Is The Evangelical Jesus same with The Catholic Jesus?

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I want to challenge both Evangelicals (I am not sure if Evangelicals are truly and fully Protestants, never mind if they are Christians) and Catholics…

We all know that Evangelical Jesus WAS NOT BORN of the SAME and ONE mother with Roman Catholic Jesus, although their mothers share the same name; Mary… It doesn’t take a theologian to know that The Evangelical Jesus’ mother IS NOT and HAVE NEVER BEEN The Mother of God! She is the mother of just a human being, or at best she is just and only the mother of His human nature but never His Divine nature. Because God can not have a mother…

At this point it becomes fuzzy and unclear if Evangelicals really and sincerely believe that His human and divine natures have perfectly and really united in His human body?? Do they sincerely believe that Jesus’ Divinity really and truly INCARNATED in Mary’s womb ?? (“The Word became flesh” John 1:14)

If what was born of Mary was just a HUMAN NATURE, howcome that HUMAN NATURE alone can possibly save us from our sins on the cross?? No matter how much righteous he was, can the death of “just a human being” on the cross is worthy enough to SAVE all humanity from his sins?? (Are Evangelicals really SAVED by the way??)

See ?? We are not even quite sure if Evangelical Jesus qualifies enough to be A Saviour… If He is, then which one ?? The Human Nature One?? Or the Divine One (who never had a mother since He doesn’t need one) ??

Furthermore Evangelical Jesus -with one side of his mouth- says “This Is My Body and This Is My Blood”, while with the other side of his mouth he says “Not really so !!”… And you can never make sure what on earth he really mean while he is saying “You have to be born of WATER and SPIRIT.”

Unlike Evangelical Jesus, Roman Catholic Jesus is true to His Words. He means what He says, and He says what He really means… However Evangelical Jesus is not so…

Therefore;

*Evangelical Jesus’ mother IS NOT the MOTHER of GOD…

*We are not quite sure if HUMAN and DIVINE natures of Evangelical Jesus is truly unified in ONE PERSON…

*Evangelical Jesus is quite confused about what he says and what he means…

*Furthermore Evangelical Jesus’ mother WAS NOT IMMACULATELY CONCEIVED…

And if so how in heavens are we ever able to make sure his mother didn’t pass her sinful nature on her HUMAN NATURE baby ??

We hope that Evangelical Jesus didn’t inherit the ORIGINAL SIN from his mother.

If he didn’t, howcome we say that he was really incarnated without inheriting from his mother from whom he was supposed to be incarnated ??

What about you my friend ??

Who do you think that Jesus is ??

Can Roman Catholic Jesus and Evangelical Jesus possibly be the same Divine Person ??

If not, who do you think that this Evangelical Jesus is ??

And what kind of spirit can ever preach an Evangelical Jesus ??

And whose spirit is that ??

And how can you recognize that spirit ??

Go ahead and read I John 4:2-3 and find out what kind of a spirit is an evangelical spirit…
 
Yes. He is one in the same. There only one LORD. I think you should focus on what unites Christians rather than what divides us. We worship the same Lord and Savior Jesus Christ whether we are Catholic or Evangelical. why spread division within the greater body of Christ?? As a Catholic I know of many evangelicals who are very devoted to Christ, as I know many Catholics who are as well. We recognize them by the Love they express to God and our fellow brothers and sisters in the Lord. I sometimes visit thier church, and find though I don’t agree with every doctrine, that I learn quite a bit from the spirited preaching at thier services and am able to more deeply appreciate the Catholic faith in doing so - indeed Catholics do believe in more things - such as Mary, and that is a good thing - after all Mary did say YES to God and is our Mother as Jesus said in one of His last words on the cross, but even still evangelicals have something Catholics don’t always have (though many do). they pray before meals, they fight for thier faith, they express it in public, they attend small groups and bible studies to learn more about the faith - and they tell people about thier faith whenever chance they get. These are good thing, that we Catholics could learn to do more - I am not saying we don’t - after all we have the sacraments, but they have same Jesus in a different way - they insist that everyone who calls oneself a Christian, have a deep and convicting belief in Jesus as Lord and Savior (as most Catholics do as well - and I would submit as any Christian who hopes to get to heaven must have) - for without His cross - without his blood in our place, the great chasm between ourselves and a Holy God is far too great for any mere human to cross - focus on the fact that evangelicals and Catholics share this same belief - we just disagree with them if acceptance of the free gift happens at a moment in time, ushering in a life which is filled with the Love of God in a profound way, or a lifetime of perserverance, struggling with our selfish desires and sinful ways to be able to stand before our Lord and have Him say - YES I truly knew you - welcome Home my Child - you walked the talk - so you have truly accepted Me.
 
