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Lancer
Guest
Paraphrasing and data and quotes from John Allen, National Catholic Reporter’s Rome Bureau Chief…ncronline.org/blogs/all-things-catholic/three-myths-about-church-give-lent
Pax Christi
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Maria1993
Guest
I have to agree. In an episode of Church Militant’s: The Vortex
he stated something about the church not dissapearing, but getting smaller, ‘pruned’. It is a really interesting episode. But let us not lose hope. The gatesof hell shall never prevail, no matter how big or small the church is
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Mariem2
Guest
Sorry to be so pessimistic, but I sincerely hope that there are good psychological tests for those seminarians. Better to invest in psychologists now than lawyers later.
The Church will never die, but she’s certainly taking a hammering throughout Europe these days.
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Diana_Catherine
Guest
I love this. So true.
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aidanbradypop
Guest
I believe it is stronger now than ever! Good time to be Catholic! 
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Seamus_L
Guest
While we do know there will always be a faithful remnant. I’d say that in America, the statement that the church is dying, isn’t too far off the mark.
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Kal2012
Guest
It needs to be clarified that in some Middle Eastern countries, women are well-educated. A lot of women are trained in the West to be doctors and go back to their home countries to treat patients. That’s not unusual in Saudi or other wealthier Arab nations. That would be really unusual in a place like Afghanistan or the former Soviet states w/large Muslim populations.
That’s not to say that there still aren’t the rigid rules in wealthier Arab countries, but there are differences in opportunities for women based on a country’s tradition/wealth.
We need to be careful when making generalizations.
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Marie5890
Guest
Great interview with Benedict XVI (then Card. Ratzinger) and what he expects the Church to look like in the years to come.
Much smaller, but stronger in faith.
youtube.com/watch?v=AKVO_v2FbtE
It’s important keep the Church in it’s 2000 years old perspective , and not the perspective of only 100 (the 20th Century) years.
I think some people look at the last 100 years and think that is how the Church “always was”…That is far from reality.
Much smaller, but stronger in faith.
youtube.com/watch?v=AKVO_v2FbtE
It’s important keep the Church in it’s 2000 years old perspective , and not the perspective of only 100 (the 20th Century) years.
I think some people look at the last 100 years and think that is how the Church “always was”…That is far from reality.
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Marie5890
Guest
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Kal2012
Guest
To answer the question:
No - overall, I don’t think the church is dying. The American church has a lot of challenges, but I don’t think it’s dying because people are still joining the church.
That said, the church has become complacent because they don’t want to rock anyone’s boat. That’s a different problem than whether the church is dying.
Also, a lot of people left because of the scandals and not wanting to be associated with a group that ignored allegations of child abuse. That’s different than leaving because the theology is wrong. That’s a leadership problem. That’s a trust problem. Those problems are the type where it’s just going to take time for people to forgive and see that there really is a different pattern of behavior from leadership. They want to see Priests punished for bad behavior, not just moved around from parish to parish w/no accountability for their criminal behavior. It takes time to establish whether something is a pattern of behavior or a just a fluke that it happened one time. There’s just no way around that.
Some people have left because of the social stuff (can’t use birth control/anti-abortion/women priests/gay people). Again, it’s not the theology. Some people just think the church should accept secular behavior, regardless if it fits church teaching or not. I don’t think this is the majority of people who have left the church.
I tend to think the church is rebuilding after self-inflected wounds. A lot of people in the younger generation love* the church and just aren’t cynical like me (Gen-X) or the Baby Boomers.
No - overall, I don’t think the church is dying. The American church has a lot of challenges, but I don’t think it’s dying because people are still joining the church.
That said, the church has become complacent because they don’t want to rock anyone’s boat. That’s a different problem than whether the church is dying.
Also, a lot of people left because of the scandals and not wanting to be associated with a group that ignored allegations of child abuse. That’s different than leaving because the theology is wrong. That’s a leadership problem. That’s a trust problem. Those problems are the type where it’s just going to take time for people to forgive and see that there really is a different pattern of behavior from leadership. They want to see Priests punished for bad behavior, not just moved around from parish to parish w/no accountability for their criminal behavior. It takes time to establish whether something is a pattern of behavior or a just a fluke that it happened one time. There’s just no way around that.
