Is the Holy Eucharist only for Catholics?

[whatisthetruth]

Hi all

After reading through the threads posted, I believe you will agree with me there is a lot of concern when it comes to the question…“What is the truth about any issue which is posted”?

Since, God is our heavenly Father and we all are brothers and sisters in Jesus Christ our Lord, I also believe you will agree with me that there is one who knows the answer to that question…God and His word, the Bible.

Will you join me in prayer and ask God to assist us so we can all be in agreement on what His truth is about the Holy Eucharist.

Our Father who art in heaven,
hallowed be thy name,
thy kingdom come,
thy will be done
on earth as it is in heaven.

Give us this day our daily bread.
Forgive us our trespasses
as we forgive those who
trespass against us
and lead us not into temptation
but deliver us from evil…

Father, I want to thank you for your love and grace you have offered to all mankind. At times dear God we may feel like the prodical son, unworthy to be called you son/daughter.
Father, I thank you for your word that says you will never leave us or forsake us. I pray for strength and courage for everyone that we all may endure the race you planned before us.
Father, in your name I ask you to bless all your people with your wisdom and love. In our quest for the truth of your word, I pray that we all can work together with patience and understanding.

Lord, we honor your word by taking up the shield of faith which we can extinguish all the flaming arrows of untruths Satan throws our way as we hold the shield of faith and the sword of the Spirit which is the word of God. We look forward to the day all the “children of God” will be united as one body in heaven honoring and worshiping you.
In Jesus name I pray
Amen

I wanted to let you know my parents braught me up in the Catholic church. However, by the time I reached the age of 20, I began questioning as to why the “world view” is different from the Catholic view on certain issues.

One question I had and quite frankly was the difining moment in which I left the Catholic church.

My priest refused to serve communion to one of my friends, a born again Christian, at my wedding. Fortunately this did not happen at the ceremony. The priest informed my wife ans I in his office prior to the wedding that he can not serve communion to our friend.

I had asked myself right there, I wonder if God really descriminates like that. In my heart God told me no.

Since leaving the church I thank God he revealed the truth to me as to what communion is about. I read the thread on the Holy Eucharist.

I understand the Catholic beliefs. I was Catholic. I do not understand this…

Why was my friend refused to be served communion even before she had the choice to take it or not?

your reply is welcomed

Thank you

truth

 

[Scottgun]

The short answer is that when one takes communion, the asumption is that there is complete (and actual) unity with the Christ’s Catholic Church and acceptance of all that She teaches, and for a non-Catholic to take Our Lord and not be that would be a lie and therefore profaning the Sacrament which the Church has a duty to protect against.

 

[wifeandmomoftwo]

Hope this helps.

*As Catholics, we believe that the celebration of the Eucharist is a sign of our oneness in faith, life and worship. Members of churches with whom we are not yet fully united are therefore not ordinarily invited to participate in Holy Communion. The Catechism of the Catholic Church reflects on this teaching.

Ecclesial communities derived from the Reformation and separated from the Catholic Church, “have not preserved the proper reality of the Eucharistic mystery in its fullness, especially because of the absence of the sacrament of Holy Orders.” It is for this reason that Eucharistic intercommunion with these communities is not possible for the Catholic Church. However these ecclesial communities, “when they commemorate the Lord’s death and resurrection in the Holy Supper … profess that it signifies life in communion with Christ and await his coming in glory.” (Catechism of the Catholic Church, number 1400)*
For our fellow Christians
We welcome our fellow Christians to this celebration of the Eucharist as our brothers and sisters. We pray that our common baptism and the action of the Holy Spirit in this Eucharist will draw us closer to one another and begin to dispel the sad divisions which separate us. We pray that these will lessen and finally disappear, in keeping with Christ’s prayer for us “that they may all be one” (Jn 17:21).

Because Catholics believe that the celebration of the Eucharist is a sign of the reality of the oneness of faith, life, and worship, members of those churches with whom we are not yet fully united are ordinarily not admitted to Holy Communion. Eucharistic sharing in exceptional circumstances by other Christians requires permission according to the directives of the diocesan bishop and the provisions of canon law (canon 844 § 4). Members of the Orthodox Churches, the Assyrian Church of the East, and the Polish National Catholic Church are urged to respect the discipline of their own Churches. According to Roman Catholic discipline, the Code of Canon Law does not object to the reception of communion by Christians of these Churches (canon 844 § 3).
usccb.org/liturgy/q&a/mass/communion.shtml

 

[Mannyfit75]

It is also for Eastern Oriental Churches or Eastern Orthodox. The Catholic Church recognizes the valid Sacrament of the Eastern Christians, those who are not in full communion with Rome. They can if there is Eastern Orthodox Church in their area, Eastern Orthodox Christians may received Holy Communion in the Catholic Church.

