Is the Glories of Mary heretical?

[godisgood77]

Yes, I think you could say not only is He already going to do it, but He plans to do it by her intercession in the first place.

Seems like circular logic… as long as the will starts with God, I think we can agree.

ut she always cooperates: she is Mediatrix of All Graces.

Ah… Mediatrix of All Graces… That is an entirely different topic… and one that is not settled nor agreed upon within the Church… too ‘meaty’ a topic to derail this thread with, but happy to discuss either in another thread or via messaging

 

[rose321]

When was the last time you heard God say that he was not going to come upon the gifts we offer? That He was refusing the request of the priest? When was the last time a group of people gathered in Jesus’ name and He refused to participate?

Respectfully opinion only pondering, how do we know if our Heavenly Father accepts the gifts we choose to offer?
We do not know do we?
Within His Spoken Word all throughout the bible does he not tell us what he desires from us and what pleases him?
Man can only assume right?

And when Jesus walked the earth was he pleased with animal sacrifices?
Why did he get so angry when he went to the temple against the merchants selling animals? What is written within the Prophets seem to flow does it not? Maybe gives answer to why Jesus got angry on the temple porch?

All life is sacred in the blood unto Me?

What does our Heavenly Father tell us is accepted into his hands or not accepted into his hands within His Spoken Word?

Exodus 32:9 stiff neck people…
Psalm 40:6 sacrifice and offering you did not desire…

Covenant of Noah
Genesis 9:4 Only you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is its blood.
For your own lifeblood I will surely require a reckoning
" from every animal I will require it and from human beings each one for the blood of another. I will require a reckoning for human life.
Whoever sheds the blood of a human,
by a human shall that person blood be shed;
for in his own image God made humankind. continue reading…

Isaiah 1:11-12 What care I for the number of your sacrifices?
I have had enough of whole burnt rams and fat of fatlings
In the blood of calves, lambs and goats I find no pleasure.
When you come in to visit me
who ask theses things of you? continue reading

Isaiah 66:3 Merely slaughtering an ox is like slaying a man.

Been now 2,000 years? Temple destroyed why? Did Jesus come to put an end to such innocent blood sacrifices?

Books of our Heavenly Father great Prophets Isaiah and Jeremiah are interesting reads, in giving his Spoken Word and what he ask and what pleases him, are they not?

Matthew 3:7 This is my son who does all that pleases me…
Jesus obeyed his heavenly Father?

To many bible verses that list all that pleases our Heavenly Father, King David was a man after my own heart…

John Baptizer calls out Repent repent return to me and I will return to you?
Interesting is all. Peace:

 

[NJada]

Seems like circular logic… as long as the will starts with God, I think we can agree.

Well it is circular, I guess, haha.
Yes, everything starts and ends with God.

But it seems we agree for the most part. Language does get things unnecessarily confusing sometimes. But good thing God gave us a Church for that!

Sorry if I went a little over-the-top there. I’m very zealous for Mary’s honor and I believe that, so long as it is done in truth, we can never honor her enough, and honoring Mary only increases the honor of Jesus.

 

[rcwitness]

Got it… so Mary’s prayers, requests, etc shouldn’t be a stumbling block for anyone because she is simply asking Him for something He’s going to do anyway…

I dont think its necessarily that He would do it anyway. An intercession can move God to grace. Thats where it is hard to understand! It may not be opposed to His will, but He can listen to the prayers of petition, and change what was naturally happening.

I think our approach should be humble, as Mary certainly is. She may seek to intercede, but submitting to His will.

Kinda like Jesus in the Garden; “Lord, if possible, take this cup from me. Nevertheless, thy will be done, not mine”

 

[AlNg]

An intercession can move God to grace.

Yes, that is what is taught. What confuses me on this point is that God is immovable. And yet he is moved by an intercession.

 

[godisgood77]

Kinda like Jesus in the Garden; “Lord, if possible, take this cup from me. Nevertheless, thy will be done, not mine”

I think this is a great example … God’s will prevailed, even though a prayer to the contrary by the perfect God man was submitted.

