Is the christmas tree evil?

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Let’s get this straight. You, tab, think that either universally or at least statistically the majority (more than half) of all Christmas trees, in all time, represent covetousness. And you base this on:
  1. Your own personal feelings about Christmas being too comercial.
  2. Your own personal ‘gut’ feelings, and your own emotions when you had a tree, and when you did not.
  3. Your own personal interpretations of select bible passages and the encouragement of the faith group you chose because its emotions and feelings tallied best with your own (obviously it has been proven that if you have difficulties with feelings of one faith group, since you state you were once Catholic ) you leave (since you left Catholicism) over those feelings which you then reinforce with noting your ‘happier’ feelings with those who ‘support you.’
In all of this do you note that the leitmotif, the common bond, is your own feelings?

In the statements you make, the words you chose (charged words like evil, for example), the defensive arguments, everything about your posts is based on feelings, over and above anything else.

Nowhere can you submit any real proof, or give real examples, that the reason that people ‘covet too much’ is tied to idolatrous worship of, and seasonal use of, the Christmas tree.

You asked in your very first post if we did not ‘think’ that the passage in Jeremiah related to Christmas trees.

We said that we do not think so. We have said it over and over and over, and given many proofs as to why we do not think so, proofs that are not based on feelings and emotions but on historical and Biblical knowledge.

Apparently you still think so–but really Tab, we are not going to suddenly change our answers just to ‘suit’ not your conscience, but your personal opinion, an opinion which is not backed up by history or by the Bible itself, an opinion which strongly maligns most Christians today and attempts a coercision about the free practice of our religion as we see fit based upon a minority’s false interpretation of scripture and that minority’s wish to superimpose their feelings onto everyone else.
 
I_Leatherman said:
…the sun is a pagan idol but it shines on us all alike.
And we all enjoy it.😉
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Whoa!!! I guess we’d better delete Malachi’s prophetic characterization of the Messiah as “the sun of righteousness.”

And you’d better scratch those places in Acts that refer to the cross as a tree because that would be pagan!

What about wine and water? Bread? All gotta go. Pagans used 'em all in their sacrifices!
 
mercygate said:
Whoa!!! I guess we’d better delete Malachi’s prophetic characterization of the Messiah as “the sun of righteousness.”

And you’d better scratch those places in Acts that refer to the cross as a tree because that would be pagan!

What about wine and water? Bread? All gotta go. Pagans used 'em all in their sacrifices!
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Exactly, everything has to go!..Pronto!, people!

Probably, we’ll need to be welded into titanium boxes with no windows.
Maybe we could replace air with some type of high-oxygen liquid.
Was’nt there some windy god at some time…
But I think we’d be safe enough with titanium unless its contained in trace amounts in the rocks the idols were carved in…what sort of rocks were they again…
 
tabcom said:
No. You do understand the difference between want and need don’t you?
Your argument by analogy fails to convince me otherwise.
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Fine. Then please explain, with specific examples, the difference. Is a child who wants a new pair of shoes being covetous? Is wanting, say, a new book or tool always covetous? Things like this are often given as Christmas gifts, under Christmas trees.
What are the proper boundaries for material possessions, in your opinion?
 
HEBREWS 13

***7Remember your leaders, who spoke the word of God to you. Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith. 8Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever. ***
9Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings.

These are good verses to ponder. They warn against self interpreation snd tells us to follow the teaching of our leaders(the Magestrium).

This thread is a perfect exmaple of what happens when one with no training grabs a Bible , pulls verses out randomly and tries to make profound commentary on what “they” have found.
 
Zooey said:
[Note & disclaimer: I am a Monty Python fan of Irish/Welsh descent. The Silly Six have No Idea What They Missed In Me].

It seems obvious to me, if we are to avoid wiccans & other pagans, that we must all,forthwith, Shave Our Heads, and Become :bigyikes:Naked 😦 Vegans.
Until such time as a Proper Meeting Place can be obtained, may I offer the use of my;) Lovely Garden Shed? Though it has but two walls left standing, it has:nope: no connection with paganism at all…A rather close relationship with 😛 Migrating Bats, but :nope: no pagans…
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African or European Migrating Bats?:hmmm:
 
tabcom said:
It is not the historical record that I was refering to. It was the Biblical record.

**Re 17:5 - **
and on her forehead a name {was} written, a mystery, "BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH."