Some people have left because of the social stuff (can’t use birth control/anti-abortion/women priests/gay people). Again, it’s not the theology. Some people just think the church should accept secular behavior, regardless if it fits church teaching or not. I don’t think this is the majority of people who have left the church.
I tend to think the church is rebuilding after self-inflected wounds. A lot of people in the younger generation love* the church and just aren’t cynical like me (Gen-X) or the Baby Boomers.
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robwar
Guest
“The gates of Hell will not Prevail against it”. Whatever news source you are listening to wants you to think this. You have to realize that they have an anti-religious agenda. While overall attendance may be down in western culture and that is included Protestant and Jewish faiths, those who are trying to to practice and attend are much more vibrant. You ought to drop the major news sources because they are not accurate.I’m no doubting the Faith itself, but I heard on the news that the Church is fading in Europe and America. This really worries me. I know that Jesus said that nothing will conquer the Church, but what if the Church died in America and Europe. I know that the Vatican will always be in Rome, but France is starting to lose its Catholic heritage, same with Denmark. Is the Church winding down? I realize that it’s growing in Africa and the Church has a large presence in South and Latin America. But it still worries that the Church is fading in many parts of the world. Is anyone else worried about this? Or am I just paranoid?
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ffg
Guest
If by dying, the ‘news’ means people who claim to be Catholic folding like deck chairs to every new trend when questioned, they (news) are not following (Interviewing) the Church, they are following those who are choosing the wide path.I’m no doubting the Faith itself, but I heard on the news that the Church is fading in Europe and America. This really worries me. I know that Jesus said that nothing will conquer the Church, but what if the Church died in America and Europe. I know that the Vatican will always be in Rome, but France is starting to lose its Catholic heritage, same with Denmark. Is the Church winding down? I realize that it’s growing in Africa and the Church has a large presence in South and Latin America. But it still worries that the Church is fading in many parts of the world. Is anyone else worried about this? Or am I just paranoid?
The wide path is not the Church, will never be the Church.
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chero23
Guest
I don’t think the Church is dying. I heard on the news, “oh, the church is facing problems of ppl leaving the Church”.I remember when Pope Benedict took office, their were around 1.1- 1.2 billion of us Catholics, now its up to around 1.4 billion. So we grew 300 million faithful in 8 years which is around 25 million a year coming into the Church.
Remember protesants are coming to the Church. Talks are ongoing with the Orthodox Church and Anglican Church. I think you will see conservitive blocks of Protestants come into the Church.
Keep in mind that the Church has always been persecuted, it had been said to be on life support, but we always come out on top, thats bc God, the saints, and angels fight hard for the Church
Remember protesants are coming to the Church. Talks are ongoing with the Orthodox Church and Anglican Church. I think you will see conservitive blocks of Protestants come into the Church.
Keep in mind that the Church has always been persecuted, it had been said to be on life support, but we always come out on top, thats bc God, the saints, and angels fight hard for the Church
J
Journey322
Guest
Society in general is becoming more worldly. Even in the US it seems to be becoming taboo to be a Christian. There may be a temporary growth in certain denominations that focus a lot on the entertainment factor, but I suspect that this too will eventually wan. Society is very self-focused and gratification seeking. People don’t want to hear that there is right and wrong. Humbling ourselves before a Higher Power and laying aside our own sinful desires are not popular concepts, and this mentality will likely only continue to progress.I’m no doubting the Faith itself, but I heard on the news that the Church is fading in Europe and America. This really worries me. I know that Jesus said that nothing will conquer the Church, but what if the Church died in America and Europe. I know that the Vatican will always be in Rome, but France is starting to lose its Catholic heritage, same with Denmark. Is the Church winding down? I realize that it’s growing in Africa and the Church has a large presence in South and Latin America. But it still worries that the Church is fading in many parts of the world. Is anyone else worried about this? Or am I just paranoid?
