Is the Holy Spirit for all Christians? or only

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Oops almost forgot, When an evangelical comes up to me and asks me “Are you saved” and tries to quote scripture to me, should I correct him about trying to teach me? Or would that be wrong because by quoting the above passage to him I would be guilty of teaching him?

I mean it’s rather obvious they don’t “Know the Lord” or they wouldn’t be trying to teach me.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
 
*John 13:3: You call me Teacher and Lord; and you are right, for so I am.14: If I then, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another’s feet.

John 16:16: Jesus said to her, “Mary.” She turned and said to him in Hebrew, “Rab-bo’ni!” (which means Teacher).

Mt 28:19: Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20: teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age." *

Sinse God sends the Holy Spirit and He is the teacher, I figured I should remove these as well, they are obviously false. Can you think of any more offhand?

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
 
Nicene said:
*John 13:3: You call me Teacher and Lord; and you are right, for so I am.14: If I then, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another’s feet. *

John 16:16: Jesus said to her, “Mary.” She turned and said to him in Hebrew, “Rab-bo’ni!” (which means Teacher).

Sinse God sends the Holy Spirit and He is the teacher, I figured I should remove these as well, they are obviously false. Can you think of any more offhand?

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
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Well, since it’s JESUS, speaking here and he gets special consideration, and these quotes are BEFORE the resurrection, maybe you should leave them in.

Anyway, that’s what the Holy Spirit told ME, and MY Holy Spirit can beat up YOUR Holy Spirit any day of the week blindfolded and with one hand tied behind his back. So THERE!
 
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mercygate:
Well, since it’s JESUS, speaking here and he gets special consideration, and these quotes are BEFORE the resurrection, maybe you should leave them in.

Anyway, that’s what the Holy Spirit told ME, and MY Holy Spirit can beat up YOUR Holy Spirit any day of the week blindfolded and with one hand tied behind his back. So THERE!
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My bad, I copied this one wrong in verse number, it’s after the resurrection, it is Chapter 20:

John 20:16: Jesus said to her, “Mary.” She turned and said to him in Hebrew, “Rab-bo’ni!” (which means Teacher)

Remove it you think? The pages are kinda piling up on my floor.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
 
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Nicene:
My bad, I copied this one wrong in verse number, it’s after the resurrection, it is Chapter 20:

John 20:16: Jesus said to her, “Mary.” She turned and said to him in Hebrew, “Rab-bo’ni!” (which means Teacher)

Remove it you think? The pages are kinda piling up on my floor.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
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Ah. You are right. What was I thinking? Did the Holy Spirit goof when I precipitously claimed this was before the Resurrection. No. I was under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit when I said that was before the resurrection, so yeah. Better leave that page in. I mean, no. Take it out. Or. Um. Where were we?
 
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Nicene:
My bad, I copied this one wrong in verse number, it’s after the resurrection, it is Chapter 20:

John 20:16: Jesus said to her, “Mary.” She turned and said to him in Hebrew, “Rab-bo’ni!” (which means Teacher)

Remove it you think? The pages are kinda piling up on my floor.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
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I just deleted my last two posts. Sarcasm (Greek for flesh-tearing) does not become the subject.
 
I just deleted my last two posts. Sarcasm (Greek for flesh-tearing) does not become the subject.
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Normatively I agree with you. However there does come a point (Christ used excessive Hyperbole as well, call no man Teacher, Rabbi etc.) at which it is the only way to drive home a point.

When we take scripture that has the effect of nullifying other scripture that is the point at which we must say we are wrong. Scripture is cohesive and organic, not isolated.

If our interpretation diminishes or altogether eliminates the possibility of other scripture being right as well, then we are wrong and need to put more thought into it.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
 
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Nicene:
Normatively I agree with you. However there does come a point (Christ used excessive Hyperbole as well, call no man Teacher, Rabbi etc.) at which it is the only way to drive home a point.

When we take scripture that has the effect of nullifying other scripture that is the point at which we must say we are wrong. Scripture is cohesive and organic, not isolated.

