Is the Holy Spirit for all Christians? or only

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SolaChristo

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for the original apostles?

I ask this because another poster brought this issue up in another thread Ill copy and paste here. I thought this point deserved its own thread:

**Aaaahhhh, Dorreen. Sola has made a humongous leap of judgment in his/her interpretation of John 16:13, where Jesus promises to send the Holy Spirit to guide the Apostles into all the truth.

Sola says: Jesus gave each of us a promise that promise is that once He left then the Holy Spirit would be sent.

In that passage, Jesus is addressing only the eleven – nobody else is in the room.

This does not mean the we “normal Joes” do not receive the Holy Spirit for guidance but that the Holy Spirit will be sent to the eleven for their particular charism (special grace) of preaching and teaching. Paul delineates the various gifts of the Spirit, including the gift of “apostles.” He clearly recognizes a distinction in the charism for the apostolic office, which, I pointed out earlier in regards to the Magisterium, includes teaching.

Definitive teaching on Scripture must rest upon some court of last appeal when there are difficulties. Otherwise, it just boils down to:

My Holy Spirit can beat up your Holy Spirit!

Not!

Can too!

Your mother wears combat boots!
Benedicite **
 
Are there others that agree with this poster?
Am I understanding her correctly?
 
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RyanL:
I don’t know about the rest of this, but this statement is most definitely true! See Gen 3:15 (DR-1899):

http://www.crossroadsinitiative.com/pics/content_img.332.img.jpg

Sorry…back to topic…

God Bless,
RyanL
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But they are really really good combat boots 😉
 
If I read the poster correctly, he is not saying that only the Apostles received the Holy Spirit, but that only they received the particular charisms of the Holy Spirit that pertain to the apostolic office – preaching and teaching.

That particular charism was given to St. Paul as well, it seems, when he was elected by God to preach Jesus to the gentiles.

So, while we all receive the Holy Spirit – without which we cannot be saved – not everyone receives the same spiritual gifts (charisms).

This is responding to, I imagine, someone else’s argument that since we all receive the Holy Spirit, as the Apostles did, we all have the ability to interpret scripture rightly through that same Holy Spirit.

Hope this helps.

Peace,
javelin
 
Jeremiah 31:34
No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest," declares the LORD. “For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more.”

Hebrews 8:11
No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest.

How do you all understand these passages?
 
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SolaChristo:
Are there others that agree with this poster?
Am I understanding her correctly?
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Javelin summarized it. You seem to be setting up an artificial dichotomy: Either only the Apostles receive the Holy Spirit or all Christians receive the Holy Spirit. Your question poses the possibility that the Holy Spirit, privately received by any single individual, might contradict the Apostolic deposit and carry more weight than the Apostolic teaching.

In Acts, 2:42, the new converts “devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and fellowship.”

Scripture is clear. The charisms are various but the truth is one and it is to be found in communion with the Apostles.
 
I have many Protestant friends who assure me that when they come to a difficult verse that they pray to the Holy Spirit and viola’ they suddenly understand the meaning. They seem completely oblivious to the fact that many others are doing the same thing and coming to completely opposite conclusions.

Except for this thread, I never point out the obvious inconsistency with this belief. What if I ruined someone’s faith in Jesus, because I pointed out that people who interpret the bible differently all strongly believe that the Holy Spirit is working through them?
Beyond the mydriad theological denominations this creates, there is the problem with the person who doesn’t suddenly get clarity about a certain verse. Does the person suddenly have to doubt their salvation experience because they can’t interpret a verse that they have prayed to understand?
 
Daniel Marsh:
Jeremiah 31:34
No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest," declares the LORD. “For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more.”

Hebrews 8:11
No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest.

How do you all understand these passages?
Click to expand...
Back atcha.

How do you reconcile these passages with those passages clearly indicating that there is such a thing as apostolic teaching?

How do you discern when an individual interpretation of Scripture, claimed to be “from the Holy Spirit” is authentic? How do you ‘test the spirit?’
 
I failed to respond accurately to the original question. Sola is asking whether the charism of the Holy Spirit is “only for the original apostles.”

Nowhere did I indicate that the charism of the Holy Spirit forf teaching and preaching was limited only to the original apostles. Clearly, in the New Testament the Apostles lay hands on those who are commissioned to follow them. To this very day our visible sign of the handing on of the charism of the Holy Spirit is the laying on of hands.

The Apostolic charism (y’know: guiding you into all the truth) succeeds to those who legitimately follow in the line of Apostolic succession.
 
Daniel Marsh:
Jeremiah 31:34
No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest," declares the LORD. “For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more.”

Hebrews 8:11
No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest.