Strong’s Greek Dictionaary
harlot = porne 4204. feminine of pornoV - pornos 4205; a strumpet; figuratively, an idolater:–harlot, whore.
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Then why quote this -​

**
In Gen. 11:4 Babylon rebelled against God; mothering all idol worship, founding their idolatrous system, when they said, “Let us make us a name.” (honor self).
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**
  • to prove that Babylon is the mother of idolatry ? You quoted a verse from Gen.11 - so I commented on that passage; it does not in fact tell us anything about the beginnings of Mesopotamian religion. And that, is a question of history; for the beginnings of that religion go back into the history of Sumer, over a thousand years before Babylon was of any importance.
As to Rev. 17 & 18, it does not show Babylon was the mother of idolatry either. John is not giving a lesson in the history of religions - any more than the author of Gen. 11. 1-9 was - but denouncing a place; rather as when a battle is called “the mother of all battles” - that doesn’t have to mean that it is the very first battle of all. It might be - then again, it might not. ##

Mesopotamia in general: sron.nl/~jheise/akkadian/Welcome_mesopotamia.html

ancientneareast.tripod.com/60.html

ancientneareast.tripod.com/Babylon_Babil.html ##
 
See this is exactly why christmas trees are evil, because they cause smileys to worship them.
 
Tantum_ergo said:
  1. You, tab, think the majority (more than half) of all Christmas trees, in all time, represent covetousness.
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Yes, I do.
Tantum_ergo said:
And you base this on:
2. Your own personal feelings about Christmas being too comercial.
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No, because of the fact that the majority of the world does not believe that Jesus is the Son of God.
Tantum_ergo said:
  1. Your own personal ‘gut’ feelings, and your own emotions when you had a tree, and when you did not.
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I’m not quite sure what you mean here.
Tantum_ergo said:
  1. Your own personal interpretations of select bible passages and the encouragement of the faith group you chose because its emotions and feelings tallied best with your own (obviously it has been proven that if you have difficulties with feelings of one faith group, since you state you were once Catholic ) you leave (since you left Catholicism) over those feelings which you then reinforce with noting your ‘happier’ feelings with those who ‘support you.’
Click to expand...
I’m not quite sure what you mean here either. With all due respect, this is a run on sentence and I cannot follow your point.
Tantum_ergo said:
In all of this do you note that the leitmotif, the common bond, is your own feelings?
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Yes, I do see the Sola Scriptura card being drawn from your deck.
Tantum_ergo said:
Nowhere can you submit any real proof, or give real examples, that the reason that people ‘covet too much’ is tied to idolatrous worship of, and seasonal use of, the Christmas tree.
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**Tanturm Ergo, I am not trying to convince you of not getting involved with the Christmas tree. I’m trying to present an outside-of-the-box view of what the Christmas tree represents the secular world.

Perform this experiment this holiday season. While watching television, listening to the radio, reading the newspaper, going to the mall, or simply going shopping, take a critical look at what the message is being sent by these advertisements. Is it Christian in nature, i. E. death to self (Luke 9:23)? Or is it preaching the devils doctrine of fulfill self? **
Tantum_ergo said:
You asked in your very first post if we did not ‘think’ that the passage in Jeremiah related to Christmas trees.

We said that we do not think so. We have said it over and over and over
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Yes, you have. If you feel like you have satisfactory resolved this issue, you are free to move on to another thread.
 
estesbob said:
This thread is a perfect exmaple of what happens when one with no training grabs a Bible , pulls verses out randomly and tries to make profound commentary on what “they” have found.
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**
First off, for you to presume that I have no biblical training is slightly offensive. I’ve sited over a dozen biblical verses. I’m still waiting for someone to reply with a biblical source and explaination as to why I am incorrect in tying the tree with idolatry, which is wanting more. Even after over 200 posts with no credible biblical rebuttal, it would be presumptuous of me to come to the conclusion that the catholics posting replies to this thread are just plain ignorate. I won’t do that. You shouldn’t either. Secondly, it is not my personal novel opinion that the tree is pagan in origin. I cannot take authorship for it.

In addition, if the tree is christian in nature, how did the church survive nearly 400 years without it? Why didn’t Jesus, Paul, John, or any other author of the bible site it as an important part of christian faith?

Because they didn’t need it. They had something far more powerful, they had the Holy Spirit.

Ro 1:4 - who (Jesus) was declared the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead, according to the Spirit of holiness, Jesus Christ our Lord,

**
 
40.png
Tom:
Atheists and pagans do not, as a general rule, celebrate Christmas.
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All the atheists and pagans I know (and I know several) celebrate Christmas. The true meaning of the holiday is lost behind all the gift giving, which is what I think tab has a problem with, too. For too many people, Christmas has ceased to be a time to remember the birth of the Savior and has become a time to decorate and give/get presents. A friend of mine jokingly gave me a nightshirt that says, “In the spirit of Christmas, gimme, gimme, gimme.” Sadly, that is true for a lot of people.😦

That being said, I don’t worship/idolize my Christmas tree, which is the point of this thread. Sorry if my digression offended anyone.
 