Though, many Eastern Orthodox would avoid receiving ours. Some of their clergy or church leaders does not recognized the validity of the Catholic Church sacraments.

 

[mainusch]

My priest refused to serve communion to one of my friends, a born again Christian, at my wedding. Fortunately this did not happen at the ceremony. The priest informed my wife ans I in his office prior to the wedding that he can not serve communion to our friend.

I had asked myself right there, I wonder if God really descriminates like that. In my heart God told me no.

While something in your heart may have told you that God doesn’t discriminate, I doubt it was God. Throughout the Holy Scriptures God makes it perfectly clear that He does discriminate. Remember, if you hear a voice claiming to be God, but that voice contradicts scripture, it must not be God.

Matthew 25:32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate them one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, 33 and he will place the sheep at his right hand, but the goats at the left.

The Holy Eucharist is the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus. If the Church truly believes that, and your friend truly disbelieves that, why on earth would you expect the Church to actively aid in such blasphemy?

I believe the Eucharist is for EVERYONE. All are invited to come to the table. However, if when the priest hands you the host and says “the Body of Christ,” for someone to say “Amen” to that while holding a contrary view in their heart is a lie. A false pretense. A kind of desecration that we cannot allow.

 

[homewardbound]

Non-Catholic Christians cannot and should not receive the Eucharist because they do not believe in the Real Presence. For them to receive Our Lord with no understanding or belief, I believe is a sin and IMO very disrespectful to God. Most Protestants view Communion as a “symbol” which contradicts scripture. To allow them to receive the Body and Blood of Christ without fully understanding the True Presence is very wrong indeed. The error is with your understanding of Church teaching, not in the Church nor God(as their teaching is one and the same).

 

[Rolltide]

You also have to realize that the Holy Eucharist is something that even many Catholics are unable to receive. If someone has a mortal sin on their soul, they are required to go to confession before receiving or they commit another mortal sin. Now, in practice, many Catholics do go up and receive unworthily, but that doesn’t make it right.

Also, as mentioned below, Communion is considered, in addition to everything else, a sacrament of initiation, along with Baptism and Confirmation. The word “catholic” means “universal”, and those universal beliefs include all that the Catholic Church teaches, including the Real Presence. I know as a Catholic, that when I was preparing to receive my First Communion, I took CCD classes for almost a year on this topic alone. Most converts to the faith go through at least a year of discernment in RCIA so they are aware of all that is necessary to be believed in the faith. It’s no double standard. We hold ALL members of the church to the same expectation of belief and level of preparation in order to receive Communion.

 

[whatisthetruth]

Hi mainusch;

Thank you for your reply and everyone elses.

At our chuch my pastor always starts by saying what you said too…“All are invited to come to the table” he continues “this is the Lord’s table not ours”.

I believe the Eucharist is for EVERYONE.

Difference is right here because of the Catholic belief…
When we have communion service, we remember and recall the events of the Last Supper and the signifigance as Jesus knew he would be soon enduring a lot of pain, suffering and everntual death on the cross to express His love for all of us.

The “bread” and “wine” which we use are not seen as having been changed into

The Holy Eucharist is the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus.

Rather we see it as symbolic to the event which took place.

In the canon it is said “Christ will come again”

If the Eucharist is the actual body of Christ, then Christ has already come and has been multi distributed all over the world.
and continues to be.

When we partake communion we remember all the promises of God and accept the truth of the Gospel

By eating the “bread” we realize Jesus body was broken and beaten so that through His sacrifice our bodies would be made whole again. We thank Him for that

By drinking from the cup we realize every drop of blood was shed from Jesus’s body so that all our sins are forgive by one’s trust in Him for the sacrifice He made.

However, if when the priest hands you the host and says “the Body of Christ,” for someone to say “Amen” to that while holding a contrary view in their heart is a lie. A false pretense. A kind of desecration that we cannot allow

I agree what you are saying based on the Catholic belief and as a Catholic I did not fully understand the reason for the objection of my priest or fully understand my friends’ beliefs. All I knew at the time was that she was born again Christian.

Today if I were to attend a Catholic service, I would not take communion because I now share the same belief as my friend did and as I expressed above.

If the Church truly believes that, and your friend truly disbelieves that, why on earth would you expect the Church to actively aid in such blasphemy?

