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Scottgun
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Unless one really thinks there is an actual God in the tree worthy of worship, there is no danger of idolatry. No one accidently worships a false god.
Scott
Scott
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Teakafrog
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I once had a tree so evil I was still picking needles out of the carpet in July…
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Julianna
Guest
I am so glad someone posted this. My daughter’s boyfriend is adamant against Christmas trees. He said they are idol worship, and quotes the same Jerimiah passage. I told him it was “carved by an axe”, he said it was a tree adorned with gold and silver…his two year old daughter (not my daughters child) will not know a Christmas tree growing up, that is so sad. She will see one at my house though. She is running around here right now playing…“nonna, nonna, come color with me.” How can I refuse.
I wonder how I am going to explain the tree, and Santa Claus…she goes to daycare, and I know there are going to have a Santa there. Her dad doesn’t want her to know (believe in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny) he says they are “pagan”.
I told my daughter, “think long and hard before you decide to spend anymore time with this guy”.
I would like to print out something for him to read, without him saying…“oh, that’s a Catholic thing”…
any ideas???
I wonder how I am going to explain the tree, and Santa Claus…she goes to daycare, and I know there are going to have a Santa there. Her dad doesn’t want her to know (believe in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny) he says they are “pagan”.
I told my daughter, “think long and hard before you decide to spend anymore time with this guy”.
I would like to print out something for him to read, without him saying…“oh, that’s a Catholic thing”…
any ideas???
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mercygate
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Hank Hannegraaf of the Christian Research Institute, a mildly anti-Catholic Christian Evangelist, has some tract-length material at CRI.com addressing these things in a rational way. You don’t have to use Catholic sources.
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ricko
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The popular myth concerning the pagan origin of Christmas trees exemplifies this puritanical phobia. In reality the Christmas tree tradition is derived from the Paradise tree, which was adorned with apples on December 24 in honor of Adam and Eve, whose transgression is reversed by the coming of Jesus, the Second Adam (Rom. 5:12-19), on the next day. The tree was originally a stage prop used in medieval German plays of mankind’s fall from grace, and in time people began the practice of having trees in their own homes on that day. Our contemporary custom of adorning Christmas trees with balls likely arose from those prop apples. [The Encyclopedia Americana (International Ed.) relates a widely held belief that it was Martin Luther who originated the custom of Christmas trees in Germany: “The sight of an evergreen tree on Christmas Eve, with stars blazing above, is said to have made a great impression on him, and he put up a similar tree, decorated with lighted candles, in his home” (Danbury: Grolier, 1991), 6:667. The first proper “Christmas tree” as such is found at Strasbourg in 1605.].
Catholic Answers
Still, the vestiges of paganism found in Christmas festivities aren’t to be overlooked. Holly, mistletoe, yule logs, singing, cooking special foods, and decorating the home were all once associated with this time of year in the non-Christian world. Once converted, people did not think of banning these things. They continued to sing, eat big meals, and decorate their homes because these customs were viewed as intrinsically compatible with the new faith. It was paganism that Christianity opposed, not the culture of the people being evangelized. This is why, for example, we still exchange rings and throw rice at weddings even though these customs are holdovers from paganism. Indeed, the early Christians would never have used the fish as a symbol of Christ if they’d disdained every token of paganism.
Catholic Answers
Now, in keeping the spirit of some previous posts… Yes, the Christmas tree is indeed evil. The evil spirit that lives in it will cause you to do things beyond your control such as spend hours decorating the fool thing. If that wasn’t enough, then the evil tree sheads its needles all over the place. The final insult is when the evil spirit that dwells within makes you remove all the adornments that you previously put up in the first place. Evil indeed!
Catholic Answers
Still, the vestiges of paganism found in Christmas festivities aren’t to be overlooked. Holly, mistletoe, yule logs, singing, cooking special foods, and decorating the home were all once associated with this time of year in the non-Christian world. Once converted, people did not think of banning these things. They continued to sing, eat big meals, and decorate their homes because these customs were viewed as intrinsically compatible with the new faith. It was paganism that Christianity opposed, not the culture of the people being evangelized. This is why, for example, we still exchange rings and throw rice at weddings even though these customs are holdovers from paganism. Indeed, the early Christians would never have used the fish as a symbol of Christ if they’d disdained every token of paganism.