JLM316 said:
Yes. He is one in the same. There only one LORD. I think you should focus on what unites Christians rather than what divides us. We worship the same Lord and Savior Jesus Christ whether we are Catholic or Evangelical. why spread division within the greater body of Christ?? As a Catholic I know of many evangelicals who are very devoted to Christ, as I know many Catholics who are as well. We recognize them by the Love they express to God and our fellow brothers and sisters in the Lord. I sometimes visit thier church, and find though I don’t agree with every doctrine, that I learn quite a bit from the spirited preaching at thier services and am able to more deeply appreciate the Catholic faith in doing so - indeed Catholics do believe in more things - such as Mary, and that is a good thing - after all Mary did say YES to God and is our Mother as Jesus said in one of His last words on the cross, but even still evangelicals have something Catholics don’t always have (though many do). they pray before meals, they fight for thier faith, they express it in public, they attend small groups and bible studies to learn more about the faith - and they tell people about thier faith whenever chance they get. These are good thing, that we Catholics could learn to do more - I am not saying we don’t - after all we have the sacraments, but they have same Jesus in a different way - they insist that everyone who calls oneself a Christian, have a deep and convicting belief in Jesus as Lord and Savior (as most Catholics do as well - and I would submit as any Christian who hopes to get to heaven must have) - for without His cross - without his blood in our place, the great chasm between ourselves and a Holy God is far too great for any mere human to cross - focus on the fact that evangelicals and Catholics share this same belief - we just disagree with them if acceptance of the free gift happens at a moment in time, ushering in a life which is filled with the Love of God in a profound way, or a lifetime of perserverance, struggling with our selfish desires and sinful ways to be able to stand before our Lord and have Him say - YES I truly knew you - welcome Home my Child - you walked the talk - so you have truly accepted Me.
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I agree.

I knew the same Jesus as an Evangelical as I now know as a Catholic.
 
One and the same, absolutely.

I would also say that Evangelicals do believe that Christ was one person with both a divine and human nature. They’re just not comfortable with the title “Mother of God,” because it implies, in their mind, that Mary is mother of God the Father as well.
And if so how in heavens are we ever able to make sure his mother didn’t pass her sinful nature on her HUMAN NATURE baby ??
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I’m not at all anti-Catholic (I’m even in RCIA now! 🙂 ), but I’ve always found this argument to be a bit odd. Mary’s parents sinned, and yet Catholics say Mary did not inherit their sinful nature. If Mary could be born sinless from sinful parents, could this not apply to Christ also? Anyway, there’s far more to the doctrine than this argument, and I’m not going to hijack the thread…
Who do you think that Jesus is ??
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God the Son, fully man and fully God. The Messiah. The Savior of the World, etc…
Can Roman Catholic Jesus and Evangelical Jesus possibly be the same Divine Person ??
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Yes, just not as fully understood by one party.
And what kind of spirit can ever preach an Evangelical Jesus ??
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Well, Jesus was evangelical, in that he preached the good news. “Evangelical” is not a bad word.
And whose spirit is that ??
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Let’s see where you’re going with this…
And how can you recognize that spirit ??
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Closer…
Go ahead and read I John 4:2-3 and find out what kind of a spirit is an evangelical spirit…
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Aha! Here it is!
1 John 4:2-3 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit which confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit which does not confess Jesus is not of God. This is the spirit of antichrist, of which you heard that it was coming, and now it is in the world already. (RSV-CE)
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Well, I don’t know any Evangelicals who would disagree with this verse. That was a close one! For a second there, I thought you were saying Evangelicals were preaching with the spirit of the antichrist! :eek:
 
