Is the Catholic Church the only way to be saved?

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Atemi said:
I will have to assume the information on the very well established and respected Encyclopedia is superior to your own…
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Atemi, you are cherrypicking. The Catholic Encyclopedia cannot be superior to the Catechism. It was the Catechism which CM quoted.

We have explained to you what extra ecclesia nulla salus actually means. You are not accepting it. You are instead clinging to your own interpretation of what it means. Fine. Cling away.

Once you move beyond expressing your own preference for a false representation of Catholic teaching and move into promoting that false representation among the vulnerable and uninformed, then that’s a whole new ball game, my friend.

I reckon this thread has run its course.
 
rtconstant said:
Ah, see there is the problem. You should have been asking or at least have been listening as you were instructed in what we actually believe.
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You were the one who claimed that there are those outside of the Church that can be saved.

And you are telling me to listen?
 
Atemi said:
You were the one who claimed that there are those outside of the Church that can be saved.

And you are telling me to listen?
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#16 says:
For they who without their own fault do not know of the Gospel of Christ and His Church, but yet seek God with sincere heart, and try, under the influence of grace, to carry out His will in practice, known to them through the dictate of conscience, can attain eternal salvation.
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rtconstant said:
The “Invisible” is the Church in Heaven or the Church Victorious.
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That is not what the Encyclopedia clearly says and it is not what Gandalf said either:

“There is no invisible Church for the Church is one.”
 
Ani_Ibi said:
Atemi, you are cherrypicking. The Catholic Encyclopedia cannot be superior to the Catechism. It was the Catechism which CM quoted.
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I did not reply to CM. I was speaking to Gandalf.
We have explained to you what extra ecclesia nulla salus actually means. You are not accepting it. You are instead clinging to your own interpretation of what it means. Fine. Cling away.
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Huh?

What are you talking about?

I was not arguing against the dogma. I actually repeated it!

LOL.

What thread are you reading?
Once you move beyond expressing your own preference for a false representation of Catholic teaching and move into promoting that false representation among the vulnerable and uninformed, then that’s a whole new ball game, my friend.
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What “false representation” of Catholic teaching did I make?

That is a serious charge. I hope you can back it up.

…
 
How do you solve a problem like Atemi?
How do you catch a wave and pin it down?
How do you find a word that means Atemi? -----------

(Sorry, too much musical theatre this summer. We now leave “The Sound of Music” and return to our normally scheduled program. . .)

Seriously, all the information is either right here on Catholic Answers (the library) or in the Catechism (which many of us have provided links to in previous threads). Unfortunately, “some have ears and will not hear. . .”
 
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Atemi:
Thank you for agreeing with me and for your support.
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I don’t agree with you. But you have my support.
Ani Ibi:
We cannot say what God’s decision is viz the salvation of individual souls. However, we can say that those who are non-Catholic can be saved.
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Atemi:
**That was not the claim. **
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What the Church claims is not what you claim.
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Atemi:
The claim was that someone OUTSIDE of the Body of Christ can be saved.
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I’ve already explained this to you. If you would like to address what I actually say – and not cherrypick – then we might be able to get this discussion unstuck.
Ani Ibi:
The visible One Holy Apostolic Catholic Church.
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Atemi:
But not the invisible?
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Those who are non-Catholic and even those who claim to be Catholic but who rebel against the Magisterium can be saved – but are not necessarily saved – by means of the visible One Holy Apostolic Catholic Church provided they genuinely seek God and turn aside from error when they know error is occurring.

Now some folks do not know that it is an error to isolate themselves from the visible One Holy Apostolic Catholic Church. Some folks do know but isolate themselves anyway and these are the folks are in grave danger.

There is no such thing as an invisible Church on Earth. There is an invisible Church in Heaven. This is the Church Victorious as has been previously pointed out. And an invisible Church in Purgatory.

Church Militant = on Earth
Church Suffering = in Purgatory
Church Victorious = in Heaven

Now some folks like to say that their church is invisible. But we can see you. Peekaboo!

😃
 
Ani_Ibi said:
There is no such thing as an invisible Church on Earth.
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The Catholic Encyclopedia, with the Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur of your church says:

“Christian baptism constitutes membership in the Visible Church; the state of grace, membership in the Invisible. It is obvious that one membership does not necessarily connote the other.”

newadvent.org/cathen/03712a.htm

Again, I must defer to the CE as it has waaaay more credentials than you have.

It is clear here that indeed there is an invisible Church whose membership is those in a state of grace…not in Heaven or Purgatory.

…
 
Tantum_ergo said:
How do you solve a problem like Atemi?
How do you catch a wave and pin it down?
How do you find a word that means Atemi? -----------

(Sorry, too much musical theatre this summer. We now leave “The Sound of Music” and return to our normally scheduled program. . .)

Seriously, all the information is either right here on Catholic Answers (the library) or in the Catechism (which many of us have provided links to in previous threads). Unfortunately, “some have ears and will not hear. . .”
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And some are not reading this thread.

LOL. Oh well.
 
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Atemi:
I did not reply to CM. I was speaking to Gandalf.
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Have you noticed something about this forum, Mr Atemi? That anybody can reply? It’s a discussion.

😃
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Atemi:
Huh?
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Is that a sentence?
Ani Ibi:
We have explained to you what extra ecclesia nulla salus actually means. You are not accepting it. You are instead clinging to your own interpretation of what it means. Fine. Cling away.
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Atemi:
***What are you talking about? ***
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No salvation outside the Church = extra ecclesia nulla salus.
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Atemi:
I was not arguing against the dogma.
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Good. Then is there anything else we need to discuss or is that it for the thread?
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Atemi:
**I actually repeated it! **
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Part of it.
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Atemi:
LOL.
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:yup: :nope: 🤷
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Atemi:
What thread are you reading?
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The one I am posting on. How else could I post on it?
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Atemi:
What “false representation” of Catholic teaching did I make?
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The one you posted.
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Atemi:
That is a serious charge. I hope you can back it up.
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Did I make a charge?
 
off topic i know

i know i have like 3 or 4 posts now, and i barely can say my opinion matters but i cannot read this thread without feeling like the meaning of it is lessened with atemi’s comments. i feel like you are just picking apart any discrepincy ( <---- here i left that mis-spelled so you can correct me. 😉 ) you can find just because you can.

do you feel like you are adding a cordial and respectful attitude to this thread? Regardless of religious affiliation, i think any debate should remain always respectful

hope i’m not offending anyone by this by its just what i was thinking while reading over this thread.
 
Atemi said:
That is not what the Encyclopedia clearly says and it is not what Gandalf said either:

“There is no invisible Church for the Church is one.”
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Yes that is what the Encyclopedia says.

Gandalf was speaking about the Protestant understanding of Invisible Church.

I’m going to give you credit for actually understanding that and just assume you are trying to strawman arguments as that would be the more charitable of two options you are rapidly leaving us with here.
 
Ani_Ibi said:
Hi cascherman! Welcome to CAF! 👋
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thanks, love it so far. as with this thread, great insight on the catholic position of salvation.

so in short form pretty much the answer im seeing is …

anyone who is baptized and is a believer in Christ is unbeknownst to themselves a part of the Catholic body, though not in full communion.

…and in light of that, there can/could be salvation.
 
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