I understand know what you are saying, I didn’t understand then.
I just wanted someone to say it here as to illustrate one area where we interprit God’s word differently.

The bottom line question is
How does God feel about the communion services taking place in different chuches?

In one church it is a spiritual remembrance of what took place.

In the Catholic church the actual body of Christ is being distributed.

What is the truth?

wifeandmomoftwo says the truth of Catholics can be found in

Hope this helps.
As Catholics, we believe that the celebration of the Eucharist is a sign of our oneness in faith, life and worship. Members of churches with whom we are not yet fully united are therefore not ordinarily invited to participate in Holy Communion. The Catechism of the Catholic Church reflects on this teaching.

As a catholic I missed the part of who can’t recieve the Eucharist.

However, today the souce of my teaching is from the Bible a book I never read as a Catholic because of the differences with the chatecism

No purgatory, mortal or venial sin to mention a couple.

So who is practicing communion in the way God wants it to be.
Somehow I doubt God accepts both ways?

Thank you,

truth

 

[LilyM]

Not only is it true, as stated above, that many Catholics at times cannot receive Communion, but that Catholics cannot receive Communion in other churches either.

Again, this is because for us to do so would be to profess, by our action of receiving Communion there, to holding to the beliefs of those other churches.

And it’s a Biblical concept - St Paul speaks not only against receiving the Body and Blood unworthily (with grave sin on our souls) but also against receiving it ‘without discerning’ (proper understanding).

So someone who doesn’t properly understand the Eucharist - that is is truly and in reality the Body and Blood of Christ, and ONLY the Body and Blood unmixed with mere bread or wine as some Protestants believe, is wrong to receive.

 

[homewardbound]

Hi mainusch;

Thank you for your reply and everyone elses.

At our chuch my pastor always starts by saying what you said too…“All are invited to come to the table” he continues “this is the Lord’s table not ours”.

Difference is right here because of the Catholic belief…
When we have communion service, we remember and recall the events of the Last Supper and the signifigance as Jesus knew he would be soon enduring a lot of pain, suffering and everntual death on the cross to express His love for all of us.

The “bread” and “wine” which we use are not seen as having been changed into

Rather we see it as symbolic to the event which took place.

In the canon it is said “Christ will come again”

If the Eucharist is the actual body of Christ, then Christ has already come and has been multi distributed all over the world.
and continues to be.

When we partake communion we remember all the promises of God and accept the truth of the Gospel

By eating the “bread” we realize Jesus body was broken and beaten so that through His sacrifice our bodies would be made whole again. We thank Him for that

By drinking from the cup we realize every drop of blood was shed from Jesus’s body so that all our sins are forgive by one’s trust in Him for the sacrifice He made.

I agree what you are saying based on the Catholic belief and as a Catholic I did not fully understand the reason for the objection of my priest or fully understand my friends’ beliefs. All I knew at the time was that she was born again Christian.

Today if I were to attend a Catholic service, I would not take communion because I now share the same belief as my friend did and as I expressed above.

If the Church truly believes that, and your friend truly disbelieves that, why on earth would you expect the Church to actively aid in such blasphemy?

I understand know what you are saying, I didn’t understand then.
I just wanted someone to say it here as to illustrate one area where we interprit God’s word differently.

The bottom line question is
How does God feel about the communion services taking place in different chuches?

In one church it is a spiritual remembrance of what took place.

In the Catholic church the actual body of Christ is being distributed.

What is the truth?

wifeandmomoftwo says the truth of Catholics can be found in

As a catholic I missed the part of who can’t recieve the Eucharist.

However, today the souce of my teaching is from the Bible a book I never read as a Catholic because of the differences with the chatecism

No purgatory, mortal or venial sin to mention a couple.

So who is practicing communion in the way God wants it to be.
Somehow I doubt God accepts both ways?

Thank you,

truth

Have you ever read John chapter 6? If Jesus meant Communion to be taken symbolically why didn’t he correct the Jews? He told them “Whoever does not eat of my flesh and blood has no life in him” and the Jews were quite shocked…how could he expect them to actually eat his flesh and blood? They walked away. If Jesus did not mean this the way the Jews thought, why did he not stop them and let them know he only meant it symbolically? makes absolutely no sense to me. If Jesus meant it as a symbol and allowed the Jews to turn their back on Him, did he not just sin?

You never read your Bible as a Catholic because…???

It definitely had nothing to do with Catholic teaching, I have yet to meet a Catholic who does not read their Bible and study it. Thats no ones fault but your own

I am sorry you are so confused and turned away from God’s Church. I hope God will lead you back where He wants you.

