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Lilsheep88
Guest
The 5th mystery of the Glorious rosary
Its things like these that challenge my persona faith
Its things like these that challenge my persona faith
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DavidFilmer
Guest
The “woman” is obviously Mary. She is wearing a crown, so there was obviously a “coronation” (which is defined as “the act or ceremony of crowning a king, queen, or other sovereign” per dictionary.com).
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Lilsheep88
Guest
But thats really vague… and theres no consensus that that was actually Mary. Some people say that the woman is a symbol for Israel… I just want something direct
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DavidFilmer
Guest
The woman IS a symbol for Israel - a Jewish maiden who gives birth to the Jewish Messiah. The “twelve stars” in her crown represent the Twelve Tribes of Israel - which represent the entirety of God’s people (which, in Christian doctrine, means all Christians). Satan (through Herod) sought to kill the child, but the child was preserved, and the woman fled to a place (Egypt) which God prepared for her. You call THAT “*really *vague?” Maybe “somewhat” vague, but “really” vague??? Seriously???
What does that mean? Do you mean you want us to quote a passage in Revelation that specifically contains the name, “Mary” and the term “coronation” in the same passage? Sorry, no can do.
But you asked about the Coronation. This “woman” (whoever she is) was obviously coronated (crowned). What OTHER woman might this possibly or hypothetically refer to?
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StrawberryJam
Guest
The very word faith means you don’t need anything like facts to get in the way to back it up. Why is your faith being troubled over this?
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Lilsheep88
Guest
Sorry. I know that its not good to question things but I am just curious you know.
Also… is there biblical basis for the assumption as well?
Also… is there biblical basis for the assumption as well?
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Trevor_Stamm
Guest
And it needs to be spelled out in black and white from Sacred Scripture, why?
And the interpretation that the woman is Isreal is a poor argument when everything else in that account is taken literal such as the child is Christ and the dragon is Satan yet when it comes to the woman, it’s representation of Isreal to anti-Marian folks.
Another argument for her royal position is the fact that Davidic kings crowned their mothers as the queen mother.
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Ancient1
Guest
Who cares if it’s in the Bible?
It’s our Faith.
Our Faith encompasses much more than the Bible, as revealed to Holy Mother Church by God. The Church is the only institution on earth that is Divine, founded by the Son of God. I’d tend to believe it, and not get into these petty protestant-style debates.
These Marian “discussions” are not theology, not profound. It’s merely trying to disprove something like a young child arguing the earth must be flat because he can see so for himself.
It’s our Faith.
Our Faith encompasses much more than the Bible, as revealed to Holy Mother Church by God. The Church is the only institution on earth that is Divine, founded by the Son of God. I’d tend to believe it, and not get into these petty protestant-style debates.
These Marian “discussions” are not theology, not profound. It’s merely trying to disprove something like a young child arguing the earth must be flat because he can see so for himself.
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StrawberryJam
Guest
Don’t be sorry. It is good to question things. You are curious because you have questions. They need to be resolved.
Regarding the assumption, I do believe I read some time back something from Scott Hahn on that matter. Please look him up. He walks you through it very step by step and gives you a picture to look at and think about. I am sure there are many others who have done so, but he has taken a deep look at it from the eyes of a non catholic believer who converted to the Catholic Church.
It sounds from what you have asked that you need biblical conformation for everything,.
To me, as an outsider, it sounds like you have a lack of trust with the Church itself.
Why do you doubt the Catholic Church?
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Ancient1
Guest
P.S. Please, folks, do get this straight. According to Standard English usage, the word Bible is always capitalized. Always. This is not a religion thing, it’s basic proper English. Just like the word Koran is always capitalized. Now I bet you won’t forget. Strange, eh?
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StrawberryJam
Guest
Catholics do not worship the Bible.
Some do.
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Khalid
Guest
Yes, in the Book of Revelation: the woman crowned with twelve stars.
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Khalid
Guest
Bible is always capitalized, but “biblical” is not, when a proper noun is made adjectival.
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ora_pro_nobis
Guest
There is no direct quote from the Bible that refers to Our Lady’s coronation as Queen of Heaven, but if it helps, my Rosary booklet uses a quote from Judith: “Thou art the glory of Jerusalem, the honour of thy people… The hand of the Lord hath strengthened thee and therefore thou shalt be blessed forever”
I know it actually refers to Judith, but if Our lady could quote from the Psalms as she did in the Magnificat, then surely we can quote from the Bible in honour of her?
I know it actually refers to Judith, but if Our lady could quote from the Psalms as she did in the Magnificat, then surely we can quote from the Bible in honour of her?
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Cairisti
Guest
As far as the Assumption, well Enoch and Elisha were both assummed into heaven in the OT. Why wouldn’t Mary be as well?
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TheDoctor
Guest
I notice in your signature line that you mention praying for the souls in purgatory, yet “purgatory” is never mentioned in the Bible. You also ask us to pray the Rosary yet that is not in the Bible either.
My point is that we are a people of the Bible and of Sacred Tradition. Not everything we believe is spelled out verbatium in the Bible but that does not lessen the teaching on purgatory nor the value of the prayers of the Rosary.
The assumption per se is not found in the Bible but is a part of Sacred Tradition. As such, it is required to be believed of all the faithful. And in the same way that references and nuiances to the assumption in the Bible were developed into the doctrine of the Assumption so references in Revelation were develped into the coronation.
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Khalid
Guest
Everyone claimed to have relics of every apostle and saint, female included. No one claimed to have relics of Mary. A strong circumstantial evidence.As far as the Assumption, well Enoch and Elisha were both assummed into heaven in the OT. Why wouldn’t Mary be as well?