If our interpretation diminishes or altogether eliminates the possibility of other scripture being right as well, then we are wrong and need to put more thought into it.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
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Right. The point is to determine which is the “dominant” text to which the “lesser” texts must be reconciled, not to verse fling. One gets the impression that some people read Scripture verse-by-verse, keeping them on filing cards in a box, and then drag them up to use like spit-balls.

The responsible approach to scripture is to observe the entire mosaic, not just to pick out one tile at a time, as if it were independent of the greater picture.
 
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Matt16_18:
I am saying the gifts are not the same thing as the gift giver.

There is only one Spirit. All members of the Body of Christ share the same Spirit, but not all members of the Body of Christ are given the same charismatic gifts of the Holy Spirit.
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No, the gifts are not the giver, but if you have the giver, you have the gifts too. Any Christian in full communion can prophecy, teach, preach, heal, speak in tounges, interpret tounges – Yada Yada Yada. He can walk across his swimming pool and raise his dead grandfather. The only reason that almost nobody does is that they don’t have enough faith. A mustard seed worth.

I suspect that the Pentecost was a visit by the Holy Spirit that took hold of the Eleven and by doing so expanded their faith and removed any lingering doubt. My guess is that the experience Paul had on his way to Damascus was similar. The three days of blindness stands for the three days that the Eleven were blind while the Light of the World was in his tomb. That is what made him an apostle and not just another ordinary convert.
 
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javelin:
If I read the poster correctly, he is not saying that only the Apostles received the Holy Spirit, but that only they received the particular charisms of the Holy Spirit that pertain to the apostolic office – preaching and teaching.

That particular charism was given to St. Paul as well, it seems, when he was elected by God to preach Jesus to the gentiles.

So, while we all receive the Holy Spirit – without which we cannot be saved – not everyone receives the same spiritual gifts (charisms).

This is responding to, I imagine, someone else’s argument that since we all receive the Holy Spirit, as the Apostles did, we all have the ability to interpret scripture rightly through that same Holy Spirit.

Hope this helps.

Peace,
javelin
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OK I did misunderstand what was said.
I see how arrived at conclusion but do not agree. This explaination
does clear up my initial confusion in regards to this.
 
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mercygate:
So, Sola,

What does Ephesians 4:11 mean to you?
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I do not dispute that some are apostles some prophets some evangelists some pastors some teachers.
 
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mercygate:
Javelin summarized it. You seem to be setting up an artificial dichotomy: Either only the Apostles receive the Holy Spirit or all Christians receive the Holy Spirit. Your question poses the possibility that the Holy Spirit, privately received by any single individual, might contradict the Apostolic deposit and carry more weight than the Apostolic teaching.

In Acts, 2:42, the new converts “devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and fellowship.”

Scripture is clear. The charisms are various but the truth is one and it is to be found in communion with the Apostles.
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Yes, we would say, that the giftings are different. However you have not really answered Jer 31:33 and Heb 8:11.
these passages indicate that the New Covenant is that each of us will be instructed and to know God in an inimate way. Im not saying we all have the same giftings. I am saying that we all have this gift.
 
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deb1:
I have many Protestant friends who assure me that when they come to a difficult verse that they pray to the Holy Spirit and viola’ they suddenly understand the meaning. They seem completely oblivious to the fact that many others are doing the same thing and coming to completely opposite conclusions.

Except for this thread, I never point out the obvious inconsistency with this belief. What if I ruined someone’s faith in Jesus, because I pointed out that people who interpret the bible differently all strongly believe that the Holy Spirit is working through them?
Beyond the mydriad theological denominations this creates, there is the problem with the person who doesn’t suddenly get clarity about a certain verse. Does the person suddenly have to doubt their salvation experience because they can’t interpret a verse that they have prayed to understand?
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Can not God use a passage in the bible to say one thing to you and another to me?
Dont get me wrong Im not talking doctrine Im talking how God wants us to respond to His leading differently.
 
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mercygate:
I failed to respond accurately to the original question. Sola is asking whether the charism of the Holy Spirit is “only for the original apostles.”

