Is the Catholic Church too strict in its teaching on artificial birth control?

[centurionguard]

Questions like these have me asking how people including many Catholics can’t see that global morality today is completely shipwrecked.

But hey; go figure with the complete sickening shame of clergy members in Canada in 1968 with no backbone completely ignoring Pope Paul’s encyclical Humane Vitae in the Winnipeg Statement that made waves of negative repercussions around the world.
catholicinsight.com/online/church/humanae/article_960.shtml

Then we have the Homosexual agenda which also came from disregard and contempt of moral religious law ("Ten Commandments}, with the help of the Winnipeg Statement

1968 Winnipeg Statement to blame for “gay” agenda?
catholicinsight.com/online/church/humanae/1968wpeg.shtml

Then we have the controversial outcome of (“Roe verses Wade”) in the United States in 1973. No doubt what happened in Canada in 1968 had a bearing on the U.S. and the additional travesty with the legalization of Abortion in Canada by the Supreme Courts that same year.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roe_v._Wade

Is the Catholic Church too strict? Absolutely Not!
Morality today especially when speaking about Gods Laws are shipwrecked by secular humanism and moral relativism. Gods Laws have been replaced by Mans Laws.

Artificial Birth Control only further adds to the abomination of Abortion

 

[Blacksword]

NFP is something I continue to have philosophical problems with as being acceptable. In the end, the couples whom practice it absolutely have a contraceptive mentality, and we all know it I think. They clearly are hoping to avoid pregnancy, just as are those who use ABC. I’ve read the explanations for why it’s moral and other methods aren’t, I’ve also read that those who practice NFP with the contraceptive mentality are sinning for so doing, and neither the explanations for its morality or the explanations for why it is intrinsically different from other methods really hold water. This is the singular area with which I can conclude this about the Church’s teachings. I still think alot of this has to do with the idea of homunculi and the sperm being little people, so any averting method to avoid pregnancy was like murder.

I continue to pray about this, but I think that there is a good reason that Humanae Vitae has not been officially declared infallible dogma…all I can say is in the end, couples practicing NFP have a contraceptive method in nearly every case, or they wouldn’t be going to such extremes to ascertain when it was least likely to conceive, and therefore most likely to be “safe” to have sex.

 

[joclucsylv]

Hi Lemon and Lime,

Jesus never specifically taught the Trinity either. He speaks through His Church.

God Bless,
Joan

The Church fathers spoke of the Trinity. That is how we know it is true. I wonder what the Church Fathers would think about NFP. It’s prevention of life so I don’t think that would make them happy.

 

[St_Francis]

The thing about NFP is that the couple is not trying to frustate the end of the marital act, they are simply not engaging in that act. While I believe that NFP can be used with an abc mindset. I also think that people can use in perfectly morlly.

 

[Robert_Sock]

While there are over 20% who feel that ABC is too strict, none of them seem to be voicing that concern here in the posts.

Personally, I’m undecided and have yet to vote.

 

[valentino]

No.I believe that the Apostles and first Christians would have agreed that contraception was wrong and to my knowledge the Catholic Church has always held to this principle.No matter how this world changes or how many new scientific,medical discoveries are made this basic moral belief should and must be upheld.

 

[valentino]

The Church fathers spoke of the Trinity. That is how we know it is true. I wonder what the Church Fathers would think about NFP. It’s prevention of life so I don’t think that would make them happy.

Ive read former posts of you’res and they are very good in my estimation.

 

[valentino]

Questions like these have me asking how people including many Catholics can’t see that global morality today is completely shipwrecked.

But hey; go figure with the complete sickening shame of clergy members in Canada in 1968 with no backbone completely ignoring Pope Paul’s encyclical Humane Vitae in the Winnipeg Statement that made waves of negative repercussions around the world.
catholicinsight.com/online/church/humanae/article_960.shtml

Then we have the Homosexual agenda which also came from disregard and contempt of moral religious law ("Ten Commandments}, with the help of the Winnipeg Statement

1968 Winnipeg Statement to blame for “gay” agenda?
catholicinsight.com/online/church/humanae/1968wpeg.shtml

Then we have the controversial outcome of (“Roe verses Wade”) in the United States in 1973. No doubt what happened in Canada in 1968 had a bearing on the U.S. and the additional travesty with the legalization of Abortion in Canada by the Supreme Courts that same year.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roe_v._Wade

Is the Catholic Church too strict? Absolutely Not!
Morality today especially when speaking about Gods Laws are shipwrecked by secular humanism and moral relativism. Gods Laws have been replaced by Mans Laws.