Marko Pasa,

I will join the first respondent in suggesting that we focus on what unites us. I was a member of the Southern Baptist Church for some years a decade ago, and in college I attended two other Southern Baptist churches although I did not formally join at that time. The differences between Evangelicals and Catholics are much, much less than they might appear at first glance. For example, we both believe that Jesus died on the cross for our salvation; we both believe that we are saved by grace through faith; we both believe that we need to show the fruits of grace in our lives; we both believe that the Bible is the Word of God, without error when properly interpreted; and the list goes on and on.

There was only one Jesus Who is the Son of God and Who died for our sins; to say that Evangelicals and Catholics worship different “Jesuses” is like saying that Catholics and Muslims worship different Gods. They may be a little confused about some of the finer points, but there is only one God and there is only one Jesus, Son of God.
  • Liberian
 
carol_marie said:
I agree.

I knew the same Jesus as an Evangelical as I now know as a Catholic.
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So do I. I just know Him better. He’s also introduced me to His Mother (who in turn has taught me a lot about her Son) and the rest of my family (the Church triumphant, the Church suffering, and the Church millitant.)
 
marko_pasa said:
I want to challenge both Evangelicals (I am not sure if Evangelicals are truly and fully Protestants, never mind if they are Christians) and Catholics…
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Of course Evangelicals are both Protestants and Christians. What do you mean when you say “evangelicals” anyway? By definition evangelicals believe in the Apostles’ Creed.
We all know that Evangelical Jesus WAS NOT BORN of the SAME and ONE mother with Roman Catholic Jesus,
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Nonsense. We don’t know anything of the sort. In fact we know the exact opposite.

If you’re engaging in some sort of tongue-in-cheek anti-Chick spoof, that’s OK, but then you shouldn’t be using the word “evangelical.”
It doesn’t take a theologian to know that The Evangelical Jesus’ mother IS NOT and HAVE NEVER BEEN The Mother of God!
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Well no, it doesn’t take a theologian to make silly mistakes. Hopefully being a theologian would help prevent you from making this mistake.

Of course the mother of the “evangelical Jesus” is the Mother of God.

What “evangelicals” have you been talking to?
She is the mother of just a human being,
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That is not an evangelical belief.
or at best she is just and only the mother of His human nature but never His Divine nature.
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There are confused, ill-informed evangelicals who say this.

At any rate, the basic fallacy here is the idea that if people believe mistaken things about Jesus or Mary or God or whatever, they are believing in a different Jesus or Mary or God. (That’s why there are silly people who say that Muslims worship a different God from Christians–some Catholics say this in defiance of the teaching of their own Church!)

There’s only one Jesus.

Furthermore, evangelicals are not as Nestorian as you are claiming. Arguably Protestants do separate Jesus’ humanity from His divinity too much. But orthodox Christology is tricky, and there’s no denying that evangelical Protestants believe firmly that Jesus is both human and divine, and that both natures are united to the one Person.

Edwin
 
When my wife married me, she did not know me as well as she does now, after 20 years. However, she really did marry the real me. Likewise, people can become genuine Christians while not perfectly understanding the nature of Jesus, Mary, the Church, etc. People can have wrong and even heretical views for a while in their minds (for example, believing that Mary gave birth to Jesus’ human nature but not His divine nature, a form of Nestorianism) and still accept the real Jesus in their hearts. The Holy Spirit will then guide those people, if they are open, into a better understanding, as Jesus said He would.

Regarding the term Mother of God: Sometimes this helps a Protestant (at least it helped me)–
According to John chapter 1, Jesus is the Word. The Word is God. Therefore, Jesus is God.

Mary is the mother of Jesus. However, as we’ve just seen, Jesus is God. Therefore, Mary is the Mother of God.
 
Reading back over these posts, I realized I basically said the same thing as Contarini, above. So just take this as a vote for Contarini!
 
