘actively’.

I’ve never been in the market for a new religion but I’m much more impressed by the way the way that people I know of various religions live their lives and the rationale for them doing so than the kind of ham-fisted attempts at proselytizing that go on.

 

[judcath4]

I am a Jew who converted to Catholicism on my own. Mostly the Catholic people I know are not in your face types. There are however ‘other’ Christian sects who are in your face about it.
One has to find Christ on his own with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. There can be no other way. Sephard, have you ever read the New Testament? Just curious. Have you ever read about the Early Church Fathers? Lives of the Saints? Hav you ever been inside a Catholic church, when the Mass was going on?

 

[Sepharad]

I am a Jew who converted to Catholicism on my own. Mostly the Catholic people I know are not in your face types. There are however ‘other’ Christian sects who are in your face about it.
One has to find Christ on his own with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. There can be no other way. Sephard, have you ever read the New Testament? Just curious. Have you ever read about the Early Church Fathers? Lives of the Saints? Hav you ever been inside a Catholic church, when the Mass was going on?

Hello,

Maybe you should read some of my older posts; that will save me a lot of typing.

To make a long story very short, I have been a countermissionary in the Jewish community for 30 years. So naturally, I am very, very familiar with the NT. My husband is also a former Baptist-turned-7th Day Adventist, who converted to Orthodox Judaism. He is also very familiar with the NT.

I also volunteer as an exit counselor, which means I work with a Jewish organization that assists Jews seeking to return to Judaism from religions they had once converted to (like Catholicism, Protestantism, Buddhism and the like.) Many of the Jews who do this work are either Jews who have spent years studying and learning about other religions that Jews are likely to convert to, or we are returnees to Judaism from other faiths, who now seek to help other Jews exit as well.

As for your question about Catholic churches: half my family is Catholic because my mother was a convert to Orthodox Judaism. I have been exposed to traditional Catholicism since childhood, via my mother’s family, and yes I have been to Catholic Masses in the past. I also have an aunt who is a nun.

Does that answer your question?

 

[Sepharad]

We have to preach the Gospel to everybody, not only to Jews. That’s what Jesus wants us to do. Salvation is only in the name of Jesus. If you reject him, you also reject the Father who sent him. What kind of problems do you mean? We just do what we have to do. The real problem is Jewish activity in all kinds of anti-Catholic movements. The problems already exist, we don’t create them.

I’ve heard some more traditional Catholics say that they feel some Jews convert to Catholicism so as to ‘destroy the church from within’ (they specifically mentioned the late Cardinal Bea, who was a Jew who became Catholic and then proceeded to institute all kinds of liberal ideas and agendas.)

I’d be curious to know what you think of their feelings on that?

 

[judcath4]

Hello,

Maybe you should read some of my older posts; that will save me a lot of typing.

To make a long story very short, I have been a countermissionary in the Jewish community for 30 years. So naturally, I am very, very familiar with the NT. My husband is also a former Baptist-turned-7th Day Adventist, who converted to Orthodox Judaism. He is also very familiar with the NT.

I also volunteer as an exit counselor, which means I work with a Jewish organization that assists Jews seeking to return to Judaism from religions they had once converted to (like Catholicism, Protestantism, Buddhism and the like.) Many of the Jews who do this work are either Jews who have spent years studying and learning about other religions that Jews are likely to convert to, or we are returnees to Judaism from other faiths, who now seek to help other Jews exit as well.

As for your question about Catholic churches: half my family is Catholic because my mother was a convert to Orthodox Judaism. I have been exposed to traditional Catholicism since childhood, via my mother’s family, and yes I have been to Catholic Masses in the past. I also have an aunt who is a nun.

Does that answer your question?

Yes it answers my question. I’m sorry because you sound a little hostile. I didn’t mean to offend you. Please forgive me.

 

[judcath4]

I’ve heard some more traditional Catholics say that they feel some Jews convert to Catholicism so as to ‘destroy the church from within’ (they specifically mentioned the late Cardinal Bea, who was a Jew who became Catholic and then proceeded to institute all kinds of liberal ideas and agendas.)

I’d be curious to know what you think of their feelings on that?

Oh my, I would never believe this for one minute. I am not here to destroy the church but to fulfill it.

 

[Sepharad]

Yes it answers my question. I’m sorry because you sound a little hostile. I didn’t mean to offend you. Please forgive me.

There is a long, long history on this forum as to why I might sometimes sound that way. I have decided to return here, but to ignore those who try to persist in converting or provoking me, once they know where I stand on the issue.

 

[BlestOne]

I’ve heard some more traditional Catholics say that they feel some Jews convert to Catholicism so as to ‘destroy the church from within’ (they specifically mentioned the late Cardinal Bea, who was a Jew who became Catholic and then proceeded to institute all kinds of liberal ideas and agendas.)

I’d be curious to know what you think of their feelings on that?

I have never heard of any Jews doing this. I guess I have been very blest because my experience is with very conservative orthodox jews… and I don’t believe their moral stances on basic issues is any different than mine.

I have however truly seen and experienced satanists doing this. My ex husband went into the seminary as a satanist to destroy the Church from within… thankfully he never made it…

 

[Sepharad]

I have never heard of any Jews doing this. I guess I have been very blest because my experience is with very conservative orthodox jews… and I don’t believe their moral stances on basic issues is any different than mine.

I have however truly seen and experienced satanists doing this. My ex husband went into the seminary as a satanist to destroy the Church from within… thankfully he never made it…

I was asking, because I have had some more traditional Catholics tell me they think some Jews enter (and have entered) the Catholic church in order to destroy from within. They say the marranos were forced to be Catholic, and so decided to “get even” once inside the church, by doing things to harm it.

I’m just curious as to what other Catholics think of that possibility.

 

[BlestOne]

I was asking, because I have had some more traditional Catholics tell me they think some Jews enter (and have entered) the Catholic church in order to destroy from within. They say the marranos were forced to be Catholic, and so decided to “get even” once inside the church, by doing things to harm it.

I’m just curious as to what other Catholics think of that possibility.

Ummm… sounds a bit conspiracy theorist to me… how 'bout you?

I so don’t get why people are so paranoid!