Is the Holy Spirit a person?

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mchium said:
Eunuchs were physical people/bodies. The HS is a ‘pure’ spirit. He has no body; hence, no sex. Pure spirits or, more to the point re the HS, God, (except for Jesus’ incarnate body) is pure spirit. He has no sex, no eyes, no hands, no teeth, no body. Bodies have a sex assigned them; pure spirits do not.

Eunuch comparisons are apples and oranges since Eunuchs are not pure spirits
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Jesus has a Body. No?
 
Jesus, the second Person of the Trinity, the Logos, the Father’'s understanding of Himself, has indeed a body, and that body is unique to His person; it is not the body of the Father or of the Holy Spirit. That body suffered and died and was resurrected; the Father and the Holy Spirit did not suffer and die. The Person of the Logos, the Son, was the only person of the Trinity who became incarnate. This manifests the uniqueness of personhood in the Trinity. The old Preface for Sundays made this distinction abundantly clear, as does the Athanasian Creed, a unity in essence without any distinction or difference, yet a distinction in the differentiating of Persons. Please read the Athanasian Creed. and the old Sunday preface (which may still be in use on Trinity Sunday). .
 
johnstown_johnn said:
Would you still refer to a eunuch as “he.?”
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Of course. Would you refer to a eunuch as “it”?

And less you seek to go there, though I don’t know what for or how any of this is relevant to the discussion of the personhood of the Holy Spirit: IMO, a transvestite is still a “he”. And though for societal purpose, I would refer to a man who had a sex change operation as “she”, it would not actually make him a female.
 
mchium said:
Grace Seeker:

One more thing - maybe this will clarify/help. The Catholic Encyclopedia blurb stated that the HS is distinct AS A PERSON (individual) but NOT in essence. …i.e. “Though distinct as a Person, He is one in essence”

Is that where the hang-up is? If so, it remains, then, a disagreement and may be symantics.

There is nothing that violates reason about the fact that 3 individual and unique persons (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) share one and the same divine essense/nature. Nothing whatsoever.
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But are you in making them not just three distinct pesona, but three separate individuals not creating three individual Gods. There oneness is not from being of one essence or nature like all humans have the same (sinful) nature inherited from Adam. Their oneness is from having the same essence or being. As I read what you have written it is almost as if in talking about three individuals you are talking about the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit as three (not one) divine beings.

Surely I am misreading you on that interpretation of your point. So, please, can you show me where it is that you have stopped short of that?
 
Grace_Seeker said:
But are you in making them not just three distinct pesona, but three separate individuals not creating three individual Gods. There oneness is not from being of one essence or nature like all humans have the same (sinful) nature inherited from Adam. Their oneness is from having the same essence or being. As I read what you have written it is almost as if in talking about three individuals you are talking about the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit as three (not one) divine beings.

Surely I am misreading you on that interpretation of your point. So, please, can you show me where it is that you have stopped short of that?
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The word that has to be looked at is “substance”. Jesus and the Holy Spirit share the same “ousias” as the Father; they are consubstantial. A substance is that to whose nature is due what in Latin is called an “esse in se”, a self subsisting existence. In this case the Existence is not only in itself, but also of itself. This identical substance, this same Being, is definitive of deity, and it is a “necessary” Being in the philosophical sense of that word (neither contingent nor impossible) making it absolutely perfect and not subject to change since no further perfection could be added. The finite mind cannot grasp the infinite. We cannot grasp what it means to be infinitely perfect, knowing, etc., except by our own experience of the deprivation of infinity, a negative experience of the absolute and infinite. This is why words are so difficult in speaking of these mysteries. They are ineffable; the best we can do is to shed some light, light that was given to us by Gos’s own revealing of Himself.
 
The great difficulty in this whole thread is that we are trying to speak of things pertaining only to God in the language of men. We are well advised to use those expressions that God Himself uses about Himself, and that means that we should really use very carefully those expressions that the Church recommends to us (“Who hears you hears Me.”). If we can all become conversant with those expressions, we may find dialogue comes easier.
 