 

[Francis]

am sorry you took it in a wrong way,we can always discern errors your post seemed your a protestant. If your a Catholic i don’t need to convince anything about the Mother of God ,all that matters is to have a child like faith to accept what the Catholic Church teaches, God’s Truth comes not only through Scripture but also through Tradition and the Magisterium. protestants,newly converts,RCIA,few Catholic,who have come back after a long time find it difficult to accept/ understand and about Mary and her status as the Mother of God.For that matter even few Catholic do not know or find it difficult at times to accept all the teachings of the Catholic Church on Mary,and they do have mental blocks and spiritual blocks, since they have preconceived notion about Mary the Eucharist and other teachings of the Catholic Church,even i had them in my school days,what’s wrong with it,everyone wants to know the truth, only when we have humility to we can accept correction and have a contrite heart, we can seek the truth and know who Mary is.i do not like to keep arguing spiritual matter, i perceived you have a good heart and you accept mistakes in you post,i pray as Jesus opened the heart of Lydia in Acts 16:14 .He may open your mind and heart to understand and accept Mary as you spiritual Mother.God Bless

Respectfully Just here discussing religious topics, questions asked, biblical questions about his Spoken Word etc

Doesn’t seemed so?

Blessed Mother goes directly to Jesus and does Jesus not tell us to go directly to him, he is our mediator and would he want us troubling our Blessed Mother?

No, Loving Mother wants to outshine her son now does she?

Jesus continues in such teaching instruction on how to pray and to whom, does he not?

Jesus taught us how to prayer and to whom, letting all know we can directly approach Him? Lords Prayer? >Which begins with > Our Father?

Jesus Apostles continue in such teaching, through their knowledge and understanding,

These are only few of your post,if you recheck and review your post,its all negative,and against mother Mary and are against all those who are for Mary,which you assume and not merely asking questions am sorry to say them.please correct me if am wrong, do take it in a positive and in a good spirit …

 

[Francis]

…continuation…

There are even prophecies that seem to be direct descriptions of Marian apparitions, for Zion (originally the fortress of king David) or the new Jerusalem are often magnified to such a point that they receive a supernatural glory. These cities are not only synonyms for the people of God or Israel, but especially of St. Mary.

For example: after the Last Judgment, salvation history comes to an end with the phase of revival, which consists of the creation of a new sky and a new earth (Rev 20:11-21:1). The continuation, that is to say, the transition to eternity, must be understood as an eternal peace phase similar to the one that normally inaugurates a new cycle. This eternal phase is also inaugurated by a phase of apparition, that is, by the descent of the luminous and brilliant new Jerusalem designated as the Bride of God (Rev 21:2; 21:9-27).

During the next phase, God the Spouse comes to settle in the new Jerusalem (Rev 21:3), which corresponds to the phase of arrival – not only of the Spirit but of all Trinitarian Persons. This is why there is no longer a temple, as in ancient Jerusalem, for “its temple is the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb” (Rev 21:22), who will reside in the new heavenly Jerusalem forever (Rev 22:3-5).Another shout of joy was expressed when Jesus entered the city of Jerusalem on a young donkey (Lk 19:28-40), which is announced by Zechariah 9:9: “Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion! Shout aloud, O daughter of Jerusalem! Behold, your king comes to you. Triumphant and victorious is he, humble and riding on a donkey.” This time, Zion is identified to “the multitude of the disciples” whose shout of joy was: “Blessed is the King who comes in the name of the Lord! Peace in heaven and glory in the highest!” (Lk 19:37-38). There were some Pharisees in the crowd who did not approve and wanted to hush the disciples. Yet Jesus answered them: “I tell you, if these are silent, the very stones will cry out” (Lk 19:39-40), which shows that prophecies do not exist in order to be prevented but to be realized.

If you have any direct questions about Mary please address them am glad to answer them.God Bless

 

[adgloriam]

Later editions have omitted or watered down some of the things written in the earlier editions. In glories of Mary it is written:

Your argumentation is past the point of “fair play” (and for that you are sectarian) you just keep throwing around out-of-context quotes.

Provide a screen-shot for exact reference. [Because the last “quote” you made just didn’t exist in the book!!! It was a pure lie - you distorted the words and changed the sentence - how shameless.]

 

[adgloriam]

Later editions have omitted or watered down some of the things written in the earlier editions.

Ohhh, you mean the original 1750 edition in latin, or would you prefer Italian.

The last “quote” you provided just doesn’t exist in the book !!! And I won’t waste my time entertaining you “slander” based on translation mistakes, or semantic discussions, since most of those quotes don’t exist to start with - perhaps only in your head and your ill will.