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Mberg3
Guest
I also like to keep in mind the verse immediately before Revelations 12
“19 Then God’s temple in heaven was opened, and within his temple was seen the ark of his covenant. And there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, an earthquake and a severe hailstorm.
Revelation 12
The Woman and the Dragon
1 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2 She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. 3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. 4 Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born. 5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.”[c]”
As you can see, right before the woman appeared, the ark of the covenant appeared. As almost everyone has agreed with in Christian history, Jesus was the Word made flesh. In the Old Testament the Word was “held” in the ark of the covenant. It has been shown how Mary is the new Ark of the Word incarnate. This draws a further parallel to the woman’s coronation and to Mary.
“19 Then God’s temple in heaven was opened, and within his temple was seen the ark of his covenant. And there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, an earthquake and a severe hailstorm.
Revelation 12
The Woman and the Dragon
1 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2 She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. 3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. 4 Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born. 5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.”[c]”
As you can see, right before the woman appeared, the ark of the covenant appeared. As almost everyone has agreed with in Christian history, Jesus was the Word made flesh. In the Old Testament the Word was “held” in the ark of the covenant. It has been shown how Mary is the new Ark of the Word incarnate. This draws a further parallel to the woman’s coronation and to Mary.
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sw85
Guest
There is no direct Biblical testament to the coronation of Mary, to my knowledge.
There is indirect testimony, such as has been offered (the passage from Revelation), and such as has been contradicted only by people with no authority to interpret Scripture. Likewise, there is the fact that the Church has taught this and is protected from error by the Holy Spirit; that God’s love for us is such that He would not allow us to fall into error.
There is also the direct and personal revelation of Mary herself, repeatedly throughout the ages.
There is the simple fact that Christ is king, and that a king’s mother is always queen.
And so on.
This is true, and very good. There is more to our faith than what’s in the Bible.
This is far from true. Faith is the adherence of the will to truth, and truths are necessarily discovered either through the operations of reason or revelation.
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Merrin
Guest
As in many passages of Sacred Scripture, there can be many levels of meaning. It is not always an ‘either/or’ situation. Sometimes it is ‘both/and’. This appears to be one of those situations.
The woman in Revelation 12 has been traditionally interpreted as being both the Blessed Virgin and Israel and the Church.
From Navarre:
The woman has been interpreted ever since the time of the Fathers of the Church as referring to the ancient people of Israel, or the Church of Jesus Christ, or the Blessed Virgin. The text supports all of these interpretations, but in none do all the details fit.
The woman can stand for the people of Israel, for it is from that people that the Messiah comes, and Isaiah compares Israel to “a woman with child, who writhes and cries out in pangs, when she is near her time”.
She can also stand for the Church, whose children strive to overcome evil and bear witness to Jesus Christ. Following this interpretation, St. Gregory wrote: “The sun stands for the light of truth, and the moon for the transitoriness of temporal things; the holy Church is clothed like the sun because she is protected by the splendor of supernatural truth, and she has the moon under her feet because she is above all earthly things.”. (Moralia, 34,12)
The passage can also refer to the Virgin Mary, because it was she who truly and historically gave birth to the Messiah, Jesus Christ our Lord. St. Bernard comments: “The sun contains permanent color and splendor; whereas the moon’s brightness is unpredictable and changeable, for it never stays the same. It is quite right, then, for Mary to be depicted as clothed with the sun, for she entered the profundity of divine wisdom much further than one can possibly conceive”. (De B. Virgine, 2)
The woman can stand for the people of Israel, for it is from that people that the Messiah comes, and Isaiah compares Israel to “a woman with child, who writhes and cries out in pangs, when she is near her time”.
She can also stand for the Church, whose children strive to overcome evil and bear witness to Jesus Christ. Following this interpretation, St. Gregory wrote: “The sun stands for the light of truth, and the moon for the transitoriness of temporal things; the holy Church is clothed like the sun because she is protected by the splendor of supernatural truth, and she has the moon under her feet because she is above all earthly things.”. (Moralia, 34,12)
The passage can also refer to the Virgin Mary, because it was she who truly and historically gave birth to the Messiah, Jesus Christ our Lord. St. Bernard comments: “The sun contains permanent color and splendor; whereas the moon’s brightness is unpredictable and changeable, for it never stays the same. It is quite right, then, for Mary to be depicted as clothed with the sun, for she entered the profundity of divine wisdom much further than one can possibly conceive”. (De B. Virgine, 2)
It essentially can be said that the woman in Revelation 12 with the crown is in fact the Blessed Virgin Mary. The saints in heaven have all been crowned. So it seems without a doubt that the Mother of God and Queen of Angels has been crowned as well, but in a much more glorious and honorable way.
*“Be thou faithful until death: and I will give thee the crown of life.” Apocalypse 2:10
“And when the prince of pastors shall appear, you shall receive a never fading crown of glory.” 1 Peter 5:4
“As to the rest, there is laid up for me a crown of justice, which the Lord the just judge will render to me in that day: and not only to me, but to them also that love his coming.” 2 Timothy 4:8
“Blessed is the man that endureth temptation; for when he hath been proved, he shall receive a crown of life, which God hath promised to them that love him.” James 1:12
*“And when the prince of pastors shall appear, you shall receive a never fading crown of glory.” 1 Peter 5:4
“As to the rest, there is laid up for me a crown of justice, which the Lord the just judge will render to me in that day: and not only to me, but to them also that love his coming.” 2 Timothy 4:8
“Blessed is the man that endureth temptation; for when he hath been proved, he shall receive a crown of life, which God hath promised to them that love him.” James 1:12
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