Is the CCC infallible?

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Hi! I was just wondering if the CCC is infallible. I’ve heard that it’s based on encyclicals, but I’ve also heard that it’s not guaranteed to be infallible; in fact, I’ve heard some arguments against certain parts of the CCC. Any thoughts on this would be welcome. Thanks in advance!
 
Hi! I was just wondering if the CCC is infallible. I’ve heard that it’s based on encyclicals, but I’ve also heard that it’s not guaranteed to be infallible; in fact, I’ve heard some arguments against certain parts of the CCC. Any thoughts on this would be welcome. Thanks in advance!
It’s not infallible itself, but it’s supposed to be a compilation of things which ARE infallible… just like when you’re telling someone what Scripture says,.
 
No. Much of what is in it is referenced to infallible documents. So of the CCC is just disciplinary teaching.
 
Some is also based on Vatican 2, which was pastoral, not dogmatic.
 
Anything in the CCC that comes from scripture, morals or dogma is infallible. Anything that is law, discipline, commentary, or pastoral can change. It is not infallible.

Hope this simple list helps a little.

Fraternally,

JR 🙂
 
When you say “law,” do you mean government law or canon law?
 
Hi! I was just wondering if the CCC is infallible. I’ve heard that it’s based on encyclicals, but I’ve also heard that it’s not guaranteed to be infallible; in fact, I’ve heard some arguments against certain parts of the CCC. Any thoughts on this would be welcome. Thanks in advance!
I am assuming you are talking about the Catholic Charasmatic Renewal.

I don’t think an organization can be infallible because there is room for interpretation withing various groups that can be fallible of infallible things. Hopefully that makes sense.

The CCC overall is a good thing but there are people and groups out there who take it to far. It is up to us, if we decide to get involved, to do our best to discern that the group we involve ourselves with is good.
 
When you say “law,” do you mean government law or canon law?
Church law: includes Canon Law, Liturgical Law, Religious Rules, Religious Constitutions, Other legal documents of the Church.

Civil law is never infallible.

Church law can speak about that which is infallible, because it is based on an infallible teaching. For example: for the mass to be valid the priest must have the intention to consecrate, have bread and wine, and use the words of consecratoin as they are approved by the Church.

The law is not infallible, but it is based on scripture and scripture is infallible. Therefore . . . you can figure out the rest.

I’ll give you another exmaple of Canon Law: only single or widowed men can be ordained to the priesthood.

This is not an infallible law nor does it speak about an infallible teaching. Celibacy is mentioned in scripture, but not required. The Church created the law for some priests; therefore, she can also change the law.

Hope this answers your question.

JR 🙂

Another law
 
So that would explain why the “law” regarding Religious Freedom changed over time in Church teaching, right?
 
So that would explain why the “law” regarding Religious Freedom changed over time in Church teaching, right?
Yes. This law is not a dogma. This law falls under the area of justice. The Church adapts it to the needs of the time and place.

For example, the Holy Father praised the secular government and religious freedom guarranteed by the Constitution of the United States. This would not have ocurred to popes 150 years ago or more. But given the fact that in many countries of the world, people are persecuted for their faith, the Church has taken a step back and reworked the teaching.

The Church cannot protect Catholicism at the expense of human life. Nor can it approve forced conversions, because they are not valid. Conversions have to be free. If people’s lives are threatened unless they become Catholic, this is a grave sin against justice and the conversions would not be reliable.

Therefore, the Church prefers to promote governments that respect religion enough to allow it to exist without intervention from the State. This leaves Catholics free to practice our faith without threats. It allows those who want to convert to do so, withouth threats and with their full conscience, not a faked conversion.

Hope this helps.

JR 🙂
 
It does help. I actually disagree with the concept of religious freedom. In my view, it runs counter to Tradition, Scripture and reason. I could wrangle with you on the matter, but more important is you’ve helped me to understand how the variability in the Church’s stance on the matter does not discredit the Church as a witness to the truth. I didn’t understand very well the difference between “law” and “doctrine,” which you’ve just pointed out. That is what I was most after. So you’ve helped me a lot by explaining that.
 
It does help. I actually disagree with the concept of religious freedom. In my view, it runs counter to Tradition, Scripture and reason. I could wrangle with you on the matter, but more important is you’ve helped me to understand how the variability in the Church’s stance on the matter does not discredit the Church as a witness to the truth. I didn’t understand very well the difference between “law” and “doctrine,” which you’ve just pointed out. That is what I was most after. So you’ve helped me a lot by explaining that.
It’s an important distinction, one which I’m still trying to figure out better (even as a cradle Catholic). Areas of law, you can respectfully disagree (in the sense of obeying, but acknowledging that you don’t think the law should be how it is… just as one would respectfully disagree from civic law), while doctrines, you can’t, b/c that’s from a source higher than the Church. So you can push for allowing married priests (law prohibits is presently in the Latin-rite), but not that you think there should be priestesses (as JPII acknowledged, no pope has the power to change that: it’s doctrine).
 
Even in law, there is an important distinction that must be made. There is law that is discipline that is not based on dogma. Yet, there is a BUT.

There is a point in canon law that was built in to safeguard the papacy. It says that you cannot appeal a law that the Pope makes. Just to be silly, let us say that the Pope himself makes a law that says every Catholic must wear a red bandana to mass on Sunday and he promulgates it under pain of sin. There is no appeal. You either wear the red bandana or you’re in a state of sin.