**
Memo to estesbob and all others attempting to refute me:

If you are going to use a biblical source, you better know the context and not paraphrase it to suit your rebuttal.

Heb 13:9
Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teaching. It is good to have our hearts strengthened by grace and not by foods, which do not benefit those who live by them.

Strange teaching: this doctrine about foods probably refers to the Jewish food laws; in view of Hebrews 13:10, however, the author may be thinking of the Mosaic sacrificial banquets.

nccbuscc.org/nab/bible/hebrews/hebrews13.htm#foot2**
 
tabcom said:
First off, for you to presume that I have no biblical training is slightly offensive. I’ve sited over a dozen biblical verses. I’m still waiting for someone to reply with a biblical source and explaination as to why I am incorrect in tying the tree with idolatry, which is wanting more. Even after over 200 posts with no credible biblical rebuttal, it would be presumptuous of me to come to the conclusion that the catholics posting replies to this thread are just plain ignorate. I won’t do that. You shouldn’t either. Secondly, it is not my personal novel opinion that the tree is pagan in origin. I cannot take authorship for it.

**In addition, if the tree is christian in nature, how did the church survive nearly 400 years without it? Why didn’t Jesus, Paul, John, or any other author of the bible site it as an important part of christian faith? **

Because they didn’t need it. They had something far more powerful, they had the Holy Spirit.

Ro 1:4 - who (Jesus) was declared the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead, according to the Spirit of holiness, Jesus Christ our Lord,
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Did you Read these Scriprtue verses and decide that Chrismas trees were idols OR did you decide that you didnt like the tree and go to Scripture to find something to bolster your pre-coceived beliefs? In my experience with those who follow the false doctrine of Sola Sciptura it is usually the latter. It is preety neat creating your own Church-first you decide what you believe, then you run of to Scripture to find some verses you can distort to confirm your beliefs are right!. And of coure no one can dispute you because you accept only Scripture and only your **personal **interperation of Scripture.

Why we should accept your interpreatations over the interperatations of the Church? Interpertations revealed to them over 2,000 years-the Church that was entrusted with formulating what we call the Bible in the first place? What qualifies you to tell a billion people that, based on your reading of a half dozen Scripture verses and **your **personal dislike of Chrismas trees they are idol worshippers?

As I have pointed out before this whole thread is a perfect example of the error that engulfs those who turn their backs on the Church and embark upon creating their own personal Chuch based upon their own personal interpretation of scripture.
 
tabcom,
It seems that you say because the Christmas tree represents this and this and this, it is an idol.
Ok, first you have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that it does in fact represent those things, and represent those things in a clear manner so that everyone knows it represents those things (commericialism, covetousness, relativism)

Second, you have to show that the idol’s that Jeremiah and Kings talk about were in some way similar to the Christmas tree, or at least represented the same things.

I would say that you have not done this.

I have heard many different origins of the Christmas tree, from St. Boniface (I think), to Martin Luther. I have heard many different versions of what it represents, wood to remind us of the cross, evergreen to remind us that God’s love does not fade, lights upon it to remind us of the light of the world, decorations that represent Jesus family tree (My family uses our Christmas tree as a Jesse tree too), Ornaments representing our own family tying into the family of God, an angel or a star on top to represent the star at Christ Birth or the Angels who announced it to the shepherds.

Symbols rarely have one meaning tabcom. You seem to accuse people of idolatry when you have no idea the meaning given to the symbol.

Here are some tree’s that are symbols but have no link to the idolatry

The Cedar of Lebanon- Strength- Look in the book of Job, about the Behemoth whose tail was like a cedar

The dogwood tree- Its blossoms represent the cross, and bear five red marks on them to remind us of the wounds of Christ.

The Sycamore tree-represents sin, the sycamore of Israel was actually a type of fig, reminds us of the fig leaves worn by adam and eve, also sycamores have deep roots, just like sin

The mustard bush- Represents faith, faith is like a mustard seed, it starts small, but becomes the largest of bushes.

Being a tree does not make it evil. Being a symbol does not make it an idol.

A lone Raven
 
estesbob said:
smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_32v.gif

smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_32v.gif

smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/8/8_2_64v.gif
smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_32v.gif

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runandsew said:
See this is exactly why christmas trees are evil, because they cause smileys to worship them.
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[SIGN]
I always said those dang smileys were:bigyikes: up to something!!!

Beware the Atrocious Evil of the Smiley!! Beware, I say!!!
[/SIGN]
 
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