Is the Christian God self-contradictory?

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No, the Christian God is not self-contradictory. You must consult with your Priest for a proper interpretation of the Bible. It will be a most enlightening experience.

Remember, a paradox has a solution, a contradiction does not.

The Bible is multi-faceted in its message, and like any sophisticated piece of literature the Bible is filled with hidden metaphors, inuendo, and subtle analogies. And since the Bible is the inspired word of God himself, the messages are all the more sophisticated - so sit down with your Catholic Priest and have him interpret the paradoxes, because the Christian God is not contradictory.
 
Bobby A. Greene:
No, the Christian God is not self-contradictory.
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I challenge those who say this to actually fut forth a comprehensive definition of “God”

Only then can we establish if this is a square-circle.
Bobby A. Greene:
Remember, a paradox has a solution, a contradiction does not.
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How did you establish that?
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Ghosty:
Atheists really need to read the Summa Theologica before they start making statements about how “illogical” the Christian concept of God is.

I know, I used to be the hardest atheist around.

And what If I used to be the hardest Christian around? (In fact, i was.)

As an atheist, I hear this a lot. Frankly, it isn’t compelling.

Usually I end up thinking that the person didn’t understand the atheist position to begin with, or that they lacked a certain stoicism and emotional stability to face a harsh reality.

If a theist tells the atheist that he used to be an atheist, and the atheist tells the theist he used to be a theist, they cancel out each others’ testimony. (Not that such testimonies matter in the first place)
 
I challenge those who say this to actually fut forth a comprehensive definition of “God”
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Summa Theologica is an excellent start. It’s just a start, though.
And what If I used to be the hardest Christian around? (In fact, i was.)
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And did you read the Summa Theologica? If not than my statement still stands: you need to read it before you call the Christian conception of God illogical. If you haven’t read it, it’s no suprise you came to the conclusions you have.

In a similar vein, were you Catholic?

The Summa Theologica Online
 
Maybe so, but why tell me this? Not all non-Christians are atheists! Had you looked at my profile you would have seen that I am Buddhist.
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May statement wasn’t really directed at you, but a general one.

What branch of Buddhism do you follow? Part of my family is Thai, and I was raised with Japanese people. Do you follow Therevada? Mahayana? One of the other, smaller variations?
 
God is both merciful and just.
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If you said to my child that it is contradictory to just and merciful all at the same time then I would have perfect fits with you… 😃

In order to be merciful to us he must also be just, nothing exists without balance or order… logic was also created by God and that is not contradictory is it? So therefore, one would say it is perfect in it’s balance.

Is it merciful to get away with things that can harm us?

Is it merciful then if God allows us to get away with things on a continual basis showing us mercy but not also protecting us from ourselves and being just as well, or is it the exact opposite, that He is merciful when need be but when need be He is just so that we know how to correct the problem? Isn’t this much more logical and infinitely more merciful in the end?
 
It seems like there are a few instances in the Old Testament where contradictions occur between Jehovah and God the Father of Christ in the New Testament. Some of the OT stories portray God as a jealous tyrant…exhibiting behavior that could only really come from a fallen human. In the book of Job, God is somehow deceived by Satan regarding Job’s deeds. I believe that God has always been an omnipresent, perfect being of love, but man’s interpretation of him was a bit underdeveloped in the times of the Old Testament. God’s nature can’t change, so it must be that man’s understanding of Him has evolved. Thanks to Jesus of course…
-Kevin
 
1 God is immortal
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2 Jesus is God
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3 Jesus died on the cross
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God is immortal and how do we know that he is? Is it not that we have come to learn about God through the Bible and so therefore what else does it say about Jesus …

That he was Fully God and Fully Man … So therfore the only thing that was created at the time of Jesus’ Birth was what… His being Fully Man …

Can a man die? Yes …

Can God Die? No, but He was fully both …So therfore the man died but the God did not
 
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kevb:
It seems like there are a few instances in the Old Testament where contradictions occur between Jehovah and God the Father of Christ in the New Testament. Some of the OT stories portray God as a jealous tyrant…exhibiting behavior that could only really come from a fallen human. In the book of Job, God is somehow deceived by Satan regarding Job’s deeds. I believe that God has always been an omnipresent, perfect being of love, but man’s interpretation of him was a bit underdeveloped in the times of the Old Testament. God’s nature can’t change, so it must be that man’s understanding of Him has evolved. Thanks to Jesus of course…
-Kevin
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Where is this?
 
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MysticRose:
Where is this?
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Actually…I worded that really wrong… What I meant was that God seems to be relying on Satan to report Job’s behavior, which would be a contradiction to his omnipresence. I could be interpreting that completely wrong.

In fact, now that I think about it… I probably am wrong and have no business posting ideas that aren’t in line with Church teaching…I’m sure it’s the devil that prompts us to look for contradictions. The men who wrote the Bible knew what they were talking about much more than I ever will, so I shouldn’t give in to the temptation to question their work. I take it all back and submit to whatever the Church believes. These forums can be more dangerous for me than I thought.
 
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kevb:
Actually…I worded that really wrong… What I meant was that God seems to be relying on Satan to report Job’s behavior, which would be a contradiction to his omnipresence. I could be interpreting that completely wrong.