JLM316 said:
Yes. He is one in the same. There only one LORD. I think you should focus on what unites Christians rather than what divides us. We worship the same Lord and Savior Jesus Christ whether we are Catholic or Evangelical. why spread division within the greater body of Christ?? As a Catholic I know of many evangelicals who are very devoted to Christ, as I know many Catholics who are as well. We recognize them by the Love they express to God and our fellow brothers and sisters in the Lord. I sometimes visit thier church, and find though I don’t agree with every doctrine, that I learn quite a bit from the spirited preaching at thier services and am able to more deeply appreciate the Catholic faith in doing so - indeed Catholics do believe in more things - such as Mary, and that is a good thing - after all Mary did say YES to God and is our Mother as Jesus said in one of His last words on the cross, but even still evangelicals have something Catholics don’t always have (though many do). they pray before meals, they fight for thier faith, they express it in public, they attend small groups and bible studies to learn more about the faith - and they tell people about thier faith whenever chance they get. These are good thing, that we Catholics could learn to do more - I am not saying we don’t - after all we have the sacraments, but they have same Jesus in a different way - they insist that everyone who calls oneself a Christian, have a deep and convicting belief in Jesus as Lord and Savior (as most Catholics do as well - and I would submit as any Christian who hopes to get to heaven must have) - for without His cross - without his blood in our place, the great chasm between ourselves and a Holy God is far too great for any mere human to cross - focus on the fact that evangelicals and Catholics share this same belief - we just disagree with them if acceptance of the free gift happens at a moment in time, ushering in a life which is filled with the Love of God in a profound way, or a lifetime of perserverance, struggling with our selfish desires and sinful ways to be able to stand before our Lord and have Him say - YES I truly knew you - welcome Home my Child - you walked the talk - so you have truly accepted Me.
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Very well said. I agree 100%.
 
At any rate, the basic fallacy here is the idea that if people believe mistaken things about Jesus or Mary or God or whatever, they are believing in a different Jesus or Mary or God. (That’s why there are silly people who say that Muslims worship a different God from Christians–some Catholics say this in defiance of the teaching of their own Church!)
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There’s only one Jesus.
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This was me til not too long ago. I believed Allah to be a false God not realizing that Muslims believed in the God of Abraham. i never had the inclination to study the basics of Islam and i was very shocked to discover in the Catechism what the Church taught re Muslims as believers in the true God. Once corrected i fully accept my error. It was not “defiance” it was ignorance of what the Church taught and i joyfully embrace being corrected. Muslims, however are deceived through erroneous teaching of the Quran as to Who Jesus really is. Our Lord and Saviour is the Word Incarnate.
 
I am a convert and I can say I was following the Jesus that I had invented for myself. The one that made me feel good about my life choices. ((Aside: Catholics can be guilty of the same thing on an individual basis). This question was posed on EWTN last week and the priest said that any discussion between Catholics and non-Catholic Christians must be honest and say we do not believe in the same Jesus. The Catholic Jesus “established a church and 7 sacraments and is keeping His promise to be with us always”. As I look back on my past, the evangelical Jesus left us alone to figure things out for ourselves. I had to try and have an emotional experience at church because I thought it was Jesus. Not to say people can’t experience Jesus like that. I think we can mistake our own emotionalism for a spiritual experience. “Be still and know that I am God.” There is a lot to be said for being quiet before the Lord, such as occurs at Mass. That is when He can break through to us and we can hear Him.

I know for me the reason I never felt like I was home was because I wasn’t following the true Jesus, only the one I had made up myself. However, mercy is the key. People who are sincerely trying to follow Christ and through NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN do not know the truth of the church, they are not wasting their time. God can use their openness to Him to lead them home.
 
Where in the Bible does Jesus or God institute the 7 sacraments??? I am very curious. The teachings and sayings of Jesus that I know to be true is recorded in the scriptures only.

Thank you

Rob
Just trying to follow God and His Word. Please me know.
 
