U
user1234
Guest
I have heard that if a host looses the appreance of bread, it is no longer the Body of Christ. does this mean that a tiny particle (which would no longer appear to be bread) isn’t consecrated anymore?
- Status
L
Lily_Bernans
Guest
The tiniest crumb of a consecrated Host contains the whole of Christ and should be treated with the utmost dignity and respect.
U
user1234
Guest
Ok, but a particle or the host hardly has the appearance of bread, so if the Eucharist loses the appearance of bread, is it still consecrated?
E
E_7
Guest
Even then microscopic bread crumb is the whole body and blood of Jesus. This is why I do not dare to take Him in my hands. You never know if a microscopic crumb can fall off your hands (meaning letting Christ fall on the floor). I just can’t.
U
user1234
Guest
So even if the host doesn’t still have the appearance of bread it is still the True Presence?
1
1ke
Guest
A tiny particle of ‘something’ you come across that cannot be distinguished as bread is certainly not the Eucharist.
A fragment of the Eucharist is still the Eucharist, the traditional teaching is that whether it is still distinguishable as bread (or wine).
Small particles/crumbs on the corporal and sacred vessels are treated with the dignity of the Eucharist, hence the procedures for purifying vessels and linens.
If you are in doubt, you can place the fragment in question in water until it has dissolved, and then pour the water into the sacrarium or into the ground just as you would a corrupted host or precious blood.
Read here for more info:
jimmyakin.com/2005/10/when_the_real_p.html
E
E_7
Guest
Yes, it is still consecrated. The bread can look like a piece of real bread like those of the Eastern Rite or like a crumb and it is still consecrated. The priest can ran out of consecrated hosts and divide it into pieces for the rest of the people in line.
1
1ke
Guest
No.
But in the cases of tiny particles* on the corporal, altar linens, and sacred vessels*, we *treat *them with the dignity of the Eucharist through our purification rituals.
1
1ke
Guest
That isn’t what the OP is asking. The OP isn’t asking about breaking the host into several pieces that are still distinguishable as the host. The OP is talking about tiny particles, visible or invisible to the naked eye, that are not clearly distinguishable as bread.
Traditional Church teaching on tiny particles that can no longer be distinguished as bread is that they cease to be the Eucharist. See the Summa, or the link I also provided above.
1
1ke
Guest
For clarification, the Eucharist is never “deconsecrated”.
Rather, the Eucharistic Presence remains “as long as the Eucharist species subsist”.
Rather, the Eucharistic Presence remains “as long as the Eucharist species subsist”.
U
user1234
Guest
Ok. Does this mean if I let the Eucharist dissolve in my mouth, and then swallow it, it isn’t the real presence, and I haven’t received the sacrament?
D
Don_Ruggero
Guest
The moment of contact by the matter of the sacrament is the moment of grace. The moment the Host has contact with your tongue is the moment of receiving the sacrament, in the case of the Eucharist.
The Real Presence perdures as long as the species perdures. Once it is completely dissolved, the sacramental presence is no longer abiding with you. The number of minutes this takes to occur is variable.
T
Tarpeian_Rock
Guest
Which is why, in the case of a Host that, say, is vomited up or despoiled in some other way in church, it is placed in a glass of water so that the species dissolves and the Presence no longer abides.
1
1ke
Guest
The paten is a sacred vessel. And it is purified with the chalice and ciborium. Collectively these are “sacred vessels”.
G
Gorgias
Guest
"pietrocontolini:
And, of course, even though the ‘sacramental presence no longer abides’, the grace of the sacrament does. So, once you’ve received the Eucharist, you continue to have that grace abiding in you!
G
Gorgias
Guest
Mind if I quibble?
You seem to be saying that “tiny particles of the Eucharist” – tiny but still visible – are no longer Eucharist, but are still treated with respect. I would argue that “tiny particles of the Eucharist” – on the corporal or sacred vessels or wherever – still do have the “appearance of bread”. That is, when I see a jar of bread crumbs in my pantry, I still recognize them as bread, even if they don’t form a loaf.
So, it’s not a matter of saying “those crumbs on the paten aren’t really Eucharist any more, but I’ll still treat them with dignity.” Rather, it’s a matter of saying, “I can see these crumbs which have the appearance of bread crumbs, and therefore, they’re still the Eucharist. Therefore, I must treat them as I’d treat any (whole) host!”
P
ProVobis
Guest
IMO, you have presented a valid argument.
I would only add that whether the particles can be seen or not, depending on one’s vision I suppose, they can be measured.
- Status