 

[Rolltide]

Let me give you some historical evidence to back up the Catholic viewpoint on Communion.

I am pasting below an argument that I presented on another thread a couple of months ago:

The topic I’ve chosen is the Eucharist, and specifically, the Real Presence. Catholics believe that Jesus is not just symbolically present in Communion, but actually physically present. You may be interested to note that we are not the only denomination that holds to this view. In fact, about 2/3 of ALL Christians believe this to be true, including the Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, and some Anglicans. In order to prove the Real Presence, I think it’s essential to look at both what the Bible says and what has historically been true. After all, if it is a corruption, it should be fairly easy to track down at what point it entered into Catholic belief.

So, I’m going to begin to answer the question from the historical perspective, and then go back and deal with the Biblical issues. I realize that it will be very important to back up the claim with what’s taught in the Bible, since it is an inspired source. BUT, if we want to know how to correctly interpret that source, we need to see what the apostles and the followers of the apostles thought about how it should be interpreted. If it matters, I’m a professional historian at a small private college in the South, although my area of expertise is Latin America, not the Catholic Church or theology. (Just so you know that my research has some credibility.)

 

[Rolltide]

I will try to present some evidence for you in reverse order, starting with dates we can both agree on and then working backward. Keep in mind that despite my profession, I am no liturgical effort, and I’m sure others on here can help me out.

First, a couple of assumptions:

1. I think we can both agree that the idea of the Real Presence in the Eucharist is established by the Reformation, so I will leave any discussion from that era out.
2. Since the Eastern Orthodox Church also believes in the Real Presence in the Eucharist (and the Roman Catholic Church recognizes the legitimacy of the Real Presence in the Orthodox Eucharist), we can assume that the doctrine predates the Great Schism between the Catholics and Orthodox.

(Now, that said, the Orthodox will not use the word “Transubstantiation”. They leave the miracle of the change of the bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Christ as a mystery, but they DO believe in the Real Presence of Christ, and in basically the same way as Catholics.)

Ok, right away I suggest that we can push the date much further back, since the Oriental Orthodox and the Assyrian Church of the East BOTH believe in the Real Presence in the Eucharist, and they broke off from the Catholic Church as a result of the Council of Ephesus in 431 and the Council of Chalcedon in 451. This fact pretty well speaks for itself, so we now have the date pushed back to the early to mid 5th century. Bear in mind that the word “Transubstantiation” did not develop until much later, as a result of challenges to this doctrine. The Catholic Church does not generally define dogmas unless the particular belief is challenged and requires further explicit explanation. You cannot judge when the belief began by the introduction of the word Transubstantiation.

While we’re at it, it’s probably good to look at what the Council of Ephesus had to say on the matter:
**
Council of Ephesus**

“We will necessarily add this also. Proclaiming the death, according to the flesh, of the only-begotten Son of God, that is Jesus Christ, confessing his resurrection from the dead, and his ascension into heaven, we offer the unbloody sacrifice in the churches, and so go on to the mystical thanksgivings, and are sanctified, having received his holy flesh and the precious blood of Christ the Savior of us all. And not as common flesh do we receive it; God forbid: nor as of a man sanctified and associated with the Word according to the unity of worth, or as having a divine indwelling, but as truly the life-giving and very flesh of the Word himself. For he is the life according to his nature as God, and when he became united to his flesh, he made it also to be life-giving” (Session 1, Letter of Cyril to Nestorius [A.D. 431]).

As an official pronouncement of the church, the date of the belief is now safely established at least as far back as 431 A.D.

 

[Rolltide]

We can now proceed to push the date of the doctrine of the Real Presence back even further, using quotes from St. Augustine, Theodore of Mopsuestia, and St. Ambrose:

Augustine

“Christ was carried in his own hands when, referring to his own body, he said, ‘This is my body’ [Matt. 26:26]. For he carried that body in his hands”** (Explanations of the Psalms 33:1:10 [A.D. 405]).**

“I promised you [new Christians], who have now been baptized, a sermon in which I would explain the sacrament of the Lord’s Table. . . . That bread which you see on the altar, having been sanctified by the word of God, is the body of Christ. That chalice, or rather, what is in that chalice, having been sanctified by the word of God, is the blood of Christ” (Sermons 227 [A.D. 411]).

