T
tabcom
Guest
**That is an accurate description of the priests I encountered at my hometown parrish.
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- Status
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M
mercygate
Guest
If your parents were Catholic, they did not lie about Santa Clause, because Santa Clause is St. Nicholas. The idea that a saint takes the trouble (albeit through parental agency) to delight little children in the name of Jesus is by no means a lie. And there is no disconnect. Even a small child can understand this when he learns the truth about how Santa’s gifts arrive . . .
The only worrisome confusion is when adults think that God is Santa. This is not a problem with Santa. It is a problem of people who don’t grow up.
A tree is not a “pagan” symbol. A Christmas tree is a Christian folk symbol of the eternal life of Christ. It is not a profound symbol in the degree that bread and wine are symbols, but rather it is the homey sign of an eternal truth: Jesus lives; Jesus is the light of the world shining through the darkness and death of winter. For the believing heart, everything made by the hand of God is a reminder of God himself.
Insofar as a pagan might attribute some kind of divinity to a tree, I say: go for it. He is in that degree approaching the awe and respect for God’s Creation that Christians understand at a more theologically developed level.
T
tequilamac
Guest
I
I_Leatherman
Guest
Thats called evasion tabcom.
I said that you celebrate Christmas almost like a Catholic everytime you read the scriptural account of Christs Birth and feel any sense of gratitude at all.
I think you’re a bit old to be worrying about Santa Claus, or St. Nicholas, who seems to have been a real person, no lie there - don’t be too hard on your parents memory.
No.
Everything is pagan, tabcom. The sun, the moon, the stars.
Everytime you say - ‘…see you saturday…’,
you are saying: '…see you on the Day Dedicated to the god Saturn. ’
Your ancestors were pagans, until someone took the time and trouble to clean them up and call them christian.
Where I live - the springs, rocks, trees, hills, mountains, valleys, hollows, plains, lakes, rivers, streams are all named individually and were considered sacred, and were featured in stories of myths and legends from ancient pagan times. Thats the legacy of Our ancestors. They were not stupid people - they saw the mystery of our existance and recognized the Truth when Christianity was preached to them.
They forego now the worship of created matter - in favour of the worship of the Creator of matter. As the Creator of matter used matter for His creation, there is nothing evil in matter itself or in its use. The Creator of matter constantly uses matter to *remind *His creatures of His Greatness, of His Awesome Creative power. So instead of, as in the past, our attention being focused on the mystery of objects created, our attention has now been shifted to the Creator of objects. We see our Creator in every part, in every object, that He has created, - our admiration is for Our new-found Creator.
In Scripture, the early, and first Christians used trees (yes, actual trees) as a symbol of their respect and admiration and of triumph, at Christs Entry into Jerusalem just before His Passion.
I think your problem is that you have forgotten that it is that which comes out of your heart that makes you unclean, that is - if you insist that you, tabcom, are a pagan tree worshipper everytime you put a tree in your house - and that is why you put a tree in your house - then of course you are a pagan tree worshipper.
But I could put a rhinoceros in my house because it somehow reminds me of the Truth - and that would be fine - because the Truth is Christianity, not the paganism that constantly springs from your heart everytime you see created objects.
J
jmcrae
Guest
Well, it is one step down the slippery slope of atheism, when a person takes Christianity out of their social calendar, and says, “I will no longer celebrate my faith, or have any kind of parties in honour of my Saviour.”
Once you kick Jesus out of one aspect of your life (even if it is the “trivial” non-intellectual side of life), it is not a very long step to kick Him out of the rest of one’s life, too.
I am very familiar with these readings - I learned them in my early childhood.
Do you want to know how I learned them, even though I was so young?
It is because my parents and grandparents always read them to me at Christmas time, while sitting near our Christmas tree, and contemplating the meaning of our Christmas celebration.
These readings are also read out at Christ Mass (from which we get the word “Christmas”), which is the Mass that is held on December 25th in honour of Our Lord’s Nativity.
T
tabcom
Guest
**I want to return to the topic of this thread.
Book of Jeremiah 10:2
Thus says the LORD, "Do not learn the way of the nations . . .
The original Hebrew word for way is jrd.
according to searchgodsword.org:
way can mean:
My New American Catholic Bible translates jrd into customs:
What is the Christian Bible equivalent for ‘way’?
Matt 7:13 (Jesus said)
“Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.”
The original Greek word for way is hodos.
according to searchgodsword.org:
way can mean:
Just as with other prophecies, this was written for our time, to our people, and referring to the common customs of the modern world. Why is this important? Because it points to the end of all things.**
Book of Jeremiah 10:2
Thus says the LORD, "Do not learn the way of the nations . . .