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otjm
Guest
To those who like statistics, there are plenty out there and they don’t look so good in either Europe or America.
In Europe, many if not most countries are in the 10% to 5% of the Catholic population attending Mass on a weekly (Sunday obligation) basis. It was primarily Europe that Benedict 16 was addressing when he spoke of a remenant church.
As to Ameica, things are not so good, but better perhaps than Europe. The statistics vary (in part by what question is asked and how it is asked); Sunday Mass attendance seems to be somewhere bettween 20% and 30%.
However, a breakdown of attendance by age group puts the largest attendance by those over 50; and it goes downhill from there. when one gets to the 18 - 25 year age group, it is somehwere around 18% - 20%. And one only needs to listen to conversations of adults in the 50+ age group to hear the stories of their children not attending Mass.
There are any number of issues at play; part of it is the sad state that catechesis went into not long after Vatican 2, and the 20 to 30year span it took to get decent materials written and into play (and that is still an ongoing issue). Pert of it is secualrism and all the other issues (materialism, e.g.) that come into play; part of it is the change in sexual morals (or lack thereof) which in turn is coupled with later and later marriage ages (and one can include the divorce rate in that issue); part of it is abortion, which has reduced the number of children at all. There is no one single issue at play, but rather a toxic stew of many things.
If you want to see statistics, look for work done by CARA out of Georgetown University.
In Europe, many if not most countries are in the 10% to 5% of the Catholic population attending Mass on a weekly (Sunday obligation) basis. It was primarily Europe that Benedict 16 was addressing when he spoke of a remenant church.
As to Ameica, things are not so good, but better perhaps than Europe. The statistics vary (in part by what question is asked and how it is asked); Sunday Mass attendance seems to be somewhere bettween 20% and 30%.
However, a breakdown of attendance by age group puts the largest attendance by those over 50; and it goes downhill from there. when one gets to the 18 - 25 year age group, it is somehwere around 18% - 20%. And one only needs to listen to conversations of adults in the 50+ age group to hear the stories of their children not attending Mass.
There are any number of issues at play; part of it is the sad state that catechesis went into not long after Vatican 2, and the 20 to 30year span it took to get decent materials written and into play (and that is still an ongoing issue). Pert of it is secualrism and all the other issues (materialism, e.g.) that come into play; part of it is the change in sexual morals (or lack thereof) which in turn is coupled with later and later marriage ages (and one can include the divorce rate in that issue); part of it is abortion, which has reduced the number of children at all. There is no one single issue at play, but rather a toxic stew of many things.
If you want to see statistics, look for work done by CARA out of Georgetown University.
J
just_came_back
Guest
No such thing as a dead parish. Only dead members(those that have left) or those that are dying. Trust me, I’ve been in both sets of shoes. I’m sorry but the Easter-Christmas catholics have RUINED the faith. Get involved!!!
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CMSUVulcan
Guest
No, the Church is not dying. I think there is sadly a weeding out, but it is not dying. If the Church survived persecution under Rome, Islam, the Great Schism, the Western Schism, the Reformation, the Enlightenment, Napoleon, Modernism, and Communism then I see no reason that it will not continue far into the future. The Church will never die as long as there are good priests and bishops, good religious, good families, and the young. We had 2 million young people in Madrid at WYD in 2011 and well I think the Church may be in a time of crisis, of course you have to ask yourself when has the Church ever not been in a time of Crisis, but I think it is going to survive and future historians will be writing about the Church’s great struggles with the heresies of modernism and materialism.I’m no doubting the Faith itself, but I heard on the news that the Church is fading in Europe and America. This really worries me. I know that Jesus said that nothing will conquer the Church, but what if the Church died in America and Europe. I know that the Vatican will always be in Rome, but France is starting to lose its Catholic heritage, same with Denmark. Is the Church winding down? I realize that it’s growing in Africa and the Church has a large presence in South and Latin America. But it still worries that the Church is fading in many parts of the world. Is anyone else worried about this? Or am I just paranoid?
A
_Abyssinia
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