Artificial Birth Control only further adds to the abomination of Abortion

I read the first link.What do you find offensive?The 2nd just that the bishop agreed with the pope and would cause dissention if it were spoken against.Fr.Gale spoke up when he shouldn’t have but he is just 1 priest.I don’t see where it implies that most priests feel as he does.The last doesn’t even mention a priest or bishop.Why do you find the Canadian Catholic clergy at fault?

 

[joclucsylv]

NFP is something I continue to have philosophical problems with as being acceptable. In the end, the couples whom practice it absolutely have a contraceptive mentality, and we all know it I think. They clearly are hoping to avoid pregnancy, just as are those who use ABC. I’ve read the explanations for why it’s moral and other methods aren’t, I’ve also read that those who practice NFP with the contraceptive mentality are sinning for so doing, and neither the explanations for its morality or the explanations for why it is intrinsically different from other methods really hold water. This is the singular area with which I can conclude this about the Church’s teachings. I still think alot of this has to do with the idea of homunculi and the sperm being little people, so any averting method to avoid pregnancy was like murder.

I continue to pray about this, but I think that there is a good reason that Humanae Vitae has not been officially declared infallible dogma…all I can say is in the end, couples practicing NFP have a contraceptive method in nearly every case, or they wouldn’t be going to such extremes to ascertain when it was least likely to conceive, and therefore most likely to be “safe” to have sex.

Well said!!

 

[TrueLight]

I second that.

 

[PJM]

=Robert Sock;8067663]Is the Catholic Church too strict in its teaching on artificial birth control?

Hi Robert,

You ask a fair question; However we must keep in mind that what the church teaches originates from an understanding of what GOD Himself WILLS. The answeris NO.

The Catechism nails it, in givng two possibilities for sex from GDS perspective: 1… Procreation and 2. Unitive benefit that is so essential to married life. THINK about it: a man and a women living TOGEATHER for LIFE! Impossible were it not for God’s grave and the unity that comes from a healthy sex life in marriage.

Looking at the evidence below, it seems that our ForeFathers had a BETTER understanding og God’s Role than a reat many of us seem to have.

**Gen.1: 28 **And God blessed them, and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the air and over every living thing that moves upon the earth."

**Gen.9: 1 **And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth. .”

**Gen.17: 6 **I will make you exceedingly fruitful; and I will make nations of you, and kings shall come forth from you. 20 As for Ish’mael, I have heard you; behold, I will bless him and make him fruitful and multiply him exceedingly; he shall be the father of twelve princes, and I will make him a great nation.

**Gen.26: 22 **And he moved from there and dug another well, and over that they did not quarrel; so he called its name Reho’both, saying, “For now the LORD has made room for us, and we shall be fruitful in the land.”

**Gen.28: 3 **God Almighty bless you and make you fruitful and multiply you, that you may become a company of peoples.

Gen.35:11 And God said to him, "I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall come from you, and kings shall spring from you.

Gen.41: 52 The name of the second he called E’phraim, “For God has made me fruitful in the land of my affliction.”

**Gen.47: 27 **Thus Israel dwelt in the land of Egypt, in the land of Goshen; and they gained possessions in it, and were fruitful and multiplied exceedingly.

Gen.48: 4 and said to me, `Behold, I will make you fruitful, and multiply you, and I will make of you a company of peoples, and will give this land to your descendants after you for an everlasting possession.’

Exod.1: 7 But the descendants of Israel were fruitful and increased greatly; they multiplied and grew exceedingly strong; so that the land was filled with them.