The original Hebrew word for way is jrd.
according to searchgodsword.org:
way can mean:
Code:
1. road, way, path
2. journey
3. direction
4. manner, habit, way
5. of course of life (fig.)
6. of moral character (fig.)What is the Christian Bible equivalent for ‘way’?
Matt 7:13 (Jesus said)
“Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.”
The original Greek word for way is hodos.
according to searchgodsword.org:
way can mean:
- properly
- a way
- a travelled way, road
- a travellers way, journey, travelling
- a way
- metaph.
- a course of conduct
- a way (i.e. manner) of thinking, feeling, deciding
Just as with other prophecies, this was written for our time, to our people, and referring to the common customs of the modern world. Why is this important? Because it points to the end of all things.**
M
mercygate
Guest
I am not surprised to hear this. What is tragic is that in your hunger for the truth you went looking for it in all the wrong places, when it was right there at your hand all the time.That is an accurate description of the priests I encountered at my hometown parrish.
**
As a teacher of 6th grade CCD, I find that parents of my kids have good hearts and good intentions but are often painfully ignorant of Scripture and good Church teaching. I was trained as a minister in a Protestant denomination, and I came to Catholicism kicking and screaming every inch of the way. For me, unfolding the mysteries of Catholicism was a magnificent adventure – even when I hated to admit it.
Your story is not unusual. I think Catholics, more than other Christians, acquire a particular hunger for God in their youth and sometimes it draws them to wells where the water is not as clear as it should be.
R
runandsew
Guest
I personally am not looking for signs of the end times, I am trying to live my life as a Christian, trying to do the works of God in my daily life (to pray, and to love others), and living everyday as if it was my last day. It is hard, and I slip many times.
Christ warns us about trying to read the signs of the times, but he did say they must all happen before he returns, this is to give us comfort in times of trouble, and persecution.
You write that this prophecy was written for “our times”, do you say this because you believe that we are now at the brink of the end of the world, or did you mean that it was written for the people of God for all times, so that they might know what will happen at the end times, whenever it will be?
Z
Zooey
Guest
http://bestsmileys.com/nono/2.gifDinna be ye underestimating my family, laddy.
And by the way, what makes you think we are talking about a “baby believer”??? :nope: Not at all; a practicing Baptist Christian of many years standing, who is
reaping the fruits of a combination of sola scriptura & an attraction for finding “something new” in an old, old book…It is alwayshttp://bestsmileys.com/crying/6.gif sad for me to see someone fall prey to notions , when there is the Way, the Truth, & the Life, waiting for His erring ones to come home*…
*Home >>>>> http://bestsmileys.com/religous/6.gif
V
valient_Lucy
Guest
L
Lion
Guest
I guess I’m a pagan/heathen… I adorned my walls with paint and wallpaper (gold tones at that); i furnished my place with furniture and i even put in a chandelier (in the dining room (it was pretty cheap); I placed lush carpet throughout; have some pictures and adorned my place with other decorative items. Does this mean I worship my house???
T
tabcom
Guest
**If you are endlessly wanting more for your house, then you made your home an idol.
Luke 12:15 And he (Jesus) said unto them, Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man’s life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth.
Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Col 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
Covetousness = Idolatry
covetousness- greek: pleonektes- to want more; greediness
Idolatry = wanting more
Every man is covetous by nature until God deals with him and causes him to repent (turn from self to God). The word devil (daimon) means to distribute fortunes. A covetous man who “wants more” has a devil. Covetousness is the idolatrous worship of self. It is an idolatry as evil as falling down before Baal, the christmas tree, the golden calf, or any one of the ancient pagan deities of Babylon.
Paul said, “having food and raiment, let us be there with content” (I Tim. 6:8). He also said, “I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content.” (Phil. 4:11).
People, myself included, are involved in idolatry when they refuse to be content with what they have. Their hearts cry out, “I want more.”**
T
tabcom
Guest
**valient Lucy . . . The bible does not point to an exact hour. However, the bible does give the believer warning signs.
I Thess. 5:2, 4, 6 – For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night – But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day should overtake you as a thief. – Therefore let us not sleep (spiritually) as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
Jesus said no one knows the exact time of his coming. However, we can know the approximate time by the signs he has given us in the corresponding chapters of Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21.