Catholic Answers
Now, in keeping the spirit of some previous posts… Yes, the Christmas tree is indeed evil. The evil spirit that lives in it will cause you to do things beyond your control such as spend hours decorating the fool thing. If that wasn’t enough, then the evil tree sheads its needles all over the place. The final insult is when the evil spirit that dwells within makes you remove all the adornments that you previously put up in the first place. Evil indeed!
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LilyM
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Gosh, my family pretty much all have plastic Christmas trees. Does this mean we’re not EVEN worshipping wood! :bigyikes: 
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MyPhilomena
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deb1
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I guess it means that you won’t make it into pagan, Christmas tree heaven.Gosh, my family pretty much all have plastic Christmas trees. Does this mean we’re not EVEN worshipping wood! :bigyikes:
Where did the OP go?
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MyPhilomena
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Gottle_of_Geer
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1. Lots of things are cut by axes - including cherry-trees (as per one Washington, George - according to the life of him by Parson Weems). Therefore, G. Washington was an idol-worshipper.
If a man chops down a tree for a picket fence, does that make him an idolater ?Satirical bit beginning…
2. Why should Jeremiah be interested in Christmas-trees ? What the people who think he was bothering with such things overlook, is that he may well have been prophesying against Vulcan Boson-trees. Yes, I know - nobody has ever heard of them. That’s because they exist in a galaxy far far away, of which we will know nothing until we are invaded by Rigellian serpent-people in 35,000 AD; who want to sell Vulcan Boson-trees - which are exactly like those described in Jeremiah 10. So Jeremiah is really talking not about us in 2000 at all, but about the sellers of Vulcan Boson-trees.
IOW, it is a baseless assumption that the prophet was speaking of Christmas trees; he was talking about Boson-trees - as the Fundamentalists of 35,000 AD will point out.
I defy anybody to prove that the passage is not directed against those who sell Boson-trees.
End of satirical bit
Joking apart, to imagine that Jeremiah’s words applied at one moment to his own times, & at another to times 2500 years distant, implies he suffered from something like ADD. This is absurd, because it is unnecessary: he was speaking to his own times, about his own times - those who think he was talking about us in 2000 AD, need to explain why he also prophesies against Babylon. Maybe such people think Babylon is still standing, & is still a power to be reckoned with. Maybe they think Zedekiah is currently king of Judah. Both were true in Jeremiah’s lifetime - at the risk of insulting the intelligence of anyone who reads this, one can safely say that neither has been true for over 2500 years.
IOW - there is no reason to interpret Jeremiah 10 of our times, and every reason to take it to refer to the time of Jeremiah.
3. The mistake made, is that it is assumed that Jeremiah was predicting - this passage is not a prediction; it is a denunciation. Prophecy is seldom if ever foretelling - it is almost always, or always, forth-telling. That it is not predictive, does not in the least mean that it is not fully a word from God.
4. Jeremiah is denouncing the use of cult-images. In Mesopotamia, there was a rite called the “opening of the mouth” - first an image would be made, then it would become a god. The gods remained in Heaven; the god of whose presence the image was a manifestation, was regarded as born in heaven, and the material of the image was, of course earthly; the “opening of the mouth” made the material image into the god it manifested. The image was therefore both a god, and the material medium in which the god was present.
So an image of (say) the god Marduk (the patron god of Babylon) was both Marduk himself, and a material object which would from time to time need repair, and could be damaged, or taken by a invader. Marduk himself was not confined to any single image of him - they manifested him; they received divine worship, including sacrifice; but he was not affected by what happened to them.
So there was a sophisticated theology here - but not one which Jeremiah would be likely to have much time for; it is this that he is ridiculing, as Ezekiel & the prophet called Second Isaiah do a little later. But Christmas trees are not involved at all. The Christmas-tree interpretation is possible only if people don’t know anything of things such as the rite of the “opening of the mouth”.