How do you all understand these passages?
Click to expand...
I was reading the Jeremiah verse just last night.
I have come to conclude that these verses mean that no one should teach anyone else. In fact, please dont actually learn anything from what Im saying otherwise I would be guilty of distrusting gods promise. The Apostles were mistaken when they “preached” to others. Pastors to this very day are dishonoring God by “teaching” from the pulpit. Their words only serve as a witness to their true lack of faith in God’s own word. Singing is OK, but preaching is a sin agains God. Furthermore, when Christ said, “Go therefore, and make disciples of all nations…teaching them…” he didn’t mean to actually teach them something, he meant “Go and teach them that they don’t need to be taught!” It is all very clear to me how the Sciptures have been distorted by some and I am grateful that I hold the truth. Its also comforting to know that there are others such as yourself who have been to this same Truth indepently - it is reaffirming.
Its either all of that, or maybe it simply means that all will know God in an undisclosed way which they didn’t know through the old covenant, and that it doesnt actually apply to TEACHING and INFALLIBLY determining what Scripture means in every situation. If that were true, then preaching is still OK and everything else I said in the first paragraph is pure nonsense.
what do you think the verses mean Daniel Marsh?

Phil
 
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mercygate:
Sola is asking whether the charism of the Holy Spirit is “only for the original apostles.”
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The Holy Spirit isn’t a charism, the Holy Spirit is God, the third person of the Trinity.
 
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Matt16_18:
The Holy Spirit isn’t a charism, the Holy Spirit is God, the third person of the Trinity.
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What are you saying? The Holy Spirit is the “charismator.” There are different “gifts” of the Spirit.
 
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mercygate:
What are you saying? The Holy Spirit is the “charismator.” There are different “gifts” of the Spirit.
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I am saying the gifts are not the same thing as the gift giver.

There is only one Spirit. All members of the Body of Christ share the same Spirit, but not all members of the Body of Christ are given the same charismatic gifts of the Holy Spirit. Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit …

To one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. All these are inspired by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills.

Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it. And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, then healers, helpers, administrators, speakers in various kinds of tongues. Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?

1Corinthians chapter 12
 
You two both agree. You both have the same view. You just misunderstood one another at first and now you are just arguing over words. Don’t do that!

😛
 
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Lazerlike42:
You two both agree. You both have the same view. You just misunderstood one another at first and now you are just arguing over words. Don’t do that!

😛
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Benedicite keeps using the phrase “the charism of the Holy Spirit”, as if the Holy Spirit is a charism itself – e.g. post # 11, “To this very day our visible sign of the handing on of the charism of the Holy Spirit is the laying on of hands.”

I am only trying to figure out what Benedicite means by the phrase “the charism of the Holy Spirit”.
 
The Holy Spirit is for all Christians and those non-Christians that God deems to share the Holy Spirit with. Many Jews in the old testiment where gifted by the Holy Spirit.
 
Jeremiah 31:34
No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest," declares the LORD. “For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more.”
Click to expand...
Hebrews 8:11
No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest.
Click to expand...
Well Sola and DM (if that is your reading as well) you convinced me, so I removed the following from sacred scripture, or is it better to remove the whole books sinse it means they were not inspired in the first place. I want to make sure we all have the same Holy Scripure as you so I can conform to the true church of Christ.

Are there any I missed or can you suggest a few more I should remove? Which Bible version should I be using? I know the KJV has this corruption in it as well. I know the Gospel of Thomas isn’t corrupted with this stuff.

*Mal 2:7: For the lips of a priest should guard knowledge, and men should seek instruction from his mouth, for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts.

Eph 2:20: built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone,

Eph 4:11: And his gifts were that some should be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers, 12: to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ,

1Cor 12:28: And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, then healers, helpers, administrators, speakers in various kinds of tongues. 29: Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles?

Acts 1:20: For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation become desolate, and let there be no one to live in it'; and His office let another take.’

Acts 1:25: to take the place in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside, to go to his own place." 26: And they cast lots for them, and the lot fell on Matthi’as; and he was enrolled with the eleven apostles.

1 Tim 3:1: The saying is sure: If any one aspires to the office of bishop, he desires a noble task.

1 Tim 3:8: Deacons likewise must be serious, not double-tongued, not addicted to much wine, not greedy for gain;

1 Tim 5:7: Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching;

1 Tim 4:14: Do not neglect the gift you have, which was given you by prophetic utterance when the council of elders laid their hands upon you.

1 Tim 5:22: Do not be hasty in the laying on of hands, nor participate in another man’s sins; keep yourself pure.

Acts 14:23 And when they had appointed elders for them in every church, with prayer and fasting they committed them to the Lord in whom they believed.

Tit 1:5: This is why I left you in Crete, that you might amend what was defective, and appoint elders in every town as I directed you,*

I can’t believe scripture became this corrupted with this stuff.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
 
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