“Concept” implies something formed into mind. Not every one has formed concepts of God that are compatible with the concepts that others have formed. Trying to merge certain concepts can result in something self contradicting. And a concept that a specific person holds could be self contradicting.
Tony:
It is hardly surprising that the Creator of the universe is not present in everything in the same way as physical objects. Where do you locate truth?I’ve heard some say the conjunction of the properties ‘immaterial’ and ‘omnipresence’ results in a contradiction. If God is immaterial, then he occupies no space. i.e., God isn’t anywhere. If God is omnipresent, then he is present everywhere. Therefore, to be immaterial and omnipresent is to both be nowhere and everywhere. But, I don’t put too much stock in this
How about Love? That should lead to some interesting reactions…
Not so. The operative word is not “space,” rather, it is “place.” Place is best defined as the innermost surface of a surrounding body. To say that God holds no place is entirely correct. Why? Because only matter, i.e., that which is by its nature finite, will ever find itself surrounded.I’ve heard some say the conjunction of the properties ‘immaterial’ and ‘omnipresence’ results in a contradiction. If God is immaterial, then he occupies no space. i.e., God isn’t anywhere. If God is omnipresent, then he is present everywhere. Therefore, to be immaterial and omnipresent is to both be nowhere and everywhere. But, I don’t put too much stock in this
Of all of God’s attributes, that one is by far the most poignant!How about Love? That should lead to some interesting reactions…
(Your Disclaimer is discounted… because it is unnecessary.Why is co-operation so important? Why would anybody want to go to hell?(Disclaimer: I am pretending to be an atheist by the way, i already know the answers to my questions. Just play along for fun)
The onus is on you to produce an allegedly self-contradictory concept that can be discussed.
Tony:(Your Disclaimer is discounted… because it is unnecessary.
Since no one would opt for undiluted misery hell must have its compensations. To be absolutely independent and master of one’s own destiny is the greatest temptation of all. We can already see how the lust for power in this world makes people commit diabolical crimes. The damned are in hell because of their pride and unwillingness to recognise and submit to a higher authority. They choose of their own free will to live for themselves, succumb to the lust for power and delight in being masters of their own destiny. They exist in “splendid” isolation because that is the only way in which they can express themselves with unrivalled freedom from “interference”. They derive great pleasure from rejecting the sovereignty of God and worshipping themselves but their pleasure brings them torment because they are never satisfied. Their obsession with themselves makes them incapable of escaping from themselves and sharing their life with others. The more freedom they have the more they want. The vicious spiral of selfishness and evil leads to a form of insanity in which they become incapable of loving anyone but themselves.
The only way in which the damned could escape from hell is to identify themselves with others. Only then would they cease to be slaves to themselves. The truth makes us free - and the truth is that we did not create ourselves. We are liberated by adoring our Creator in heaven, loving His children on earth… and having compassion for those in hell…
Ever thought of writing a book on the subject?(Your Disclaimer is discounted… because it is unnecessary.
Since no one would opt for undiluted misery hell must have its compensations. To be absolutely independent and master of one’s own destiny is the greatest temptation of all. We can already see how the lust for power in this world makes people commit diabolical crimes. The damned are in hell because of their pride and unwillingness to recognise and submit to a higher authority. They choose of their own free will to live for themselves, succumb to the lust for power and delight in being masters of their own destiny. They exist in “splendid” isolation because that is the only way in which they can express themselves with unrivalled freedom from “interference”. They derive great pleasure from rejecting the sovereignty of God and worshipping themselves but their pleasure brings them torment because they are never satisfied. Their obsession with themselves makes them incapable of escaping from themselves and sharing their life with others. The more freedom they have the more they want. The vicious spiral of selfishness and evil leads to a form of insanity in which they become incapable of loving anyone but themselves.
The only way in which the damned could escape from hell is to identify themselves with others. Only then would they cease to be slaves to themselves. The truth makes us free - and the truth is that we did not create ourselves. We are liberated by adoring our Creator in heaven, loving His children on earth… and having compassion for those in hell…
Perhaps I should have said that “if” God does exist, then He alone holds the ontological necessity of Being, since God by definition is the logical necessity. But on the other hand, if God does not exist, then it is probably ontologically beyond the bounds of possibility either that He may exist in the here and now or that He may come into existence later, because by definition God is not contingent upon anything. So, if God’s existence is at all possible, then His existence cannot be just barely possible; it must be totally possible. Therefore, God’s existence is not impossible, which is to say, God is logically necessary.
I think there is a possible self-contradiction in the idea that God is “pure being” or “pure act.” What is “pure being” w/o any qualities? It may as well be nothingness.
I’ve spent too much time on it already without plunging further into the depths of depravity.
Here are a few more ideas on the subject :
There is always a price to pay for everything we are and possess. In hell the enjoyment of absolute independence is poisoned by a sense of isolation and inadequacy. To worship oneself is a form of insanity because no one except God is perfect. The Greek concept of Nemesis is still valid: our vices incur their own punishment. Self-love ultimately leads to self-loathing but it is like drug addiction: a fatal flaw in spite of the immense pleasure and satisfaction it gives - for a while…
He does! God’s infinite love is not the obstacle but Satan’s decisions to love himself more than God. It would be unjust if Satan were deprived of his free will on account of the finite choices he has made and presumably is making. A creature’s eternal destiny is never irrevocably determined by God because He respects our power of self-determination and knows our capacity for love can never be entirely obliterated. It is a mistake to think we are fossilised in the afterlife and incapable of making decisions - even in hell!
Pure Being is the antithesis of nothingness because it is dynamic. “Pure Love” is a more meaningful term because “Being” is an abstraction which conveys the false impression you have received.
But, God is more than Love, right? Else, what is there to love?Pure Being is the antithesis of nothingness because it is dynamic. “Pure Love” is a more meaningful term because “Being” is an abstraction which conveys the false impression you have received.
