Is the concept of God self-contradictory?

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tonyrey said:
If so why?
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I think the concept of God can be counterintuitive and in some cases can appear contradictory.

The strongest argument (i can’t believe nobody has brought it up yet!!😃) i have ever come across against the Christian metaphysical definition of God is the idea that if creatures have true freewill and potentiality, then Gods knowledge is caused into reality and thus has potentiality, which would seem to contradict the fact that Gods knowledge and being absolutely exists independently of creatures and is not dependent on human actions. This appears to be a square-triangle kind of contradiction since God’s existence and his knowledge are one in their actuality.

This can be countered in two ways.
  1. Gods eternally knows what he eternally wills it. Thus all potential truth is eternally present to Gods knowledge insofar as God exists outside of time. Its not something that God ever begins to know or learn. Also, while he gives creatures freewill, it is God that eternally manifests the entire reality in which the potentiality of freewill takes place. So while a creature may will something, the effect cannot be real without God and neither the being that is willing. Thus God is the existential cause of all effects, including every thought and process in our brains. However, this solution creates difficulty in understanding how beings can be free, if God is causing the reality of all potential events.
  2. A humble person will realize that there is a possibility that there is something about Gods nature that we cannot understand and may in fact appear contradictory when it is not. To counter the claim that we are pleading ignorance in a case where there is clearly a contradiction, we can simply point out that such a being like God would have to exist in-order for there to be any reality at all, and what ever difficulties we have in understanding how freewill and omniscience can co-exist is besides the point and is purely an epistemological limitation on our part as creatures.
This is to say that if God is necessary for existence itself, then what ever attributes follow from that necessity is a given brute fact despite any difficulty or apparent contradiction.
 
MindOverMatter2 said:
I think the concept of God can be counterintuitive and in some cases can appear contradictory.

The strongest argument (i can’t believe nobody has brought it up yet!!😃) i have ever come across against the Christian metaphysical definition of God is the idea that if creatures have true freewill and potentiality, then Gods knowledge is caused into reality and thus has potentiality, which would seem to contradict the fact that Gods knowledge and being absolutely exists independently of creatures and is not dependent on human actions. This appears to be a square-triangle kind of contradiction since God’s existence and his knowledge are one in their actuality.

This can be countered in two ways.
  1. Gods eternally knows what he eternally wills it. Thus all potential truth is eternally present to Gods knowledge insofar as God exists outside of time. Its not something that God ever begins to know or learn. Also, while he gives creatures freewill, it is God that eternally manifests the entire reality in which the potentiality of freewill takes place. So while a creature may will something, the effect cannot be real without God and neither the being that is willing. Thus God is the existential cause of all effects, including every thought and process in our brains. However, this solution creates difficulty in understanding how beings can be free, if God is causing the reality of all potential events.
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God is Causa Sui but that doesn’t preclude His freedom or prevent Him from creating other beings in His image and likeness. We can’t understand the power to choose anyway but we do know it is an essential attribute of personhood. It seems unreasonable to deny that the Creator can share His power with others.
  1. A humble person will realize that there is a possibility that there is something about Gods nature that we cannot understand and may in fact appear contradictory when it is not. To counter the claim that we are pleading ignorance in a case where there is clearly a contradiction, we can simply point out that such a being like God would have to exist in-order for there to be any reality at all, and what ever difficulties we have in understanding how freewill and omniscience can co-exist is besides the point and is purely an epistemological limitation on our part as creatures.
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This is to say that if God is necessary for existence itself, then what ever attributes follow from that necessity is a given brute fact despite any difficulty or apparent contradiction.
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I hadn’t read that when I replied to your first point but we reach the same conclusion! 🙂
 
I think that just based on a few things such as the universe needing a first ever moment and therefore a first cause, the intelligence in nature needing an Intelligent Designer, and the morals that are universal in scope needing a moral lawgiver are reasons to believe that God is a logical concept. And since a self-contradictory thing cannot exist in nature, God then is by nature, and by definition, not self-contradictory but rather is logically necessary.
 
shoe said:
I think that just based on a few things such as the universe needing a first ever moment and therefore a first cause, the intelligence in nature needing an Intelligent Designer, and the morals that are universal in scope needing a moral lawgiver are reasons to believe that God is a logical concept. And since a self-contradictory thing cannot exist in nature, God then is by nature, and by definition, not self-contradictory but rather is logically necessary.
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The concept of God is certainly not self-contradictory but logical necessity cannot lead to ontological necessity. Even though the probability that God doesn’t exist is negligible it is still a theoretical possibility. All our knowledge - except our inner experience - is based on inference and induction which do not lead to infallible conclusions like logical or mathematical proofs.
 
tonyrey said:
The evil in the world is due to** human** fallibility. 🙂
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Why does God permit human falibility in the world? If he is all powerful he could have made them perfect.🤷

Is this not contradictory?
 
MindOverMatter2 said:
Why does God permit human falibility in the world? If he is all powerful he could have made them perfect.🤷

Is this not contradictory?
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No. Only God is perfect in every respect. Omnipotence doesn’t entail inconsistency.
 
tonyrey said:
No. Only God is perfect in every respect. Omnipotence doesn’t entail inconsistency.
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But heaven is a place where it is impossible to sin.:confused:

If human beings in heaven are perfect because of Gods perfect will, then why couldn’t God just make a perfect heaven to begin with?🤷
 
MindOverMatter2 said:
Why does God permit human falibility in the world? If he is all powerful he could have made them perfect.🤷

Is this not contradictory?
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He did;only with free will. You know the story from there. If what you mean by perfect is the inability to sin then He would have had to make us Him.
 
teachccd said:
He did;only with free will. You know the story from there. If what you mean by perfect is the inability to sin then He would have had to make us Him.
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Why can’t he make us him?🤷 If he can’t, then he is not all powerful.
 
MindOverMatter2 said:
But heaven is a place where it is impossible to sin.:confused:

If human beings in heaven are perfect because of Gods perfect will, then why couldn’t God just make a perfect heaven to begin with?🤷
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Because heaven isn’t inhabited by zombies! Human beings in heaven are perfect because God wants them to be perfect and gives them the power to become perfect but becoming perfect entails co-operating with God. Love is not something that can be created on behalf of a person… We have to respond to His invitation. "If you love Me… "
 
tonyrey said:
Because heaven isn’t inhabited by zombies! Human beings in heaven are perfect because God wants them to be perfect and gives them the power to become perfect but becoming perfect entails co-operating with God. Love is not something that can be created on behalf of a person… We have to respond to His invitation. "If you love Me… "
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Why is co-operation so important? Why would anybody want to go to hell?🤷 (Disclaimer: I am pretending to be an atheist by the way, i already know the answers to my questions. Just play along for fun)
 
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