Lev.26: 9 And I will have regard for you and make you fruitful and multiply you, and will confirm my covenant with you.

**Ps.105: 24 **“And the LORD made his people very fruitful, and made them stronger than their foes”.

**Ps.128: 3 "**Your wife will be like a fruitful vine within your house; your children will be like olive shoots around your table.

**Jer.23: 3 **Then I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all the countries where I have driven them, and I will bring them back to their fold, and they shall be fruitful and multiply.

God Bless,
Pat

 

[TrueLight]

It might be true that He never addressed these issues in the Gospels, but right off the start, in the Book of Genesis, He tells us to be fruitful and multiply.

Is this the crux of it?

I never understood why anyone, Catholic or Protestant would use that verse as a reason to have tons of children.

Of course God told Adam and Even to be fruitful and multiply. They were the first humans and they needed to propagate the species.

How does that necessarily apply to now?

Please note I am faithful to what the Magesterium says about ABC, but I just don’t understand how that verse can be used as justification.

 

[St_Francis]

NFP is something I continue to have philosophical problems with as being acceptable. In the end, the couples whom practice it absolutely have a contraceptive mentality, and we all know it I think. They clearly are hoping to avoid pregnancy, just as are those who use ABC. I’ve read the explanations for why it’s moral and other methods aren’t, I’ve also read that those who practice NFP with the contraceptive mentality are sinning for so doing, and neither the explanations for its morality or the explanations for why it is intrinsically different from other methods really hold water. This is the singular area with which I can conclude this about the Church’s teachings. I still think alot of this has to do with the idea of homunculi and the sperm being little people, so any averting method to avoid pregnancy was like murder.

I continue to pray about this, but I think that there is a good reason that Humanae Vitae has not been officially declared infallible dogma…all I can say is in the end, couples practicing NFP have a contraceptive method in nearly every case, or they wouldn’t be going to such extremes to ascertain when it was least likely to conceive, and therefore most likely to be “safe” to have sex.

I see what you are saying, but to me, NFP is all right 1. because it does not involve frustrating the end of the act, it involves not engaging in the act at all, and 2. because of the very difficulty involved, it will be mostly used for grave reasons.

I am not denying that some might use it with a contraceptive mentality, let’s get a boat instead of having a baby. However, abstaining in a marital situation is hard, and so I think it tends to balance out: a couple will ask if the boat is worth the denial they are practicing.

OTOH, there are situations in which there does exist a grave reason for avoiding pregnancy. I knew a couple who had had over 10 children, and with the last child some serious consequences appeared for the mother and she was in and out of the hospital for several months after the birth of the baby. The doctors agreed that a repetition was more likely if she had another child.

If we say that abstaining at certain times is in and of itself indicative of a contraceptive mentality, then complete abstention would be also. That would leave no recourse for couples such as the one above, who do have a grave reason to avoid pregnancy.

 

[centurionguard]

I read the first link.What do you find offensive?The 2nd just that the bishop agreed with the pope and would cause dissention if it were spoken against.Fr.Gale spoke up when he shouldn’t have but he is just 1 priest.I don’t see where it implies that most priests feel as he does.The last doesn’t even mention a priest or bishop.Why do you find the Canadian Catholic clergy at fault?

Fr. Corapi and Corruption in the Church
youtube.com/watch?v=cLZyN8x8gNE&feature=player_embedded

 

[valentino]

Fr. Corapi and Corruption in the Church
youtube.com/watch?v=cLZyN8x8gNE&feature=player_embedded

Thanks.very good video.BTW wasn’t denying that Canada’s bishops weren’t wrong I was just saying that the article didn’t show any proof of that.

 

[edwest2]

I was born in the mid 1950s. The average number of kids in my neighborhood was two. There was no birth control pill.

I think Catholic teaching on ABC is correct and Natural Family Planning can be done.

Peace,
Ed

 

[jsaldar]

Does the bible say anything about contraception?

 

[kozlosap]

Does anyone care to remember what the Papal Commission on ABC recommended in the 1960’s? I think some of you might be surprised! Yes Ed, the average # of kids in the 50’s was 2 - quite obviously our parents were using NFP (rhythm method) as contraception, once again, not a surprise.