There are such laws in the Church. Most of them apply to the relationship between religious and laity. Therefore, most of us are unfamiliar with them, because lay people usually skip the section in Canon Law that speaks about religious and secular institutes. And most lay people are commpletely unfamiliar with the Rules of Life in Religion and Constitutions that govern religious and secular institutes.

For example: Augustinians, Benedictines, Carmelites, Franciscans, and Basilians in the East have a Rule of Life. These rules were written by the founder or the organizer of the order. The Popes placed Bulls on these Holy Rules so that no one can change them, not even the religious in those orders. Only the Pope can change them. The only thing that the members of these communities can do is to study every chapter of the rule and find ways of complying with it in their particular circumstances. Even when they write these down, they are called Constitutions and they have to be approved by the Holy See.

Neither the laity, the clergy or the bishops may overrule these laws once they are approved by a Pope. When these religious enter a diocese it is with the understanding that they are what they are. The laity and the bishops must accept them as they are and as they live or not at all. But they cannot demand that they accommodate to the needs of the diocese or of the laity. The primary obligation of these men and women is to follow the rule of their community under pain of mortal sin or excommunication. These are called communities of Pontifical Right. The only person who has the right to exercise authority over them is the Pontif.

These laws were made by Popes and are binding under pain of mortal sin, until such time as a Pope comes along and changes them.

The same applies for marriage. The requirements for marriage are approved by the Holy Father. They are not from scripture nor are they revealed dogmas. But they are binding under pain of mortal sin and excommunication. You must comply with certain requirements or your marriage is invalid. Those requirements remain in place until the next time the laws are changed. If you do not comply with those requirements, you cannot get married.

The law of the Friday abstinence was one of them. This law only applied to certain countries. In those countries where it applied, it applied under mortal sin. In other countries it never existed. Then Pope Paul VI eliminated the law and made Fridays a day of penance, but took away the pain of sin.

So you see, there are laws that you can disagree with, but if you do not comply, you are in serious moral trouble.

Going back to religious. Any lay person, priest or bishop who attempts to interfere in the internal affairs of a religious community of Pontifical Right can be punished by the Church. This happened when many religious communities of women received permission from the Holy See to dress in secular clothing and lay people and bishops tried to protest. The Holy See would not hear them out. These communities enjoyed the protection of the papacy and their constitutions were approved by the Holy See. Then came John Paul II and asked all new religious communities of sisters to wear some kind of habit or distinctive garb. He put some parameters in, that Paul VI had removed as an experiment. Catholics must accept both judgments as correct.

Paul VI wanted to experiment with a return to the roots of religious life. John Paul II waited several years and realized that the experiment did not produce the desired results and wrote new parameters. This is the perrogotive of each Pope. In neither case can anyone appeal.

Like these, there are many points in Canon Law and outside of Canon Law that are the perrogative of the Pope, a bishop or a major religious superior and they are not up for discussion. One can disagree, but one cannot ignore them. One can only disagree until one is told to “shut up.”

For example, in my community the rule says very clearly that we obey with blind love anything that is not a sin, whether it comes from the Pope, a Major Superior or a local superior. We obey the bishop in those areas where he has the right to intervene. To obey with blind love, means that we obey and we do it with love, not grudgingly. If you do it grudgingly, you are lacking in internal discipline. Your mind and soul must always be ready to obey with love and joy. You should have that under control by the time you finish your period of formation.

Are these things infallible? Usually not, unless they come directly from scripture, morals or revealed dogma. If they are disciplinary practices, they are not infallible, but they carry ordinary authority and must be obeyed under pain of sin. No one can disobey a pope, a bishop or a major religious superior when he or she exercises their legitimate authority within their jurisdiction. It is rare that they will give orders binding under sin, but they can do so.

This is an interesting topic. Not all of these are covered in the Catehcism of the Catholic Church, because it’s too much information. We would need a library to keep it all. LOL

Fraternally,

JR 🙂
 
Thank you all for your responses so far!
I am assuming you are talking about the Catholic Charasmatic Renewal.
Hi Coreopisis, sorry if I wasn’t clear. I don’t know if they’re related, but I was referring to the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
 
Hi Coreopisis, sorry if I wasn’t clear. I don’t know if they’re related, but I was referring to the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
You were clear. Besides, “Catholic Charismatic Renewal” would be CCR, not to be confused with Credence Clearwater Revival, altought the music is aout the same.
 
Hi! I was just wondering if the CCC is infallible. I’ve heard that it’s based on encyclicals, but I’ve also heard that it’s not guaranteed to be infallible; in fact, I’ve heard some arguments against certain parts of the CCC. Any thoughts on this would be welcome. Thanks in advance!
It is not in itself infallible but it contains a summary of all the teachings of the Church, including those which are infallible.
It contains all the doctrines and disciplines of the Church and everything in the CCC must be accepted and obeyed by all Catholics. Remember we are not just obliged to accept and obey infallible teachings. It applies to all teachings.
 
It is not in itself infallible but it contains a summary of all the teachings of the Church, including those which are infallible.
It contains all the doctrines and disciplines of the Church and everything in the CCC must be accepted and obeyed by all Catholics. Remember we are not just obliged to accept and obey infallible teachings. It applies to all teachings.
You are very right. John Paul II wrote something on that score. I can’t remember where it was. He wrote so many things. If anyone remembers where he said this and can post it, it would help.

Fraternally,

JR 🙂
 
You are very right. John Paul II wrote something on that score. I can’t remember where it was. He wrote so many things. If anyone remembers where he said this and can post it, it would help.

Fraternally,

JR 🙂
Where do you study so much?
 
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