“What you see is the bread and the chalice; that is what your own eyes report to you. But what your faith obliges you to accept is that the bread is the body of Christ and the chalice is the blood of Christ. This has been said very briefly, which may perhaps be sufficient for faith; yet faith does not desire instruction”** (ibid., 272).**
**
Theodore of Mopsuestia**

“When [Christ] gave the bread he did not say, ‘This is the symbol of my body,’ but, ‘This is my body.’ In the same way, when he gave the cup of his blood he did not say, ‘This is the symbol of my blood,’ but, ‘This is my blood’; for he wanted us to look upon the [Eucharistic elements] after their reception of grace and the coming of the Holy Spirit not according to their nature, but receive them as they are, the body and blood of our Lord. We ought . . . not regard [the elements] merely as bread and cup, but as the body and blood of the Lord, into which they were transformed by the descent of the Holy Spirit” (Catechetical Homilies 5:1 [A.D. 405]).

Ambrose of Milan

“Perhaps you may be saying, ‘I see something else; how can you assure me that I am receiving the body of Christ?’ It but remains for us to prove it. And how many are the examples we might use! . . . Christ is in that sacrament, because it is the body of Christ” (The Mysteries 9:50, 58 [A.D. 390]).

These are all mainstream figures in the Catholic Church. Ambrose and Augustine were both important bishops. These statements are clear, and they define the position of the Catholic Church, which is then stated more formally at the Council of Ephesus. As a result, it’s clear that the idea of the Real Presence develops absolutely no later than the late 4th century.

 

[Rolltide]

I should mention that most of these quotes are coming from the Catholic Answers library on the front page of this site. I’m just adding some additional commentary.

In 350 A.D., we have another very important document from Cyril of Jerusalem. He states:

“The bread and the wine of the Eucharist before the holy invocation of the adorable Trinity were simple bread and wine, but the invocation having been made, the bread becomes the body of Christ and the wine the blood of Christ” (Catechetical Lectures 19:7 [A.D. 350]).

“Do not, therefore, regard the bread and wine as simply that; for they are, according to the Master’s declaration, the body and blood of Christ. Even though the senses suggest to you the other, let faith make you firm. Do not judge in this matter by taste, but be fully assured by the faith, not doubting that you have been deemed worthy of the body and blood of Christ. . . . [Since you are] fully convinced that the apparent bread is not bread, even though it is sensible to the taste, but the body of Christ, and that the apparent wine is not wine, even though the taste would have it so, . . . partake of that bread as something spiritual, and put a cheerful face on your soul” (ibid., 22:6, 9).

Again, we have a clear indication of the doctrine of the Real Presence. Now we begin with some quotes that are slightly less clear, but offer some strong evidence for the Real Presence:

Aphraahat the Persian Sage

“After having spoken thus [at the Last Supper], the Lord rose up from the place where he had made the Passover and had given his body as food and his blood as drink, and he went with his disciples to the place where he was to be arrested. But he ate of his own body and drank of his own blood, while he was pondering on the dead. With his own hands the Lord presented his own body to be eaten, and before he was crucified he gave his blood as drink” (Treatises 12:6 [A.D. 340]).

Now granted, this particular quote could be interpreted as merely symbolic, but given the documentary evidence from other sources and the fact that the Real Presence is clearly believed in 350 A.D., it strongly suggests that this quote is to be taken literally.

Council of Nicaea I

“It has come to the knowledge of the holy and great synod that, in some districts and cities, the deacons administer the Eucharist to the presbyters *, whereas neither canon nor custom permits that they who have no right to offer [the Eucharistic sacrifice] should give the Body of Christ to them that do offer [it]” (Canon 18 [A.D. 325]).

Here we have a reference to the Eucharist in one of the most important of all Church councils, the Council of Nicaea. The important parts of this quote are the reference to the sacrificial, rather than symbolic nature of the Eucharist, and the fact that it is regarded as something special and important enough that only priests and bishops may offer it.

Next, we have Cyprian of Carthage talking about how the Eucharist must be eaten only by those who have confessed of their sins. The sacrifice of the Eucharist may only be consumed by the pure, because it is truly the Body and Blood of Christ. He then proceeds to back up his opinion through Holy Scripture:

Cyprian of Carthage

“He [Paul] threatens, moreover, the stubborn and forward, and denounces them, saying, ‘Whosoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily, is guilty of the body and blood of the Lord’ [1 Cor. 11:27]. All these warnings being scorned and contemned—[lapsed Christians will often take Communion] before their sin is expiated, before confession has been made of their crime, before their conscience has been purged by sacrifice and by the hand of the priest, before the offense of an angry and threatening Lord has been appeased, [and so] violence is done to his body and blood; and they sin now against their Lord more with their hand and mouth than when they denied their Lord” (The Lapsed 15–16 [A.D. 251]).*

 

[Rolltide]

Here are several more quotes:

