Is the Church becoming more liberal or more traditional?

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Monica4316

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I keep on hearing how the Church was ‘infiltrated’ with liberalism around the 70s, 80s… I wasn’t around back then, but I was wondering, do you think that now the Church is continuing in this direction, or becoming more conservative than before (“before” meaning right after VII)?

thanks 🙂
 
The Church is not and cannot be liberal or traditional. There is one truth, one doctrine. It simply is.
 
One can not apply political terms when speaking of theology. Theological liberals are simply element for change. Liberal theologians are a vital part of the way the Holy Spirit develops doctrine and has nothing to do with the meaning of the political term. Without the (name removed by moderator)ut of these elements of Change, the Church would never see doctrinal development. On the other hand, conservative theologians are what tie us to our traditions and serve as a check against heresy.

The same information revolution that has affected the world has also given the Church a greater ease of communication. Change occurs more rapidly as a natural result of this ease of communication. However, also see that change has occurred so rapidly that divergence in both theology and liturgy is separating Catholics. I think the next move we will see is toward a codification and unification of both.

We may be able to grow faster in the twenty-first century, but we must first learn how to do so without a loss of tradition.
 
Judging from the high school students, seminarians, and new priests that I’ve met, I would say that the Church is losing some of the trendiness and craziness that tended to characterize some past decades. That’s not so much ‘conservative’ as it is simply Catholic.
 
1ke said:
The Church is not and cannot be liberal or traditional. There is one truth, one doctrine. It simply is.
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Maybe the OP means the Catholic population, rather than the Church 🤷 When I watch EWTN I walk away feeling hopeful, because it seems like there is a generation coming up that takes Catholic orthodoxy seriously. On the other hand, I can’t believe how many voted for Obama knowing his views on abortion.
 
I think that’s a great question. I wonder about it myself. (I realize that “liberal” and “conservative” are problematic terms; but I think I know what OP means.)

I see some signs that suggest a renewed appreciation of tradition; but hard to tell. Oh, for some empirical data . . …

ASD​

Traditional Latin Mass: Translation and Grammar
 
Since tradition is the Holy Spirit active in the life of the Church, she is by definition always traditional.

Individuals–even large, recongizable numbers of them–may be traditional or may not be.
 
Since tradition is the Holy Spirit active in the life of the Church, she is by definition always traditional.

Individuals–even large, recongizable numbers of them–may be traditional or may not be.
 
1ke said:
The Church is not and cannot be liberal or traditional. There is one truth, one doctrine. It simply is.
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:)I disagree

For instance, Priests used to take an oath against Modernism. But they don’t anymore. That would suggest to me that modernism has crept into the Church because the Church has become more liberal.
 
Lisa44 said:
:)I disagree

For instance, Priests used to take an oath against Modernism. But they don’t anymore. That would suggest to me that modernism has crept into the Church because the Church has become more liberal.
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Modernism is not liberalism and the two really have little in common except they are both used as bogey man words.
 
It’s getting too liberal. letting bishops let priests have too much leway in the rites. the rites of VII are so beautiful if they are done right. I see priests in street clothes hearing confession out here. only wearing clericals before “they go to work”. we are suppost to be “working” 24 hours.
 
I think more Christians, both Catholic and Protestant, are falling away from the faith because they haven’t studied and they don’t know enough about God to keep them well-grounded in truth.

It’s amazing how little knowledge about their own Church the cradle Catholics have (I’m a convert.). Catholics ask ME questions about Catholicism! That’s pathetic!

And it’s amazing how very little knowledge of basic theology, doctrine, and even Bible that Protestant Christians have. Just this Sunday, at my parents-in-law’s church, the woman pastor told the congregation that Jesus went to a divine place while He was dead. Since when is hell (“He descended into hell”) divine?

I’ve heard Protestant pastors teach that Jesus didn’t really rise from the dead. And my father law says that the Bible doesn’t say we are supposed to take Communion at every church service. (I guess he read Acts of the Apostles recently–but he does have a degree in Bible from a Bible college.)

I used to hang out on a Protestant forum, and I asked the question once how many had actually read the entire Bible. Only one person out of dozens of posters had actually read it through, and that was years ago. And that’s just “reading it through,” not studying it!

I don’t think I would want to ask that question here on CAF, or ask the question, “How many have read the entire Catechism of the Catholic Church?”
(And I wouldn’t even think of asking “How many have studied the entire CCC?!”)
 
Contarini said:
Theology is a function of the Christian community, and communities are by definition political. So you are wrong.

Edwin
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After reading these terms misused for five years here? I do not think I am “wrong.” But then “wrong” is also a misused word and should not be applied to opinions in a subjective areas.
 
As some have pointed out, Doctrine can not be conservative or liberal, it is the interpretation of it which is classified under the two categories.

If we look at the Church pastorally it is more liberal now than conservative.
 
LumenGent said:
As some have pointed out, Doctrine can not be conservative or liberal, it is the interpretation of it which is classified under the two categories.
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Now that is the right way to put it. 👍

I wish I had thought of it :o
 
Here’s an observation from Father Z on his blog, What Does The Prayer Really Say:

*Archbishop Dolan said he wants to restore pride in being Catholic, [EXCELLENT. Interestingly I heard on a Catholic radio program the other day Bp. Sheridan speaking to the issue of our Catholic identity. **As I have been saying, Pope Benedict’s pontificate is focused on a revitalization of our Catholic identity.] *especially following the scandals arising from clerical sexual abuse, which he described as a continuing source of shame.

Archbishop Dolan also spoke about the need for Catholics to defend their faith.

“Periodically, we Catholics have to stand up and say, `Enough’,” Archbishop Dolan told the Associated Press. “The church as a whole still calls out to what is noble in us.”

wdtprs.com/blog/

It seems to me many Church leaders, including the Holy Father, want to bring us back to our natural culture and faith. This isn’t necessarily ‘liberal’, ‘conservative’, ‘orthodox’ or any other label. By definition, Catholic is one, holy, apostolic, and universal. Tradition is what sets us apart from Protestants and the other Christian off-shoots. The post-Vatican II years have indeed been marked by chaos and modernism, but hopefully we are nearly the end of those times and moving towards a proper interpretation of Council documents and a renewal of our faith.
 
1ke said:
The Church is not and cannot be liberal or traditional. There is one truth, one doctrine. It simply is.
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Bravo!
you know I was actually thinking about that statement…or something similar the other day when I remembered someone saying “oh thats a liberal catholic church” or “thats a conservative catholic parish”. I thought, if I was the pope I would say what you did but add, “we have one magestirium with one truth that does not change”.
 
If you look back through history, it’s only been 150 years or so that people begun differentiating between the two terms, before that it was almost non existant. As with all things the original meaning has been stretched to encompass everything. A big mistake many make is to equate liberalism with ‘open mindedness’ and traditionalsim with ‘narrow mindedness’
 
pnewton said:
Modernism is not liberalism and the two really have little in common except they are both used as bogey man words.
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In the oath against Modernism, liberalism would fall under that umbrella of a modern heresy. Now I believe it is customary to name the particular heresy, instead of using the umbrella of ‘Modernism’.

Bogey man words??? You must explain your assertion that the words ‘modernism’ and ‘liberalism’ are bogey man words.🙂 Unless of course your pupose is to deliberately confuse and obfuscate valid points.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modernism_(Roman_Catholicism

franciscan-archive.org/bullarium/oath.html

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_Against_Modernism
 
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