I also won’t entertain your repeated accusations when your first quote was an outright lie.

I do speak Italian and Latin enough, and I won’t be bothered going to lengthy rereading in multiple languages IF YOUR FIRST QUOTE DOES NOT EXIST AND IS A LIE!!!

You have lost your credibility. Your only aim “ain” is to spread calumny, dissension, lies, never actually bothering to assume yourself as not being catholic and spreading confusion willingly behind the mask of your agenda. Altogether there is no charity or honesty to your writing. I find you no longer worthy to be engaged, I only find your lies dangerous as the father of lies is dangerous. You have lied enough in this thread already.

 

[adgloriam]

Which editions contain the Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur ?

The 21,500 editions and the translations into 72 languages that his works have undergone attest to the fact that he is one of the most widely-read Catholic authors.

You have to be dumb beyond “good faith” to slander around such stupid lies disguised as questions.

You like playing stupid while you play smart. The contradiction your repeat is a lie in itself greater than any editors mistyping.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphonsus_Liguori#Overview

 

[adgloriam]

Hey @rcwitness there has been a lot of slander on this thread. I went looking for “quotes” that DO NOT EXIST in the book !!!..

As simple as that !!

The lies behind “quoting” what doesn’t exist, OR picking the 1 edition that contains “translation errors” among the 21000 editions out there, is simply: SCANDALOUS !

The sort of lie that doesn’t have to be entertained but should be faced head on, because otherwise only more lies -following the same method- will follow. I’m disappointed at so much “bad faith” and “ill will”. There’s no honesty to such shameless methods.

 

[rcwitness]

What are you referring to?

Something that I quoted?

I quoted Matthew 26: 39

He advanced a little and fell prostrate in prayer, saying, “My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from me; yet, not as I will, but as you will.”

 

[rose321]

So, you are a protestant! you’re having preconceived notion about Mary, which is a mental and spiritual block for you to understand Her, keep praying in humility, about her, have an open mind and heart, and ask Jesus to reveal about her.

Have determine I am a Protestant, really?
I have a mental and spiritual block?

Your taking it in a wrong way,see how easily you accuse me of judging and assuming things,lets be in James 3:2-11


James 3:2-11 is good for all to read and apply, we agree.

Francis:

Those protestants,newly converts,RCIA,few Catholic,who have come back after a long time find it difficult to accept/ understand and about Mary and her status as the Mother of God.

Those ?

For that matter even few Catholic do not know or find it difficult at times to accept all the teachings of the Catholic Church on Mary,and they do have

i do not like to keep arguing spiritual matter, i perceived you have a good heart and you accept mistakes in you post,i pray as Jesus opened the heart of Lydia in Acts 16:14 .He may open your mind and heart to understand and accept Mary as you spiritual Mother.God Bless

rose321:

If your a Catholic i don’t need to convince anything about the Mother of God ,all that matters is to have child like faith to accept the teaching of the Catholic Church and even in the Word of God which is more than enough.

If

These are only few of your post,if your recheck and review your post,its all negative,and against ,mother Mary and your post are against all those who are supporting Mary,which you assume and judge, Her and not merely asking questions am sorry to say them they are the facts.Please take it in a positive and in a good spirit…

Respectfully one stands by my posts, not being negative either, kindly disagree with , but having lots of questions one is pondering on His Spoken Word.

What I have posted can all be found in the bible, within Jesus own Spoken Words. I am only using our Heavenly Father’s gift of Free Will>>which gives all the right to question and to examine and the >>Freedom of thought, opinions, expression, and in posting Bible verses of his spoken word.

John 14:6 Jesus answered " I am the way and the truth and the life no one comes to the father except through me …

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator
Can list more bible verse on this.

Love, Honor our Blessed Mother and our Spiritual relationship is a Loving one and I feel no need to convince you of that either.

Truth comes not only through Scripture but also through Tradition and the Magisterium.

Would Jesus agree with you? >Matthew 23?

Peace.

 

[Francis]

She offered Her praise IN Luke 1:46-55, i didn’t say anything about boasting or or self glory.the Heavenly Father exalted her Matthew 23:12 All who exalt themselves will be humbled, and all who humble themselves will be exalted. as the Queen of Heaven Revelation 12:1 A great portent appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars (12 Apostles and 12 Tribes of Israel ).