Origen

“Formerly there was baptism in an obscure way . . . now, however, in full view, there is regeneration in water and in the Holy Spirit. Formerly, in an obscure way, there was manna for food; now, however, in full view, there is the true food, the flesh of the Word of God, as he himself says: ‘My flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink’ [John 6:55]” (Homilies on Numbers 7:2 [A.D. 248]).
**
Hippolytus**

“‘And she [Wisdom] has furnished her table’ [Prov. 9:2] . . . refers to his [Christ’s] honored and undefiled body and blood, which day by day are administered and offered sacrificially at the spiritual divine table, as a memorial of that first and ever-memorable table of the spiritual divine supper *” (Fragment from Commentary on Proverbs [A.D. 217]).

Tertullian

“[T]here is not a soul that can at all procure salvation, except it believe whilst it is in the flesh, so true is it that the flesh is the very condition on which salvation hinges. And since the soul is, in consequence of its salvation, chosen to the service of God, it is the flesh which actually renders it capable of such service. The flesh, indeed, is washed [in baptism], in order that the soul may be cleansed . . . the flesh is shadowed with the imposition of hands [in confirmation], that the soul also may be illuminated by the Spirit; the flesh feeds [in the Eucharist] on the body and blood of Christ, that the soul likewise may be filled with God” (The Resurrection of the Dead 8 [A.D. 210]).

Clement of Alexandria

“’Eat my flesh,’ [Jesus] says, ‘and drink my blood.’ The Lord supplies us with these intimate nutrients, he delivers over his flesh and pours out his blood, and nothing is lacking for the growth of his children” (The Instructor of Children 1:6:43:3 [A.D. 191]).

Here is what J. N. D. Kelly has to say in his book Early Christian Doctrines about the above quotes. (pgs 211-212):

“Hippolytus speaks of ‘the body and the blood’ through which the Church is saved, and Tertullian regularly describes the bread as ‘the Lord’s body.’ The converted pagan, he remarks, ‘feeds on the richness of the Lord’s body, that is, on the Eucharist.’ The realism of his theology comes to light in the argument, based on the intimate relation of body and soul, that just as in baptism the body is washed with water so that the soul may be cleansed, so in the Eucharist ‘the flesh feeds upon Christ’s body and blood so that the soul may be filled with God.’ Clearly his assumption is that the Savior’s body and blood are as real as the baptismal water. Cyprian’s attitude is similar. (see my last post) Lapsed Christians who claim communion without doing penance, he declares, ‘do violence to his body and blood, a sin more heinous against the Lord with their hands and mouths than when they denied him.’ Later he expatiates on the terrifying consequences of profaning the sacrament, and the stories he tells confirm that he took the Real Presence literally”.

Now, out of these last few passages, no single quote would support belief in the Real Presence all by itself. However, taken as a collection, it provides strong evidence that the belief was widespread. In light of even earlier documentary evidence (which I’ll give in my next post) that is far more clear on the doctrine of the Real Presence, these quotes become important as evidence of continuity.*

 

[Rolltide]

And finally, we come to the most important quotes of all:

Irenaeus

“If the Lord were from other than the Father, how could he rightly take bread, which is of the same creation as our own, and confess it to be his body and affirm that the mixture in the cup is his blood?” (Against Heresies 4:33–32 [A.D. 189]).

“He has declared the cup, a part of creation, to be his own blood, from which he causes our blood to flow; and the bread, a part of creation, he has established as his own body, from which he gives increase unto our bodies. When, therefore, the mixed cup [wine and water] and the baked bread receives the Word of God and becomes the Eucharist, the body of Christ, and from these the substance of our flesh is increased and supported, how can they say that the flesh is not capable of receiving the gift of God, which is eternal life—flesh which is nourished by the body and blood of the Lord, and is in fact a member of him?” (ibid., 5:2).

About this passage, J.N. D. Kelly states:
From the Church’s early days, the Fathers referred to Christ’s presence in the Eucharist. Kelly writes: "Ignatius roundly declares that . . . [t]he bread is the flesh of Jesus, the cup his blood. Clearly he intends this realism to be taken strictly, for he makes it the basis of his argument against the Docetists’ denial of the reality of Christ’s body. . . . Irenaeus teaches that the bread and wine are really the Lord’s body and blood. His witness is, indeed, all the more impressive because he produces it quite incidentally while refuting the Gnostic and Docetic rejection of the Lord’s real humanity" (ibid., 197–98).