As a result of Jewish idol worship (Baal, the groves, the golden calf) we see sword, famine, and pestilence as prophesied by the prophets, as well as John in Revelation (The 7 trumpets - Rev. 6-10; the 7 vials - Rev. 16 ).
We see the prophecy of Daniel’s 70 weeks ( weeks of years - Dan. 9:24-27 - Chronological time concerning judgement of this idolatry) beginning with the decree of Artaxerxes (Neh. 2:1-9) to rebuild the city and wall of Jerusalem (Dan. 9:25) and ending the 69th week (483 years) with the coming of Messiah the Prince (Jesus - Luke 19:38-42 ). The Prince (Jesus) was rejected as king (of Israel), thus ushering in the interval between the 69th and 70th week called the times of the Gentiles (Luke 21:24), by the blinding of the eyes of the Jews (Luke 19:42; Rom. 11: 7,8,25).
We see 2000 years (two days – II Peter 3:8), which are the last (two) days of a six day period (6000 years) given to the Gentiles (all who are not Jews) to repent. Then we see the fulfillment of Ezekiel’s vision of the valley of dry bones (Ezek. 37:1,2) in the calling back of Israel to their homeland in order to unite them into one army and one kingdom (Ezek. 37:4-10, 16:22).
For the first time in 2600 years they are no longer two nations, the kingdom having split under Rehoboam the son of Solomon ( I Kings 12:16-33). Northern Israel was carried into captivity in 722 B.C. (II Kings 17:5,6 18:11,12); southern Judah in 586 B.C. (II Chron. 36:17-21).
God will never allow Israel to be rooted up again ( Amos 9:14, 15). Declaring themselves a nation on May 14, 1948, God has brought them back that he may accomplish Daniel’s 70th week which we call the 7 year tribulation. At the end of which, Israel shall know and do all righteousness (Dan. 9:24; Ezek. 37:23-28).
As the days of Noah were, so shall the coming of the son of man (Jesus) be at the end of time. The world will be eating and drinking (partying, fulfilling their own desires), marrying and giving in marriage (marrying truth and a lie) (Matt. 24:38).
The world will be asleep and overtaken as a thief, being blinded to these events by their own lusts (Matt. 24:42-44). The Gentile rule over the Jews is finished (Luke 21:24). This is the generation that will not pass away until all be fulfilled (Luke 21:32).
When the Gentiles rule over the Jews is finished, which has happened from May 14, 1948, to this present time (Nov. 23 1996),we will see this generation, the 70th week of Daniel, (the last 7 years of time) consumated. All will be fulfilled. Jesus said, " When these things ‘BEGIN’ to come to pass lift up your head, and look up, for your redemption is nigh (Luke 21:28)."
The Jewish Covenant concerns their God and “their land” (Gen.17:7,8). This is everything that is being negotiated between the Arab nations and Israel. Events in the Middle-East point to the end.
The signs of the end are everywhere. Repent, for the end is at the door.wealth and self. America is “New Babylon”. The beast (world order), the waters (peoples, multitudes, nations, tongues) and the 7 heads (7 mountains- 7 world systems) are all the same throne where the harlot sits. A mountain was the seat of a ruling empire (Jer. 51:25). Throughout scripture, Babylon is a system of pride. Paul said that covetousness (wanting more for self) is idolatry (Eph. 5:5; Col. 3:5). The “new world order” will be the last “beast” that God will destroy. (Rev. 13:1; 19:19-20).
What does this have to do with the tree?
The tree was in the garden. God threw out Adam and Eve for worshiping it.
The tree was in Israel. God led Israel into captivity for worshiping it.
The tree exist today. What do you think God is going to do about it?
**
I Thess. 5:2, 4, 6 – For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night – But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day should overtake you as a thief. – Therefore let us not sleep (spiritually) as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
Code:
* watch - Greek: gregoreuo - keep awake; stand alert or watch.As a result of Jewish idol worship (Baal, the groves, the golden calf) we see sword, famine, and pestilence as prophesied by the prophets, as well as John in Revelation (The 7 trumpets - Rev. 6-10; the 7 vials - Rev. 16 ).
We see the prophecy of Daniel’s 70 weeks ( weeks of years - Dan. 9:24-27 - Chronological time concerning judgement of this idolatry) beginning with the decree of Artaxerxes (Neh. 2:1-9) to rebuild the city and wall of Jerusalem (Dan. 9:25) and ending the 69th week (483 years) with the coming of Messiah the Prince (Jesus - Luke 19:38-42 ). The Prince (Jesus) was rejected as king (of Israel), thus ushering in the interval between the 69th and 70th week called the times of the Gentiles (Luke 21:24), by the blinding of the eyes of the Jews (Luke 19:42; Rom. 11: 7,8,25).