  1. Is there only one God?
    Yes, there is only one God.
I am the Lord, and there is none else: there is no God besides me. **(Isaiah 45:5) **
  1. How many Persons are there in God?
In God there are three Divine Persons – the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

Going, therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. **(Matthew 28:19) **
  1. Is the Father God?
The Father is God and the first Person of the Blessed Trinity.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. **(I Corinthians 1:3) **
  1. Is the Son God?
The Son is God and the second Person of the Blessed Trinity.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. **(John 1:1) **
  1. Is the Holy Ghost God?
The Holy Ghost is God and the third Person of the Blessed Trinity.

Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? **(I Corinthians 3:16) **
  1. What do we mean by the Blessed Trinity?
By the Blessed Trinity we mean, one and the same God in three Divine Persons.

Going, therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. **(Matthew 28:19) **
  1. Are the three Divine Persons really distinct from one another?
The three Divine Persons are really distinct from one another.

And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape, as a dove, upon him. And a voice came from heaven: “Thou art my beloved Son. In thee I am well pleased.” **(Luke 3:22) **
  1. Are the three Divine Persons perfectly equal to one another?
The three Divine Persons are perfectly equal to one another, because all are one and the same God.

I and the Father are one. **(John 10:30) **
  1. How are the three Divine Persons, though really distinct from one another, one and the same God?
The three Divine Persons, though really distinct from one another, are one and the same God because all have one and the same Divine nature.
  1. Can we fully understand how the three Divine Persons, though really distinct from one another, are one and the same God?
We cannot fully understand how the three Divine Persons, though really distinct from one another, are one and the same God because this is a supernatural mystery.
  1. What is a supernatural mystery?
A supernatural mystery is a truth which we cannot fully understand, but which we firmly believe because we have God’s word for it.
 
johnstown_johnn said:
The above says it all.

Thank you.
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So, I can throw away all the books I have that have the writing of Church Fathers like Athanasius and the rest now that I have the above and "the above says it ALL". Thank you for all of the space you have just cleaned up for me on my bookshelf.
 
paarsurrey said:
Hi
As angels (Holy Spirit including) have no will of there own, they are not persons, nevertheless they cannot do anything except good, as per scheme of life by GodAllahYHWH.

Satan/Devil was never an angel, he also has no will of his own, devil is also not a person. Satan has been created by GodAllahYHWH as he has created angles. Devil cannot do anything except evil, as per scheme of life by GodAllahYHWH.
This is my opinion, others could differ with me with rational and reasonable arguments only.
Thanks
Please don’t mind. I have given some concepts from Quran, just for comparison to bridge the gaps between Christians and Muslims for peace and unity.

You might like to read
alislam.org/books/
Introduction to the Study of The Holy Quran (English)
The Official Website of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community
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Then why does God charge angels with error?

Job 4:18b (New American Standard Bible)
And against His angels He charges error.
 
I don’t know, nor can your question be answered until more is explain in ‘the truth setting us free’ mentioned by Christ. Christ himself didn’t describe The Holy Spirit in all consuming detail, but simply left it as helping his followers remember precisely what to write in the gospels. I am not even positive if ‘The Helper’ he mentioned was The Holy Spirit, because when he mentions it specifically, it isn’t directly tied to The Holy Spirit, though most Christian faiths have assumed the connection between The Helper and The Holy Spirit. The most imposing thing Christ mentions about The Holy Spirit, is that blasphemy against is unforgivable, which is surely the most mysterious of enigmas considering that The Holy Spirit itself wasn’t confined to any compacting definition; Therefore it is almost reasonable to assume you can’t curse it, as no one knows precisely what it is. And with the ‘truth being revealed’ as Christ promises us to set us free, perhaps those who curse it, and fully understand it will, in the end, remain unforgiven.
 
Daniel_Marsh said:
Then why does God charge angels with error?

Job 4:18b (New American Standard Bible)
Code: 
     And against His angels He charges error.
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Don’t you read the papers? The Angels are on strike. Their demands include a dollar an hour pay raise, better medical care, and free will.😛
 
Both of you, Daniel Marsh, and the die hard rightest vern humphrey, should read what the Buddha wrote about the ‘decay of angels’. 😉
 
Clovis said:
Both of you, Daniel Marsh, and the die hard rightest vern humphrey, should read what the Buddha wrote about the ‘decay of angels’. 😉
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I know what he wrote. Who do you think corrected his spelling?😉
 
vern_humphrey said:
I know what he wrote. Who do you think corrected his spelling?😉
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? ? ?

