Is the Greek Orthodox faith still part of Catholicism?

[BostonStrong]

Correct me if I’m wrong , but the great east/west schism of 1054 fragmented the Catholic faith into the Roman Catholicism we have today, and the eastern Orthodox Christianity that defined the Byzantine Empire.(Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, etc)

My mother was Catholic, my father Greek Orthodox, so I have always wondered how the two religions differed or were similar- they told me they had more similarities than differences-

I assumed the major difference was that Catholicism looked to the Pope in Rome, and the eastern Orthodox Christians looked to the Patriarch in Constantinople.
What about the Melkite Greek Catholic Church? Is that a version of Greek Orthodoxy that recognizes the Pope in Rome, rather than the Patriarch in Constantinople?

I have rediscovered my Catholic faith and have accepted Jesus, but am curious if my father’s Greek Orthodox religion falls within the umbrella of my Catholic faith, or if it is a totally different branch of Christianity.

Would I as a Catholic (and a half Greek) be able to participate in some Greek Orthodox traditions such as Greek Easter?

Thanks, God bless

 

[ThatCatholic]

The Eastern Orthodox are not Catholics. There are however Eastern Catholics, who for the most part have the same liturgy as the Eastern Orthodox but who recognize the supremacy of the Pope. You would need to consult with an expert to determine whether any individual act of participation in Orthodox services would be licit. Which religion were you raised as? Or did your parents try to raise you as both?

 

[Aramis]

The Greek Orthodox Church is not part of the Catholic Church… But there are many groups that came back into union after the schism.

They do share the same core Faith. (They don’t realize/admit it, for the most part.)

The differences between any Byzantine Catholic and Byzantine Orthodox (Russian Orthodox, Antiochian Orthodox, Greek Orthodox, Romanian Orthodox, etc) are less than the differences between Romans and Byzantines, at least as far as theology and praxis.

The difference between the Catholics of the Greek Church and Greek Orthodox are so few, that one would be hard pressed to tell the difference unless one specifically asks about divorce, the Pope, or the Immaculate Conception of Mary, or a few other specific details.

The Melkites
The Melkites are Catholic. The Antiochian Orthodox splintered from them when the majority of the Antiochian Synod came into union with Rome over two hundred years ago. (ISTR it being about 75% Melkite and 25% AO.)

 

[neokarny]

I assumed the major difference was that Catholicism looked to the Pope in Rome, and the eastern Orthodox Christians looked to the Patriarch in Constantinople.

I’m afraid the Roman Catholic view of the Pope is rather different from our view of the Patriarch of Constantinople. We don’t believe the Ecumenical Patriarch to have universal ordinary jurisdiction, any sort of infallibility, any special Petrine (or otherwise) charism, etc. He has primacy, but definitely not the sort of primacy that the Pope has for Catholics. Further, Orthodoxy is not at all decided by communion with the Patriarchate of Constantinople, unlike Catholicism’s apparent view of communion with the Roman See.

As an Antiochian Orthodox, I don’t look to His All-Holiness Patriarch Bartholomew at all honestly. I look to Metropolitan Philip, the primate of the North American Archdiocese, and His Beatitude Patriarch John X the primate of the Antiochian Orthodox Church.

 

[MorEphrem]

The Eastern Orthodox are not Catholics. There are however Eastern Catholics, who for the most part have the same liturgy as the Eastern Orthodox but who recognize the supremacy of the Pope…

Not to be a stickler on words but I think few Melkites would say they recognize the “supremacy” of the Pope, especially with what connotation I think you’re using.

 

[BostonStrong]

The Eastern Orthodox are not Catholics. There are however Eastern Catholics, who for the most part have the same liturgy as the Eastern Orthodox but who recognize the supremacy of the Pope. You would need to consult with an expert to determine whether any individual act of participation in Orthodox services would be licit. Which religion were you raised as? Or did your parents try to raise you as both?

I was baptized Catholic, my mother was Catholic, my father Greek Orthodox- we celebrated some traditions of both faiths, but we really weren’t church goers.
I realize only now my life would have been much more fullfilling had i fully embraced Jesus at a young age

 

[BostonStrong]

The Greek Orthodox Church is not part of the Catholic Church… But there are many groups that came back into union after the schism.

They do share the same core Faith. (They don’t realize/admit it, for the most part.)

The differences between any Byzantine Catholic and Byzantine Orthodox (Russian Orthodox, Antiochian Orthodox, Greek Orthodox, Romanian Orthodox, etc) are less than the differences between Romans and Byzantines, at least as far as theology and praxis.

The difference between the Catholics of the Greek Church and Greek Orthodox are so few, that one would be hard pressed to tell the difference unless one specifically asks about divorce, the Pope, or the Immaculate Conception of Mary, or a few other specific details.

The Melkites
The Melkites are Catholic. The Antiochian Orthodox splintered from them when the majority of the Antiochian Synod came into union with Rome over two hundred years ago. (ISTR it being about 75% Melkite and 25% AO.)

Thanks for the information!

One thing I have noticed with every relative who is Greek Orthodox is that they have much respect for Catholicism- maybe they know where the roots lay- a sharp contrast to my Protestant relatives who do nothing but badmouth Catholics

 

[malphono]

The Melkites
The Melkites are Catholic. The Antiochian Orthodox splintered from them when the majority of the Antiochian Synod came into union with Rome over two hundred years ago.

Yes, although I’m not so sure about the “Catholic” part. Personally I’d replace that word with “in union with Rome” (semantics, I know, but so much is) to give a more accurately picture.

(ISTR it being about 75% Melkite and 25% AO.)