We see 2000 years (two days – II Peter 3:8), which are the last (two) days of a six day period (6000 years) given to the Gentiles (all who are not Jews) to repent. Then we see the fulfillment of Ezekiel’s vision of the valley of dry bones (Ezek. 37:1,2) in the calling back of Israel to their homeland in order to unite them into one army and one kingdom (Ezek. 37:4-10, 16:22).
For the first time in 2600 years they are no longer two nations, the kingdom having split under Rehoboam the son of Solomon ( I Kings 12:16-33). Northern Israel was carried into captivity in 722 B.C. (II Kings 17:5,6 18:11,12); southern Judah in 586 B.C. (II Chron. 36:17-21).
God will never allow Israel to be rooted up again ( Amos 9:14, 15). Declaring themselves a nation on May 14, 1948, God has brought them back that he may accomplish Daniel’s 70th week which we call the 7 year tribulation. At the end of which, Israel shall know and do all righteousness (Dan. 9:24; Ezek. 37:23-28).
As the days of Noah were, so shall the coming of the son of man (Jesus) be at the end of time. The world will be eating and drinking (partying, fulfilling their own desires), marrying and giving in marriage (marrying truth and a lie) (Matt. 24:38).
The world will be asleep and overtaken as a thief, being blinded to these events by their own lusts (Matt. 24:42-44). The Gentile rule over the Jews is finished (Luke 21:24). This is the generation that will not pass away until all be fulfilled (Luke 21:32).
When the Gentiles rule over the Jews is finished, which has happened from May 14, 1948, to this present time (Nov. 23 1996),we will see this generation, the 70th week of Daniel, (the last 7 years of time) consumated. All will be fulfilled. Jesus said, " When these things ‘BEGIN’ to come to pass lift up your head, and look up, for your redemption is nigh (Luke 21:28)."
The Jewish Covenant concerns their God and “their land” (Gen.17:7,8). This is everything that is being negotiated between the Arab nations and Israel. Events in the Middle-East point to the end.
The signs of the end are everywhere. Repent, for the end is at the door.wealth and self. America is “New Babylon”. The beast (world order), the waters (peoples, multitudes, nations, tongues) and the 7 heads (7 mountains- 7 world systems) are all the same throne where the harlot sits. A mountain was the seat of a ruling empire (Jer. 51:25). Throughout scripture, Babylon is a system of pride. Paul said that covetousness (wanting more for self) is idolatry (Eph. 5:5; Col. 3:5). The “new world order” will be the last “beast” that God will destroy. (Rev. 13:1; 19:19-20).
What does this have to do with the tree?
The tree was in the garden. God threw out Adam and Eve for worshiping it.
The tree was in Israel. God led Israel into captivity for worshiping it.
The tree exist today. What do you think God is going to do about it?
**
V
valient_Lucy
Guest
F
FCEGM
Guest
Right, Lucy. Also, the tree that Adam and Eve ate from wasn’t the only tree in the Garden. There was also the Tree of Life, and the Christmas tree stands in beauty and honor for the One Who is the Giver of that life.
L
Lion
Guest
Actually, my home is quite humble… What I want more of is more Truth and Peace for you! Peace be with you tabcom.
T
tabcom
Guest
**From where did the first tree worship begin?
Genesis 2:16 17 – of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat - But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shall not eat of it.
And what was the ‘real power’ that was promised to Eve?
Genesis 3:5
“For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
When one bows down to accept a gift from the tree, they are doing three things: they want that present with their name on it (lust of the eye). After opening the gift and seeing that they received what they wished for (lust of the flesh), it makes them feel good (pride of life).
What’s wrong with that?
1 John 2:15-17
15
Do not love the world or the things of the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16
For all that is in the world, sensual lust, enticement for the eyes, and pride life, is not from the Father but is from the world.
17
Yet the world and its enticement are passing away. But whoever does the will of God remains forever.
**
T
tabcom
Guest
**In Deut.12:29-32, we read:
“When the LORD thy God shall cut off the nations from before thee, whither thou goest to possess them, and thou succeedest them, and dwellest in their land; Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou Inquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise. Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: for every abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods. What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.”
Notice that the Lord God hates the things that the heathens do unto their gods. A well-known witch, Silver Ravenwolf, wrote a book to instruct young witches in the craft. She is the director of the Wiccan/Pagan Press Alliance, a network of Pagan newsletters, publishers, and writers. She has been a witch since she was seventeen. She carries many pagan titles reaching international status, and her hearthstone coven is known as “Coven of the Wolf”. In her book, she talks to new pagan recruits about holidays, and how to handle them.