Some texts for the rite have been edited recently - eisenbrauns.com/ECOM/_1XR17FYZF.HTM
“The introduction begins by discussing the cult statue and the deity. The authors point out that in Mesopotamian thought, the statue was the deity (illustrated, for example, by offerings being made to the deity, but to the statues of kings). The authors point out the close relationship between “mouth opening” and “mouth washing,” with apparently the “mouth washing” done on the first day and the “mouth opening” on the second. “Mouth opening” is never performed on humans or animals, however. “Washing the mouth” apparently purified the cult image from any human contamination; the “mouth opening” then allowed the statue to function as a deity (p. 14)…” ##
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puzzleannie
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omigoodness, just think of all the mesquite fence posts around Texas, eek I am surrounded by idol worshippers.
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Gottle_of_Geer
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jmcrae
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This reminds me of a discussion that took place several years ago at our house around venerable traditions, and how short-lived they are.Gosh, my family pretty much all have plastic Christmas trees. Does this mean we’re not EVEN worshipping wood! :bigyikes:
My grandfather lamented the passing of the days when people went out into the woods and chopped their own Christmas trees.
My father lamented the passing of the days when you went to a tree farm to pick out your perfect Christmas tree, and paid the tree farmer a dollar for letting you on his property to cut a live tree.
My brother lamented the passing of the days when we went to the local gas station to pick out a half-dead Christmas tree, paid the gas station attendant some exhorbitant fee for the privilege of carrying it out to the truck ourselves, and then, as he held up one of the plastic branches of the Christmas tree, he wondered, “If I have a son, I wonder what he will be doing as he laments the passing of the tradition of the men of the family sticking the plastic branches of the tree into the metal trunk, and sliding the center rod to exactly the right height for the house?”
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deb1
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My husband and our children did this when we lived in Nebraska and also Spokane, Washington. Depending on what part of the country you live in you can still go to a tree farm and cut down a tree.
Here in NC, where I grew up, the pine trees do not look like Christmas trees. They are very tall, with the branches starting close to the top of the tree. When I moved to Spokane, Washington, my neighbors thought I was crazy because I kept gushing over the fact that they had actual Christmas trees growing wild!
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runandsew
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Here in the Portland Oregon area, you can either go to a christmas tree farm and cut your own, or get a forest service permit and head up to Mount Hood and cut down a tree. I have friends who make it a day, take the saw, some sleds and innertubes to play in the snow, some hot cocoa, and make it an all day family outing.
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deb1
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I love the Northwest. I hope that when my hubby retires in a couple of years that we can return there.
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runandsew
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Just remember, that it has been raining for a week, and it is suppose to rain for another week, and there is a flood warning issued. BUT THE TREES ARE GREEN ALL YEAR LONG HERE!!!I love the Northwest. I hope that when my hubby retires in a couple of years that we can return there.
But, the summers are GREAT here. Not too hot, and not humid !!!
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tabcom
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**Yes. I considered myself Catholic until I was 32. I am now 43 and have not done Christmas in 5 years. Over the past 11 years since I’ve stopped going to mass, I’ve learned more about the bible then I did during all those 32 years times seven. I no longer am involved in the sin I use to do. I’m married and have a beautiful home. I tithe to help the spiritual widows and spiritual orphans. All of which, came at the sacrifice of not doing Christmas. I now view Christmas as a time for believers, atheist and pagans alike to hold hands and give thanks for being alive for one more year. Nothing more. There is no spiritual truth in the annual ritual of Christmas. Did not Jesus order his followers to take up their crosses and follow him? (Luke 9:23) When I did Christmas, I was laying my cross down and fulfilling the flesh. **
Yes. We were ignorate of the metaphoric symbolism that the christmas tree represents.
**Thank those that provided some humorous posts. However, I’m afraid I did not make myself as clear as I should have in my question in Post #1. That is, metaphorically speaking, doesn’t the Christmas tree of today represent the same values as the tree worship in ancient Israel did that God condemned? **
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Karin
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for some yes…for many others no
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