I think the best place for you to get the answer to your question is on the Catholic Answers website. They have a library and a section under Sacraments. There is a lot of information there. You can also look in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. You will find many bible verses to support the fact that Christ established the 7 sacraments. After you read the information, I would encourage you to pray for God to show you truth and to protect you from error. I prayed this constantly on my journey and God was faithful. I was a very anti-catholic fundamentalist and for me to be Catholic now is nothing short of a miracle.

God Bless You
 
It’s the same person, they just have misinformation about Him and His mother.

As with anyone, the closer relationship you have to a person, the more you know about the person.
 
He’s gotta be the same Jesus. The Church accepts their baptism as long as its in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Right? 🙂
 
First of all I see that in your questions you are limiting the power of Almighty God. The Blessed Virgin Mary was a special creation.When she appeared at Lourdes to St. Bernadette she said she was the IMmaculate Conception. You can find out about the miracle of Lourdes on the computer if you do a little open minded research. Immaculate Conception means she did not suffer from original sin as the rest of humanity. You may say this is impossible but again you would be limiting God. Jesus has two natures; God and man. He was born with these two natures; consequently the Virgin Mary is the mother of God.
 
julie_butt said:
First of all I see that in your questions you are limiting the power of Almighty God. The Blessed Virgin Mary was a special creation.When she appeared at Lourdes to St. Bernadette she said she was the IMmaculate Conception. You can find out about the miracle of Lourdes on the computer if you do a little open minded research. Immaculate Conception means she did not suffer from original sin as the rest of humanity. You may say this is impossible but again you would be limiting God. Jesus has two natures; God and man. He was born with these two natures; consequently the Virgin Mary is the mother of God.
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Where in the Bible does it say that Mary was without original sin! And why was she married to Joseph? Why did the two get married if Mary could never please her husband sexually? This would have drove Joseph crazy, were the two just married to rise Jesus Christ and not have any kind of intimate marriage? Did not God institute marriage so that the “two may become one flesh.” Imagine Joseph’s temptation for living with a woman he could not know intimately. Mary was a great woman of God and the Holy Spirit of God chose her womb to bring in the perfect sacrifice for the world. She apparently was a God fearing woman, but she most likely was not sinless because she had to have been born from two sinful parents and I do not see in God’s Word evidence for Mary to live sinless life.:confused:

Just curious. Please let me know what you think.

Thank you, Rob
 
Just a couple of things to think about. Jesus made His own mother.
If you had the power to create your own mother how would you create her? The bible says you will know them by their fruits. What is the greatest FRUIT any person has produced as a result of their great love for God and obedience? Jesus, Mary brought salvation into the world. How pure, sinless, and holy do you think one would have to be to be able to bring God himself into the world? The Gospel of Luke does a wonderful job of showing Mary to be the new ark of the covenant. Read the account Mary going to Elizabeth and how Elizabeth FILLED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT exclaims, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the FRUIT of your womb, and how is it that the mother of my Lord should come to me,” and how John the baptist filled with the holy spirit is actually leaping in his mothers womb at the sound of Mary’s greeting, then read the account of David in the OT and his reaction when the ark of the covenant was brought before him and you will see a great parallel. Remember, that the OT is but a shadow of the NT. The OT ark carried the manna, the 10 commandments (word of God), and Aarons rod (the symbol of the high priest). Mary carried in her womb: The manna (Jesus, the bread of life), the word of God (Jesus is the word made flesh), and Jesus the true High Priest in her womb. When the angel appears to Mary, an angel that stands before the throne of all mighty God, he says to her Hail, FULL of Grace, which when actually translated from the Greek means one who has been and continues to be completed in Grace…no room for sin there. Also, the language that it used when the angel tells her that the Holy Spirit will overshadow her is the same language that is used to describe the glory cloud that overshadowed the OT ark.There is a lot of good information out there in the Catholic Answers archives, Tim Staples has some great cd resources. Also, Ed Sri and Scott Hahn have some great books about Mary. I would encourage you to take one thing about the Catholic teaching on Mary you do not understand and pray and ask God to show you the truth. He will, I know from experience. Don’t try to understand it all at once. I will be praying for you.
 
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