James 1:17 Every generous act of giving, with every perfect gift, is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change.and what the Heavenly Father has give her is Full of Grace Luke 1:28 And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.Galatians 4:26 But the other woman corresponds to the Jerusalem above; she is free and she is our mother ( MARY). (MOTHER MARY IS SINLESS and Mary retain "perpetual virginity), 27 For it is written, “Rejoice, you childless one, you who bear no children, burst into song and shout, you who endure no birth pangs; for the children of the desolate woman are more numerous than the children of the one who is married.”

In Gen 3:15 Genesis 3:15 I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she (Mary) shall crush thy (satan) head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel. Hope you come to realize the Truth.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p123a9p6.htm

973 By pronouncing her “fiat” at the Annunciation and giving her consent to the Incarnation, Mary was already collaborating with the whole work her Son was to accomplish. She is mother wherever he is Savior and head of the Mystical Body.

974 The Most Blessed Virgin Mary, when the course of her earthly life was completed, was taken up body and soul into the glory of heaven, where she already shares in the glory of her Son’s Resurrection, anticipating the resurrection of all members of his Body.

975 “We believe that the Holy Mother of God, the new Eve, Mother of the Church, continues in heaven to exercise her maternal role on behalf of the members of Christ” (Paul VI, CPG § 15

 

[AlNg]

The last “quote” you provided just doesn’t exist in the book !!! It was a pure lie …You have lost your credibility. Your only aim “ain” is to spread calumny, dissension, lies…

It is a prayer of St. Alphonsus Liguori and it is on page 333 of the 1988 edition of the book which is available here:

The glories of Mary : Liguori, Alfonso Maria de', Saint, 1696-1787 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

802 p. ; 18 cm

archive.org

https://ia800204.us.archive.org/15/items/thegloriesofmary00liguuoft/thegloriesofmary00liguuoft_bw.pdf

or

The glories of Mary by Alphonsus Maria de Liguori | Open Library

The glories of Mary by Alphonsus Maria de Liguori, 1888, P.J. Kenedy edition,

openlibrary.org

You have to be dumb beyond “good faith” to slander around such stupid lies

Also if you look on pages 255 - 256 you will see some of the references to what I quoted earlier., which were on page 221 and page 222 of the 1931 edition.These were in the book and St. Alphonsus Liguori quotes other saints here For example, All those who are not thy servants , O Mary, shall perish, etc.

He who neglects the service of Mary shall die in sin. etc.

 

[Francis]

You for got to include

even i had them in my school days,what’s wrong with it,everyone wants to know the truth, only when we have humility to we can accept correction and have a contrite heart, we can seek the truth and know who Mary is.

You cut and pasted, i included myself in that list ,

What I have posted can all be found in the bible, within Jesus own Spoken Words. I am only using our Heavenly Father’s gift of Free Will>>which gives all the right to question and to examine and the >>Freedom of thought, opinions, expression, and in posting Bible verses of his spoken word.

same here,The Heavenly Father has Choose Mary as the Mother of God ,Which Mother did, co-operated by doing His Will in Luke 1:38. Lk 1:28, 30 – angel: “full of grace, found favor with God Lk 1:42 – Elizabeth: “most blessed among women” Lk 1:48 – Mary: “all generations will call me blessed” Mother of God Lk 1:43 – Elizabeth calls her “mother of my Lord” = God.
Genesis 3:15 I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she (Mary)shall crush thy (satan) head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel. Hope you come to realize the Truth.
Genesis 3:15 I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she (Mary) shall crush thy (satan) head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel. Hope you come to realize the Truth.
Galatians 4:26 But the other woman corresponds to the Jerusalem above; she is free and she is our mother ( MARY). (MOTHER MARY IS SINLESS and Mary retain "perpetual virginity),…

Yet you reject the Word of God and the Catholic Teaching

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p123a9p6.htm

. . . she is our Mother in the order of grace

967 By her complete adherence to the Father’s will, to his Son’s redemptive work, and to every prompting of the Holy Spirit, the Virgin Mary is the Church’s model of faith and charity. Thus she is a “preeminent and . . . wholly unique member of the Church”; indeed, she is the “exemplary realization” (typus)510 of the Church.