Nowhere did I indicate that the charism of the Holy Spirit forf teaching and preaching was limited only to the original apostles. Clearly, in the New Testament the Apostles lay hands on those who are commissioned to follow them. To this very day our visible sign of the handing on of the charism of the Holy Spirit is the laying on of hands.

The Apostolic charism (y’know: guiding you into all the truth) succeeds to those who legitimately follow in the line of Apostolic succession.
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I better now understand what you are saying. Let me throw this into the ring. We have no assurance that only the twelve were at the Last Supper. In fact we have good reason to believe that there were others ----was Jesus only speaking to the twelve?
When Jesus spoke “The Great Commision” he was speaking to His apostles. Was that for only them and not us also? What is different about these two that one would only be for them and one not.
 
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Philthy:
I was reading the Jeremiah verse just last night.
I have come to conclude that these verses mean that no one should teach anyone else. In fact, please dont actually learn anything from what Im saying otherwise I would be guilty of distrusting gods promise. The Apostles were mistaken when they “preached” to others. Pastors to this very day are dishonoring God by “teaching” from the pulpit. Their words only serve as a witness to their true lack of faith in God’s own word. Singing is OK, but preaching is a sin agains God. Furthermore, when Christ said, “Go therefore, and make disciples of all nations…teaching them…” he didn’t mean to actually teach them something, he meant “Go and teach them that they don’t need to be taught!” It is all very clear to me how the Sciptures have been distorted by some and I am grateful that I hold the truth. Its also comforting to know that there are others such as yourself who have been to this same Truth indepently - it is reaffirming.
Its either all of that, or maybe it simply means that all will know God in an undisclosed way which they didn’t know through the old covenant, and that it doesnt actually apply to TEACHING and INFALLIBLY determining what Scripture means in every situation. If that were true, then preaching is still OK and everything else I said in the first paragraph is pure nonsense.
what do you think the verses mean Daniel Marsh?

Phil
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So maybe since they really dont fit we ought to do a Thomas Jefferson and just cut them out. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
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mercygate:
Right. The point is to determine which is the “dominant” text to which the “lesser” texts must be reconciled, not to verse fling. One gets the impression that some people read Scripture verse-by-verse, keeping them on filing cards in a box, and then drag them up to use like spit-balls.

The responsible approach to scripture is to observe the entire mosaic, not just to pick out one tile at a time, as if it were independent of the greater picture.
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The forst rule of interpreting scripture is to interpret scripture by scripture.
 
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SolaChristo:
I better now understand what you are saying. Let me throw this into the ring. We have no assurance that only the twelve were at the Last Supper. In fact we have good reason to believe that there were others ----was Jesus only speaking to the twelve?
When Jesus spoke “The Great Commision” he was speaking to His apostles. Was that for only them and not us also? What is different about these two that one would only be for them and one not.
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When did the idea that others were present at the Last Supper first appear in history?

What I am contending is that where the eleven are NOT, we cannot trust the teaching. Where communion with the eleven and their teaching is broken, the teaching may not be false, but it is not trustworthy.
 
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mercygate:
Right. The point is to determine which is the “dominant” text to which the “lesser” texts must be reconciled, not to verse fling. One gets the impression that some people read Scripture verse-by-verse, keeping them on filing cards in a box, and then drag them up to use like spit-balls.

The responsible approach to scripture is to observe the entire mosaic, not just to pick out one tile at a time, as if it were independent of the greater picture.
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Actually you aren’t off at all but hit the nail on the head. In the woes Christ admonishes the Pharisees for doing just that. Phylacteries were little boxes you tied to your head that had scripture in them.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
 
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SolaChristo:
I better now understand what you are saying. Let me throw this into the ring. We have no assurance that only the twelve were at the Last Supper. In fact we have good reason to believe that there were others ----was Jesus only speaking to the twelve?
When Jesus spoke “The Great Commision” he was speaking to His apostles. Was that for only them and not us also? What is different about these two that one would only be for them and one not.
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Actually in Luke 22:14 the group around the passover table is specified: And when the hour came, he sat at table, and the apostles with him.
 
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