That sounds about right. But I think the qualifier “at the time” is in order. I could be wrong, but I think the proportions have pretty much reversed.

 

[Boulder257]

I realize only now my life would have been much more fullfilling had i fully embraced Jesus at a young age

I had to smile and chuckle a little when I read this line because I think this is true for any of us at any point in our lives. I know I say the same thing myself everytime I walk out of the confessional. Ultimately, I had to go to confession because I chose something over Jesus. If only I had chose Jesus…

You are on the right track, my friend. No need to look backwards. Instead, focus on how much He loves you today and will love you tomorrow.

 

[BostonStrong]

I’m curious as to the difference between the Pope in Rome and the Patriarch of Constantinople. Are they seen by Catholics and eastern Orthodox Christians as having the same role? I thought the Orthodox Christians in the Byzantine Empire looked to Constantinople instead of Rome, which was a big reason for the great schism. Since Constantinople fell to the Muslim Turks in 1453, did the Orthodox Christians look back to Rome, or was there still an Orthodox Christian presense in Constantinople?

 

[BostonStrong]

I had to smile and chuckle a little when I read this line because I think this is true for any of us at any point in our lives. I know I say the same thing myself everytime I walk out of the confessional. Ultimately, I had to go to confession because I chose something over Jesus. If only I had chose Jesus…

You are on the right track, my friend. No need to look backwards. Instead, focus on how much He loves you today and will love you tomorrow.

Thanks! I have experienced life with- and without Jesus.
Take it from me, life without Jesus is not a fullfillng life.
Life with Jesus is what life is all about- not only will we feel his love, but it can help us love the people we care about

 

[lucia_kay]

I went to an Orthodox church some in high school and then became a Roman Catholic. Both traditions are part of who I am and I have said before that their disunity causes me a great deal of sadness. It can be a struggle for you as a Greek and me as an aspiring Hellenist to love a liturgy which is based upon Latin, but that is what we chose to do. Maybe we can support one another.

 

[malphono]

I’m curious as to the difference between the Pope in Rome and the Patriarch of Constantinople. Are they seen by Catholics and eastern Orthodox Christians as having the same role?

I’ll leave it to one of our resident Byzantines (Peter? Phillip? Diak? Aramis? or …?) to get into this in more detail, but the quick answer is no.

I thought the Orthodox Christians in the Byzantine Empire looked to Constantinople instead of Rome, which was a big reason for the great schism.

Another question for the same mavens, but my (not insignificant) knowledge of Church history says no.

Since Constantinople fell to the Muslim Turks in 1453, did the Orthodox Christians look back to Rome, or was there still an Orthodox Christian presense in Constantinople?

Just because Constantinople was conquered and churches (including Hagia Sophia) profaned by those same conquerors, doesn’t mean that the entire Christian population was wiped out. IOW, yes, there most definitely remained a Christian presence in Constantinople and, no, the Orthodox did not look to Rome. And of course the Byzantine mavens may add more detail as they see fit.

 

[neokarny]

I’m curious as to the difference between the Pope in Rome and the Patriarch of Constantinople. Are they seen by Catholics and eastern Orthodox Christians as having the same role?

I commented on this a few posts up:

I’m afraid the Roman Catholic view of the Pope is rather different from our view of the Patriarch of Constantinople. We don’t believe the Ecumenical Patriarch to have universal ordinary jurisdiction, any sort of infallibility, any special Petrine (or otherwise) charism, etc. He has primacy, but definitely not the sort of primacy that the Pope has for Catholics. Further, Orthodoxy is not at all decided by communion with the Patriarchate of Constantinople, unlike Catholicism’s apparent view of communion with the Roman See.

As an Antiochian Orthodox, I don’t look to His All-Holiness Patriarch Bartholomew at all honestly. I look to Metropolitan Philip, the primate of the North American Archdiocese, and His Beatitude Patriarch John X the primate of the Antiochian Orthodox Church.

 

[BostonStrong]

I commented on this a few posts up:

Thanks very much, apologies, i missed this first time around

 

[neokarny]

Thanks very much, apologies, i missed this first time around

Not a problem.

 

[Schism_hater]

The Eastern Orthodox are not Catholics.

I know that maybe you are trying to say that the Orthodox and not united with Rome, which is fine, but I cannot let an overbroad statement like “Eastern Orthodox are not Catholics” go by uncontested. We are indeed Catholics, in the oldest sense of the word. We have the “wholeness” of the Apostolic Faith, which was the original sense of “catholic”.

 

[ThatCatholic]

I know that maybe you are trying to say that the Orthodox and not united with Rome, which is fine, but I cannot let an overbroad statement like “Eastern Orthodox are not Catholics” go by uncontested. We are indeed Catholics, in the oldest sense of the word. We have the “wholeness” of the Apostolic Faith, which was the original sense of “catholic”.

You’re not Catholics in the “proper noun” sense of the word, which was indicated by the capatilization. Catholics would also say that you’re not catholic in the adjective sense either, but that’s another thread.

 

[neokarny]

Catholics would also say that you’re not catholic in the adjective sense either

Well I’m not sure about all Catholics, or even most.

 

[BostonStrong]

I know that maybe you are trying to say that the Orthodox and not united with Rome, which is fine, but I cannot let an overbroad statement like “Eastern Orthodox are not Catholics” go by uncontested. We are indeed Catholics, in the oldest sense of the word. We have the “wholeness” of the Apostolic Faith, which was the original sense of “catholic”.

Thats what I thought- my father used to tell me his Greek Orthodox faith fell under the Catholic umbrella