I GET IT IT YOU WERE BEING EITHER POMPOUS ABOUT MY POOR SPELLING, OR BOASTING ABOUT YOUR KNOWLEDGE THAT THE BUDDHA NEVER WROTE ANY WORDS, JUST AS CHRIST, ONLY TAUGHT. I ADMITT. I’M AN IMBECILE, BUT THAT DOEN’T MEAN YOU MUST PUT THE CARROT ON THE STICK IN FRONT OF MY NOSE. THERE ISN’T ANY DECENCY LEFT IN THIS WORLD! :mad:
 
Before God created Adam and Eve, the first humans, He had only angels in His company. There were no saints yet, no other life forms other than angels.

Lucifer (aka Satan) was the chief of all the angels in Heaven; he stood at God’s throne. Translated “Lucifer” means “LightBearer.”

Through an act of pride Lucifer was summoned to pay hommage to God’s Son in his yet-to-be human form. Lucifer rebelled because heis pride did not allow for subjection to a human being.

Lucifer had followers with the same false pride.

God summoned one of his lower (in status) angels, Michael, to banish Satan and his rebellious followers. Michael, along with his accompaniment of archangels drove Lucifer out of Heaven and Lucifer and his band fell down to Earth.

The Holy Spirit has taken many forms in bible history and some theologians believe it was the Holy Spirit that appearted as the “Burning Bush” on Mount Sinai to Moses.

In our Creed we recite a reference to the Holy Spirit…",He has spoken to the prophets…"

With that in mind, the Holy Spirit has manifested Himself many, many times.

It raise the question: Just what is the basic form/configuration is the Holy Spirit? What does He look like when seen in His actual eternal countenance?

I cannot answer that myself but I have an idea.

I believe the Holy Spirit as seen in the Unity of the Father and the Son resembles both the Father and the Son.

That’s just my take.🙂
 
postwriter said:
The Holy Bible refers to The Holy Spirit as a He. The Holy Spirit is a He simply because The Holy Spirit is masculine spirit. The Holy Spirit is, but not limited to, the following: a molder and sculpter into that which inherits eternal life…(a retainer of the saved)…a disciplinarian…a Divine Spirit that has a personality, however, The Holy Spirit is not a person.
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In my humble opinion the personal characteristics of the Holy Spirit shown in scripture is the same as the Father’s characteristics. If the Holy Spirit is God’s Spirit then it cannot be separate from God’s person.
 
Clovis said:
I don’t know, nor can your question be answered until more is explain in ‘the truth setting us free’ mentioned by Christ. Christ himself didn’t describe The Holy Spirit in all consuming detail, but simply left it as helping his followers remember precisely what to write in the gospels. I am not even positive if ‘The Helper’ he mentioned was The Holy Spirit, because when he mentions it specifically, it isn’t directly tied to The Holy Spirit, though most Christian faiths have assumed the connection between The Helper and The Holy Spirit. The most imposing thing Christ mentions about The Holy Spirit, is that blasphemy against is unforgivable, which is surely the most mysterious of enigmas considering that The Holy Spirit itself wasn’t confined to any compacting definition; Therefore it is almost reasonable to assume you can’t curse it, as no one knows precisely what it is. And with the ‘truth being revealed’ as Christ promises us to set us free, perhaps those who curse it, and fully understand it will, in the end, remain unforgiven.
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We do know the Helper is the Holy Spirit.

NAB
John 14:26 The Advocate, the holy Spirit that the Father will send in my name–he will teach you everything and remind you of all that (I) told you.

DR
John 14:26 But the Paraclete, the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring all things to your mind, whatsoever I shall have said to you.

Yes we know what the unforgivable sin is. Read the CCC.

CCC 1864 “Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.” There are no limits to the mercy of God, but anyone who deliberately refuses to accept his mercy by repenting, rejects the forgiveness of his sins and the salvation offered by the Holy Spirit. Such hardness of heart can lead to final impenitence and eternal loss.
 
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