 

[mathematoons]

NFP is something I continue to have philosophical problems with as being acceptable. In the end, the couples whom practice it absolutely have a contraceptive mentality, and we all know it I think. They clearly are hoping to avoid pregnancy, just as are those who use ABC. I’ve read the explanations for why it’s moral and other methods aren’t, I’ve also read that those who practice NFP with the contraceptive mentality are sinning for so doing, and neither the explanations for its morality or the explanations for why it is intrinsically different from other methods really hold water… all I can say is in the end, couples practicing NFP have a contraceptive method in nearly every case, or they wouldn’t be going to such extremes to ascertain when it was least likely to conceive, and therefore most likely to be “safe” to have sex.

I have to agree. I submit to Church teaching because the Church accepts NFP, and to dislike it is to disagree with God. But there is definitely a contraceptive mentality behind it. If people use NFP because pregnancy is dangerous or something like that, I’m OK with it… but mostly, it’s just an attempt at finding a loophole in the rules against ABC. Do they really think they can fool God?

It used to be Catholics who had the big families; now our families are average-sized. When Muslims and Mormons, who don’t have the fullness of Truth like we do, have more kids even though they don’t have rules against ABC, something is wrong.

Of course, we can’t say it’s ABC’s fault. I heard someone say that blaming guns for Columbine is like blaming spoons for Rosie O’Donnell being fat. Well, I think blaming ABC for small families is the same. It’s the contraceptive mentality that needs to change.

Google “population implosion” to see what happens when the contraceptive mentality goes too far.

 

[PJM]

=TrueLight;8070926]Is this the crux of it?

I never understood why anyone, Catholic or Protestant would use that verse as a reason to have tons of children.

Of course God told Adam and Even to be fruitful and multiply. They were the first humans and they needed to propagate the species.

How does that necessarily apply to now?

Please note I am faithful to what the Magesterium says about ABC, but I just don’t understand how that verse can be used as justification.

Here is A REASON:

France has a reproduction rate that is lower than there death rate. What does that fortell:thumbsup:

Heres another REASON:

Large familes tend to be MORE generous and chaitatble

**Gen.1: 28 **And God blessed them, and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the air and over every living thing that moves upon the earth."

**Gen.9: 1 **And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth. .”

**Gen.17: 6 **I will make you exceedingly fruitful; and I will make nations of you, and kings shall come forth from you. 20 As for Ish’mael, I have heard you; behold, I will bless him and make him fruitful and multiply him exceedingly; he shall be the father of twelve princes, and I will make him a great nation.

**Gen.26: 22 **And he moved from there and dug another well, and over that they did not quarrel; so he called its name Reho’both, saying, “For now the LORD has made room for us, and we shall be fruitful in the land.”

**Gen.28: 3 **God Almighty bless you and make you fruitful and multiply you, that you may become a company of peoples.

Gen.35:11 And God said to him, "I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall come from you, and kings shall spring from you.

Gen.41: 52 The name of the second he called E’phraim, “For God has made me fruitful in the land of my affliction.”

**Gen.47: 27 **Thus Israel dwelt in the land of Egypt, in the land of Goshen; and they gained possessions in it, and were fruitful and multiplied exceedingly.

Gen.48: 4 and said to me, `Behold, I will make you fruitful, and multiply you, and I will make of you a company of peoples, and will give this land to your descendants after you for an everlasting possession.’

Exod.1: 7 But the descendants of Israel were fruitful and increased greatly; they multiplied and grew exceedingly strong; so that the land was filled with them.

Lev.26: 9 And I will have regard for you and make you fruitful and multiply you, and will confirm my covenant with you.

**Ps.105: 24 **“And the LORD made his people very fruitful, and made them stronger than their foes”.

**Ps.128: 3 "**Your wife will be like a fruitful vine within your house; your children will be like olive shoots around your table.

Jer.23: 3 Then I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all the countries where I have driven them, and I will bring them back to their fold, and they shall be fruitful and multiply.

It is God’s WILL

Pat