Now this IS significant! We have Iraneus of Lyons, in 189 A.D., writing an entire tract to refute the heresy of the Docetists. Here is what Wikipedia says about the Docetists:

"In Christianity, Docetism (from the Greek δοκέω [dokeō], “to seem”) is the belief that Jesus’ physical body was an illusion, as was his crucifixion; that is, Jesus only seemed to have a physical body and to physically die, but in reality he was incorporeal, a pure spirit, and hence could not physically die. This belief treats the sentence “the Word was made Flesh” (John 1:14) as merely figurative. Docetism has historically been regarded as heretical by most Christian theologians.

Christology and theological implications

This belief is most commonly attributed to the Gnostics, who believed that matter was evil, and hence that God would not take on a material body. This statement is rooted in the idea that a divine spark is imprisoned within the material body, and that the material body is in itself an obstacle, deliberately created by an evil lesser god (the demiurge) to prevent man from seeing his divine origin.

Docetism could be further explained as the view that, because the human body is temporary and the spirit is eternal, the body of Jesus therefore must have been an illusion and his crucifixion as well. Even so, saying that the human body is temporary has a tendency to undercut the importance of the belief in resurrection of the dead and the goodness of created matter, and is in opposition to this orthodox view. Docetism was rejected by the ecumenical councils and mainstream Christianity, largely dying out during the first millennium A.D. . Other surviving gnostic movements, such as Catharism incorporated docetism into their beliefs, but the movement was destroyed by the Albigensian Crusade (1209-1229)."

Irenaeus is arguing against Docetism because it denies the sacrifice of Jesus. If God could never take true human form because it was evil, then Jesus’ death was simply an illusion with no real value. Irenaeus HAD to emphasize the Real Presence as part of his argument to prove that Jesus actually DID become flesh. How could someone reject the Real Presence as possible if it didn’t already exist?! The document by Irenaeus is long, but clear, and combined with the other quotes above, helps to push the date for the Real Presence all the way back to the late 2nd century. Keep in mind that Irenaeus was born a mere 25-30 years after the death of the Apostle John, so we are now getting VERY close to the New Testament era.

 

[Rolltide]

Justin Martyr

“We call this food Eucharist, and no one else is permitted to partake of it, except one who believes our teaching to be true and who has been washed in the washing which is for the remission of sins and for regeneration * and is thereby living as Christ enjoined. For not as common bread nor common drink do we receive these; but since Jesus Christ our Savior was made incarnate by the word of God and had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so too, as we have been taught, the food which has been made into the Eucharist by the Eucharistic prayer set down by him, and by the change of which our blood and flesh is nurtured, is both the flesh and the blood of that incarnated Jesus” (First Apology 66 [A.D. 151]).

Here, we have Justin Martyr writing an Apology (a defense of the Christian faith) to the Roman Emperor Antoninus Pius to try and defend the practices of the Christians and thus end the illegality and persecution of the Church. As such, it had to be very accurate as to the current beliefs of the Catholic Church, as it would be read by high officials, and possibly Antoninus Pius himself. As a classically trained philosopher, he was well-versed in the debating methods of the time, as well as the arguments of the Romans themselves. The First Apology was written in 151 A.D., so the Real Presence is now clearly a Catholic doctrine just a mere 121 years after the death of Christ, and about 50 years after the death of John, the last surviving apostle.

Ignatius of Antioch

“I have no taste for corruptible food nor for the pleasures of this life. I desire the bread of God, which is the flesh of Jesus Christ, who was of the seed of David; and for drink I desire his blood, which is love incorruptible” (Letter to the Romans 7:3 [A.D. 110]).

“Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God. . . . They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father, in his goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes” (Letter to the Smyrnaeans 6:2–7:1 [A.D. 110]).

And finally, we have the most important quote of all. Our existing evidence suggests that Ignatius was trained by none other than the Apostle John himself, and that he was personally ordained a bishop by the Apostle Peter. This is a man who intimately knew and conversed with the Apostles, and even HE is professing belief in the Real Presence. He is doing this in his letters to his congregations, and we have written records of it as early as 110 AD. The Didache, written about 70 AD (not by Ignatius, but by an unknown author), is the oldest non-Biblical surviving document that we have about Christianity, and it too emphasizes the sacrificial nature of the Mass.