968 Her role in relation to the Church and to all humanity goes still further. "In a wholly singular way she cooperated by her obedience, faith, hope, and burning charity in the Savior’s work of restoring supernatural life to souls. For this reason she is a mother to us in the order of grace."511

969 "This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation . . . . Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix."512

 

[adgloriam]

True, but at the same time Mary is omnipotent according to the Glories of Mary.

“She is omnipotent, for the queen, according to all laws, enjoys the same privileges as the king; and since the son’s power also belongs to the mother, this Mother is made omnipotent by an omnipotent Son.”

@rcwitness

@AlNg WHERE IS THE ABOVE QUOTE ??? I spent 30 minutes on a busy day searching for it…I don’t care what edition it is in or not. First the quote doesn’t exist. And after butchering the words of the saint, you take it out-of-context twisting the meaning. I’m done searching for ill-willed readings, purposely twisted meanings, and quotes that don’t exist. @AlNg you got a problem take it up with the editor or the translator. Stop attributing malefic intentions of “watered down” wording. You’ve done a pretty job at lying and spreading captious calumny.

 

[adgloriam]

I’m sorry @rcwitness but I’m out of this thread because @AlNg went past what is tolerable or acceptable at spreading confusion. I won’t be bothered at deconstructing @AlNg twisting of meaning and out-of-context quotes (some of which simply don’t exist). Guess what, I chased the last quote by @AlNg and it doesn’t exist. And the only thing vaguely similar was part of a multi paragraph build-up that loses any meaning taking out individual sentences [the exact same technique the Atheists use in misquoting and twisting the bible.]

I love theology but I won’t engage in a conversation with someone “acting Christian” resorting to low-level rhetoric techniques like exposed above.

 

[rose321]

In Gen 3:15 Genesis 3:15 I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she (Mary) shall crush thy (satan) head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel. Hope you come to realize the Truth.

Respectfully pondering :slightly_smiling_facen what is written

Would Jesus be asking you tell me, who is her seed and thy seed?
Ones seed is their off spring are they not?
Between her seed and thy seed?

Who is persecuting her seed (wrritten not my words) her beloved Son till this day? Her seed is ones offspring is it not?
One is asking, looking for answers on.

Did not the Lord Jesus appear to St Paul, after his death, would our Lord not bestow great blessing and grace unto St Paul, while all were still alive also?

Did Moses appear in the presence of Jesus, witnessed also by St Peter James, St John would this not also be a great blessing and grace given to St Peter, James St John also?

Did angel Gabriel, being sent by our Heavenly Father > also appeared, spoke directly to > Zechariah (John Baptist Father, being also told > John while still in his mother womb was> filled with the Holy Spirit?

Did not Our Heavenly Father > bestowed His great Blessings, His Graces >fully upon Zechariah who our Lord sent angel Gabriel to Zechariah speaking directly to him? Angel Gabriel telling Zechariah > I stand in the presence of the Lord when doing so? Luke 1: 11-20?

Did our Heavenly Father also bestow his great Blessings, Graces upon Moses in whom our Heavenly Father himself > spoke directly with Moses?

Has not our Heavenly Father spoken directly bestowing His great Blessings, His Grace, to his Prophets and King David? Hosea? Daniel? list is long! All directly chosen, called to serve the Lord? Some whom our Heavenly Father himself> speaks directly to also? > Can list all the Bible verses on also.

Did not our Heavenly Father > bestow his great blessings, his graces upon all the Apostles? John Baptist? All freely choosing, accepting His Spoken Word as Truth where > all were called to serve him? Where all suffered great persecution, by the seeds of the enemy? Suffered horrible painful, innocent death, having all great Love in being called to serve the Lord, doing so faithfully, did they not?

Did Jesus also appear after in a vision >> to James the brother of the Lord, for he was not a believer or follower of Jesus when he was alive, Our Heavenly Father also greatly bestows His great Blessings, Graces upon this James also known by all in his time, as Yaahov ( means Jacob) thus we have the Epistle of James?

If we are all punished because of Adam and Eve sin, first Man/ Woman in the flesh and Father/ Mother to all human beings, who are given birth to and follow after , then are we not also all called to >>>become the New Adam and New Eve within ourselves also?

I am Holy thou art to be Holy also?

So one is asking, our Loving Heavenly Father has he not also chosen > fully bestowed, dispense His many Blessings and Graces upon others since the beginning of time and being> Sovereign continues to do so till this day?

Peace