Is the holy fire a miracle?

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Before anyone tells me this question has already been answered i see that but the answer that is given isn’t satisfactory to me. i have been doing some research on this and found out that in 1235 pope gregory IX called this a fraud. Im wondering if he said this because at the time the catholic and orthodox churches did not get along. My question is has there been anything from the church saying that catholics can’t believe is to be a true miracle? There seems to be some evidence that this is a true miracle given the fact that the fire does not give off any heat and people can touch it without being burnt.
 
bostonboy23 said:
Before anyone tells me this question has already been answered i see that but the answer that is given isn’t satisfactory to me. i have been doing some research on this and found out that in 1235 pope gregory IX called this a fraud. Im wondering if he said this because at the time the catholic and orthodox churches did not get along. My question is has there been anything from the church saying that catholics can’t believe is to be a true miracle? There seems to be some evidence that this is a true miracle given the fact that the fire does not give off any heat and people can touch it without being burnt.
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What is the ‘holy fire’? I found this wiki article
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Fire
Apologies if this is a silly question
 
Todd520 said:
What is the ‘holy fire’? I found this wiki article
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Fire
Apologies if this is a silly question
Click to expand...
it is not well known in the catholic church i had not heard about it before last night. on holy saturday the patriarch of Jerusalem enters the holy seplacur church marches in procession into the tomb of Jesus and waits their praying till fire appears in the tomb then he lights some candles from the fire and brings it out. the fire is special because it gives off no heat and can be in contact with human skin and does not burn. the patriarch is searched before he enters the tomb so he does not bring in a lighter or anything that can start a fire.
 
I heard about this. It’s popular in the Orthodox Church right?

I’d like to know if it’s real too. I’ve heard people say that they’ve seen people put it up to their skin with no problem, but I wasn’t there so I don’t know.
 
Pope Urban II is reported to have said the following in AD 1095:
fordham.edu/halsall/source/urban2-5vers.html

Quote:
“Of holy Jerusalem, brethren, we dare not speak, for we are exceedingly afraid and ashamed to speak of it. This very city, in which, as you all know, Christ Himself suffered for us, because our sins demanded it, has been reduced to the pollution of paganism and, I say it to our disgrace, withdrawn from the service of God. Such is the heap of reproach upon us who have so much deserved it! Who now serves the church of the Blessed Mary in the valley of Josaphat, in which church she herself was buried in body? But why do we pass over the Temple of Solomon, nay of the Lord, in which the barbarous nations placed their idols contrary to law, human and divine? Of the Lord’s Sepulchre we have refrained from speaking, since some of you with your own eyes have seen to what abominations it has been given over. The Turks violently took from it the offerings which you brought there for alms in such vast amounts, and, in addition, they scoffed much and often 'at Your religion. And yet in that place (I say only what you already know) rested the Lord; there He died for us; there He was buried. How precious would be the longed for, incomparable place of the Lord’s burial, even if God failed there to perform the yearly miracle! For in the days of His Passion all the lights in the Sepulchre and round about in the church, which have been extinguished, are relighted by divine command. Whose heart is so stony, brethren, that it is not touched by so great a miracle? Believe me, that man is bestial and senseless whose heart such divinely manifest grace does not move to faith! And yet the Gentiles see this in common with the Christians and are not turned from their ways! They are, indeed, afraid, but they are not converted to the faith; nor is it to be wondered at, for a blindness of mind rules over them. With what afflictions they wronged you who have returned and are now present, you yourselves know too well you who there sacrificed your substance and your blood for God.”
 
trophybearer said:
Pope Urban II is reported to have said the following in AD 1095:
fordham.edu/halsall/source/urban2-5vers.html

Quote:
“Of holy Jerusalem, brethren, we dare not speak, for we are exceedingly afraid and ashamed to speak of it. This very city, in which, as you all know, Christ Himself suffered for us, because our sins demanded it, has been reduced to the pollution of paganism and, I say it to our disgrace, withdrawn from the service of God. Such is the heap of reproach upon us who have so much deserved it! Who now serves the church of the Blessed Mary in the valley of Josaphat, in which church she herself was buried in body? But why do we pass over the Temple of Solomon, nay of the Lord, in which the barbarous nations placed their idols contrary to law, human and divine? Of the Lord’s Sepulchre we have refrained from speaking, since some of you with your own eyes have seen to what abominations it has been given over. The Turks violently took from it the offerings which you brought there for alms in such vast amounts, and, in addition, they scoffed much and often 'at Your religion. And yet in that place (I say only what you already know) rested the Lord; there He died for us; there He was buried. How precious would be the longed for, incomparable place of the Lord’s burial, even if God failed there to perform the yearly miracle! For in the days of His Passion all the lights in the Sepulchre and round about in the church, which have been extinguished, are relighted by divine command. Whose heart is so stony, brethren, that it is not touched by so great a miracle? Believe me, that man is bestial and senseless whose heart such divinely manifest grace does not move to faith! And yet the Gentiles see this in common with the Christians and are not turned from their ways! They are, indeed, afraid, but they are not converted to the faith; nor is it to be wondered at, for a blindness of mind rules over them. With what afflictions they wronged you who have returned and are now present, you yourselves know too well you who there sacrificed your substance and your blood for God.”
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This is the same pope who used the destruction of the Church of the Holy Sepulcher by a crazy caliph to justify the first crusade. - even though that church was rebuilt by the time he called for the first crusade in 1095.

I don’t know how much stock I would put in his opinions

Seeker
 
seeker57 said:
This is the same pope who used the destruction of the Church of the Holy Sepulcher by a crazy caliph to justify the first crusade. - even though that church was rebuilt by the time he called for the first crusade in 1095.

I don’t know how much stock I would put in his opinions

Seeker
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The destruction of the church of the Holy Sepulcher may have been the stated reason, just as for example the invasion of Poland was the formal reason for starting World War II. But in reality the Europeans and the Allies had far more valid reasons for getting involved in the Crusades and World War II.

The following link gives some of the real reasons -

answering-islam.org/Authors/Stenhouse/crusades.01.htm
 
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