In fact, now that I think about it… I probably am wrong and have no business posting ideas that aren’t in line with Church teaching…I’m sure it’s the devil that prompts us to look for contradictions. The men who wrote the Bible knew what they were talking about much more than I ever will, so I shouldn’t give in to the temptation to question their work. I take it all back and submit to whatever the Church believes. These forums can be more dangerous for me than I thought.
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They can help you too…

I want you to remember something, if Satan had lied to God then would not God have known that? Can Satan really mislead God? Remember that God also Knows all too… So therefore, He would also know if Satan lied. So whether Satan told him or not He in actuality already knew and the fact that Satan was telling God of Job’s behaviour may be for us to learn yet another lesson altogether…
 
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MysticRose:
They can help you too…

I want you to remember something, if Satan had lied to God then would not God have known that? Can Satan really mislead God? Remember that God also Knows all too… So therefore, He would also know if Satan lied. So whether Satan told him or not He in actuality already knew and the fact that Satan was telling God of Job’s behaviour may be for us to learn yet another lesson altogether…
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Well put…
Whatever the details…it’s the message that enters your heart that comes from the Holy Spirit. When I read scripture with my mind, I fall into error, but when I read it with my heart it all makes perfect sense. Thanks…
😃
 
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kevb:
Well put…
Whatever the details…it’s the message that enters your heart that comes from the Holy Spirit. When I read scripture with my mind, I fall into error, but when I read it with my heart it all makes perfect sense. Thanks…
😃
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No problem glad to help … and keep up with thinking remember we are a thinking Church and people too …

Also remember just because the Lord and the Church require our ASsention it does not mean they mean for us to remain ignorant … Far from it … We must though remember that the Church is our Deposit of Faith and therefore where we turn for all direction in matters
 
How did you establish that?

How did I establish that a paradox has a solution yet a contradiction has no solution? Try taking PHIL 101 and an upper level course in Logic, and that is how I established it: the difference between a paradox and a contradiction is standard teaching in any college level logic course, don’t you know?
 
As an atheist, I hear this a lot. Frankly, it isn’t compelling.
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What isn’t compelling? Please consult the various arguments for the existence of God. If nothing else, these arguments establish that there is something out there which is incorporeal, intelligent, and infinite which we have been shown (thru the Bible) to be the presence of GOD! The atheist has no argument to refute the existence of a supreme being.
 
Bobby A. Greene:
How did I establish that a paradox has a solution yet a contradiction has no solution? Try taking PHIL 101 and an upper level course in Logic, and that is how I established it: the difference between a paradox and a contradiction is standard teaching in any college level logic course, don’t you know?
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I should have been more clear. How did you establish that the Christian God has resolvable paradoxes and not unresolvable ones? nota bene: simply calling something a “paradox” doesn’t guarantee that there will be a solution. How long must a paradox remain paradoxical before you finally declare it contradictory?
Bobby A. Greene:
As an atheist, I hear this a lot. Frankly, it isn’t compelling.
What isn’t compelling? Please consult the various arguments for the existence of God. If nothing else, these arguments establish that there is something out there which is incorporeal, intelligent, and infinite which we have been shown (thru the Bible) to be the presence of GOD! The atheist has no argument to refute the existence of a supreme being.
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You certainly did not read my post then. It isn’t compelling when people tell me that they used to be atheists.

…

And someone else asked me if i had read all of Summa Theologica.

not in its entirety. I have read a good portion, including the part about the five ways, and ontological argumentation. Please, if you have something in mind, tell me where to find it, otherwise, telling me to read the whole thing before i can say whether God is contradictory could take a while. I’m not going to tell you you have to have read Flew, Hume or jjc Smart before i will speak to you.

Just give me a definition. that’s all i asked for, jeez.
 
heck yes. i’m amazed there are others who voted for square cirles
 
Ok, so you’ve read the Summa, which presents an argument for how God is non-contradictory. Now counter it. Notice I never said to read all of it. Since we’ve both read it, there’s no need to go about posting all of Thomas Aquinas’ arguments here. I’m just interested in hearing you refute him, particularily on the existance of God.

These aren’t arguments that can be set up as sound-bytes and casually knocked down, so don’t expect people to just throw out definitions at you. The Summa is a good start, and is easily accessible, and is set up in a format that is designed for argumentation. Knock yourself out, and we can work from there.
 
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Ghosty:
Ok, so you’ve read the Summa, which presents an argument for how God is non-contradictory. Now counter it. Notice I never said to read all of it. Since we’ve both read it, there’s no need to go about posting all of Thomas Aquinas’ arguments here. I’m just interested in hearing you refute him, particularily on the existance of God.

These aren’t arguments that can be set up as sound-bytes and casually knocked down, so don’t expect people to just throw out definitions at you. The Summa is a good start, and is easily accessible, and is set up in a format that is designed for argumentation. Knock yourself out, and we can work from there.
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If you link me some place where i can read this part you’re speaking of then i would.

Is it in the section of five ways? i remember there is a section titled “whether god is self-evident” but i don’t remeber a part specifcally on whether god is self-contradictory.

so link it.
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Ghosty:
Now counter it.
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i’ll see what i can do, but calm down a bit.
 
Ok, then, how about you name an aspect of that you think is self-contradictory, and I’ll check the Summa and see if that particular issue is addressed. That might work better, but you can also do a search of the Summa yourself via the link I posted. Things in it are arranged by topic, and pretty easy to navigate. If it’s not addressed, I’ll do my best to present the answer for you myself.

Don’t misunderstand my “now counter it”. I wasn’t upset, I was just terse for the purpose of getting to the point 🙂 No need to infer anger in a purely textual environment just by the length of a sentance. 😃
 
i’m browsing that site now.

There are quite a few, and i’m sure others will have their favorites. however, I have always thought these four attributes, when applied to the same deity, are contradictory.

–omniscient
–creator of all
–benevolent
–wrathful

any three are compatible, but all four do not work. or at least, a god with all four would not be worthy of worship. and having only three of these, god would be incomplete by christian standards, and also not worthy of worship.

of course, i have argued this many times, and it is quite annoying because usually the dialogue is the same every time. so i’m not sure why i even bother. here is another thread where i argued this point

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=50614&page=2&highlight=calvinism
 
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