“Depending upon your previous religious background, your first year of Craft celebrations and holidays may be a bit confusing. You may find yourself acknowledging generally accepted holidays with your family and friends right along with the private celebration of your Craft special days. There is nothing wrong with this. Our family is a large one with many children. I am a Witch, but my husband is a Pagan and my father is a Christian. Therefore, we still celebrate the coming of Santa on December 25th, right along with Yule from December 20-23, depending upon the actual time of the solstice. Granted, some of the double holidays create a little more work, but it is well worth it!..It is acceptable to continue double holidays for your entire lifetime. In Witchcraft it really doesn’t matter! All positive forms of celebration are accepted” (To Ride A Silver Broomstick: New Generation Witchcraft, Silver RavenWolf., 31).
Amazon Link
**
“When the LORD thy God shall cut off the nations from before thee, whither thou goest to possess them, and thou succeedest them, and dwellest in their land; Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou Inquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise. Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: for every abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods. What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.”
Notice that the Lord God hates the things that the heathens do unto their gods. A well-known witch, Silver Ravenwolf, wrote a book to instruct young witches in the craft. She is the director of the Wiccan/Pagan Press Alliance, a network of Pagan newsletters, publishers, and writers. She has been a witch since she was seventeen. She carries many pagan titles reaching international status, and her hearthstone coven is known as “Coven of the Wolf”. In her book, she talks to new pagan recruits about holidays, and how to handle them.
“Depending upon your previous religious background, your first year of Craft celebrations and holidays may be a bit confusing. You may find yourself acknowledging generally accepted holidays with your family and friends right along with the private celebration of your Craft special days. There is nothing wrong with this. Our family is a large one with many children. I am a Witch, but my husband is a Pagan and my father is a Christian. Therefore, we still celebrate the coming of Santa on December 25th, right along with Yule from December 20-23, depending upon the actual time of the solstice. Granted, some of the double holidays create a little more work, but it is well worth it!..It is acceptable to continue double holidays for your entire lifetime. In Witchcraft it really doesn’t matter! All positive forms of celebration are accepted” (To Ride A Silver Broomstick: New Generation Witchcraft, Silver RavenWolf., 31).
Amazon Link
**
T
tequilamac
Guest
How terribly interesting. And just think we on the forum would not have known anything at all of these witchly celebrations if you had not decided to educate us in them.
Do you have more info on sin you would like to share with us? Or do you think having us eat one apple a day is enough?
T
tabcom
Guest
“The shortest day of the year and, of course, the longest night. This is usually the 20th or 21st of December. Yuletide (the Teutonic version) lasts from December 20th through December 31st. It begins on “Mother Night” and ends twelve days later on “Yule Night:” hence the “twelve days of Christmas” tradition. In Pecti-Wita Yule falls on December 22nd and is called Feill Fionnain. In the Caledonii Tradition it is called Alban Arthan and is not considered a fire festival. A time when the waxing sun overcomes the waning sun. In some traditions, it is a time when the Holly King (representing the death aspect of the God) is overcome by the Oak King (who embodies the rebirth of the God, and is sometimes referred to us the Divine Child). Since this is a solar festival, it is celebrated by fire and the use of the Yule log. The colors of the season, red and green, are of original Pagan decent. The act of cutting and decorating the Yule Tree and exchanging gifts are also Pagan derivatives. Wreaths of holly and fancy cookies and breads are a part of our tradition, as well. Food is prepared specially for the after-dinner Yule celebration when the tree is lighted and the Yule log is burned. A portion of the Yule log is saved to be used in lighting next year’s log. This piece is kept throughout the year to protect the home. Bayberry candles are also burned to ensure wealth and happiness throughout the following year. They can be placed on the dining table at sunset and burned until they go out by themselves. Another pair can be set upon the mantle and lit at the beginning of the Yule ceremony. The reindeer stag is also a reminder of the horned God, so if you find yourself trying to choose a card for both Christian and Pagan friends, choose a nature scene that includes a stag—an easy way not to offend anyone. You will find that many traditional Christmas decorations have some type of Pagan ancestry or significance that can be added to your Yule holiday” (To Ride A Silver Broomstick: New Generation Witchcraft, Silver RavenWolf., 34).
**
Christians are commanded not to have any fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather, reprove them. **
- Status