So what’s the bottom line? If the Real Presence of the Eucharist is a false teaching, then the Apostles themselves incorrectly trained and appointed a bishop with false beliefs, and are responsible for the perversion of the Catholic Church. It is very clear that this would not be likely. There are other documents that also support this opinion, but I’ve only listed the most important and significant ones. I should also point out some relevant Bible passages:

1 Cor. 10:16–17, 11:23–29; and, most forcefully, John 6:32–71

It would also do you well to read “The Lamb’s Supper” by Scott Hahn. It describes in detail how the Catholic Church has always taught that the Book of Revelation by John is in fact an analogy describing the Sacrifice of the Mass. Most of the images used are direct symbolic representations of the various parts of the Catholic Mass. His interpretation is not new (nor is it the only acceptable one), but it does demonstrate how the Mass IS highly Biblical, as is the Real Presence and its sacrificial nature.

I now give you some time to digest all of this… *

 

[Rolltide]

I should also note that the vast majority of Christian denominations believe in the Real Presence. By numbers:

Those that believe in the Real Presence
Catholics - 1,120,000,000
Eastern Orthodox - 225,000,000
Oriental Orthodox - 72,000,000

Total - 1,417,000,000

Anglicanism - 77,000,000 (Some believe in the Real Presence, some do not)

Those that reject the Real Presence
Protestantism (mainline) - 590,000,000
Pentacostalism - 105,000,000
Non-Trinitarian - 28,500,000
Restorationaism - 18,000,000

Total - 741,500,000

Total number of Christians - 2,235,500,000
Percentage of those that believe in the Real Presence - 63.38%
Percentage of those that reject the Real Presence - 33.17%
Percentage of Anglicans - 3.44%

Now, of course, I realize that this says nothing about whether the belief is actually true or not, but is a powerful indication of what the MAJORITY of Christians believe.

 

[Rolltide]

I’d also like to present the following Biblical argument, spelled out expertly in The Lamb’s Supper by Dr. Scott Hahn. Perhaps you would like to re-read Revelation in light of the following idea. Compare the imagery of Revelation to the parts of the Catholic Mass:

Sunday worship 1:10
a high priest 1:13
an altar 8:3-4; 11:1; 14:18
priests (presybteroi) 4:4; 11:15; 14:3; 19:4
vestments 1:13; 4:4; 6:11; 7:9; 15:6; 19:13-14
consecrated celibacy 14:4
lamp stands, or Menorah 1:12, 2:5
penitence ch. 2 and 3
incense 5:8; 8:3-5
the book, or scroll 5:1
the Eucharistic Host 2:17
chalices 15:7; ch. 16; 21:9
the Sign of the Cross (the tau) 7:3; 14:1; 22:4
the Gloria 15:3-4
the Alleluia 19:1, 3, 4, 6
Lift up your hearts 11:12
the “Holy, Holy, Holy” 4:8
the Amen 19:4; 22:21
the “Lamb of God” 5:6 and throughout
the prominence of the Virgin Mary 12:1-6; 13-17
intercession of angels and saints 5:8; 6:0-10; 8:3-4
(You will want to pay attention to these three in particular. Jesus is referred to as the “Lamb of God” in Revelation (and almost exclusively in Revelation) to emphasize his ongoing sacrifice. He becomes the one perfect sacrifice for all, and replaces eternally all other sacrifice. His sacrifice, which continues for all time in the Catholic Mass, is a foreshadowing of the worship we will have for God in Heaven.)
devotion to St. Michael, archangel 12:7
antiphonal chant 4:8-11; 5:9-14; 7:10-12; 18:1-8
readings from Scripture ch 2-3; 5; 8:2-11
(again, note the strong importance of Scripture with regard to the Mass)
the priesthood of the faithful 1:6; 20:6
catholicity, or universality 7:9
silent contemplation 8:1
the marriage supper of the Lamb 19:9, 17

I could go into much greater detail, but Dr. Hahn does it much better than I.

 

[mercygate]

I should also note that the vast majority of Christian denominations believe in the Real Presence. By numbers:

Those that believe in the Real Presence
Catholics - 1,120,000,000
Eastern Orthodox - 225,000,000
Oriental Orthodox - 72,000,000

Total - 1,417,000,000

Anglicanism - 77,000,000 (Some believe in the Real Presence, some do not)

Those that reject the Real Presence
Protestantism (mainline) - 590,000,000
Pentacostalism - 105,000,000
Non-Trinitarian - 28,500,000
Restorationaism - 18,000,000

Total - 741,500,000

Total number of Christians - 2,235,500,000
Percentage of those that believe in the Real Presence - 63.38%
Percentage of those that reject the Real Presence - 33.17%
Percentage of Anglicans - 3.44%

Now, of course, I realize that this says nothing about whether the belief is actually true or not, but is a powerful indication of what the MAJORITY of Christians believe.

Don’t forget the Lutherans. They have a different theology but they also believe in a form of the Real Presence.