Is the incarnation Idolatrous?

[RiderOnTheClouds]

A common objection to Christianity from many Rabbis is that the incarnation gives God a human form, so constitutes idolatry. For this reason I am tempted to defect from an Orthodox Christology to Nestorianism, since that does not suffer from the issue quite so much.

What would you say in response?

 

[adamhovey1988]

I think that actually sounds like a common Islamic arguments against Christianity. I don’t see why God becoming man would be idolatrous, God wants himself to be worshipped, and if he wants to show people himself by becoming man, he can do that. I think it’s important to remember though, that when God became man, he did not undergo change, he did not stop being God. By the way, I hope you know that Nestorians do in fact worship Jesus.

 

[RolandThompsonGunner]

Do Nestorians still exist? I thought that died out centuries ago.

 

[Bithynian]

Do Nestorians still exist? I thought that died out centuries ago.

They still exist. Their main community is the Assyrian Church of the East. They generally avoid using the term Nestorian since it conjures up all sorts of misconceptions about their present-day Christological stances. In general, they’re closer to present day orthodox Christology than 5th century Nestorianism. Pope JP II and their Patriarch (whose name I’ve forgot!) even co-signed a common statement on Christology in the 90s.

 

[dscath]

many Rabbis is that the incarnation gives God a human form, so constitutes idolatry.

You might be misunderstanding

This claim makes no sense…no Jewish Rabbi views Jesus as God, so that would stop that argument cold…but for the sake of argument, let’s say they did view Jesus as God…why would his incarnation be viewed as idolatry given the fact that Abraham was visited by God as one of the three visitors in Genesis 18?

 

[Genesis315]

Nestorianism seems like it would actually create this problem, by making Christ a creature (the divinity remaining distinct or being assumed by the humanity). They get it backwards.

On the other hand, we say of the Divine Word “What he was, he remained and what he was not, he assumed.” We believe Christ’s humanity has no other subject than the divine person of the Son of God, who assumed it and made it his own, from his conception.

 

[stpurl]

None of the heresies ever die; they bide their time and give themselves new names.

 

[christismylord]

John 1:14 “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”

Here it says that the Word was made flesh and that this same Word was begotten of the Father…Christ is God in human flesh

Hebrews 2:14-15 “ 14 Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil—15 and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death. 16 For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham’s descendants. 17 For this reason he had to be made like them, fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people.

It’s pretty clear that Christ (God Himself) shared in our humanity. If only the “human“ died on the cross, there is no sacrifice. Therefore, we say communion is the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Christ.

2 Peter 2:24 “He himself bore our sins” in his body on the cross, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; “by his wounds you have been healed.”

Again, Christ (God) Himself bore our sins in His body.

Notice that Jesus says, before His agony in the garden, in Matthew 26:40-41 “ Then he returned to his disciples and found them sleeping. “Couldn’t you men keep watch with me for one hour?” he asked Peter. 41 “Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.”

So His spirit was prepared to suffer but His human flesh dreaded the pain. This is clear that His spirit and divinity suffered as well. Otherwise why would His spirit be “willing” for something it would not do?

1 Timothy 3:16 “And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.“

1 John 4:2-3 “This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.”

 

[adamhovey1988]

Assyrian Church of the East, though I would not call their modern theology Nestorian.

 

[Dan_Defender]

My response would be that you are many centuries late. This issue was debated in the early Church and the Truth prevailed. And by the way, Nestorius himself after the Council of Ephesus retired to a monastery, professed his orthodoxy and died in communion with the Church.

 

[VeryBlessed]

Presumably these rabbis are not believers in Jesus? I’m a little surprised you would take a non-believer’s viewpoint as motivation to make some significant change in your belief system, especially when the magisterium says otherwise.

Today’s gospel from John 14 says this: “Whoever has seen me has seen the Father.
How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me?“

How can it be idolatry if the one you are worshipping is ONE with the Father? Perhaps these rabbis had already rejected the concept of Jesus being one with the Father.

 

[TULIPed]

A common objection to Christianity from many Rabbis is that the incarnation gives God a human form, so constitutes idolatry.

I’d be curious to know to which branch of Judaism the rabbis you’re referring to are associated.

I’m also curious as to how they’d interpret this little gem from Genesis 32:

"24 So Jacob was left alone, and a man wrestled with him till daybreak. 25 When the man saw that he could not overpower him, he touched the socket of Jacob’s hip so that his hip was wrenched as he wrestled with the man. 26 Then the man said, “Let me go, for it is daybreak.”

But Jacob replied, “I will not let you go unless you bless me.”

27 The man asked him, “What is your name?”

“Jacob,” he answered.

28 Then the man said, “Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel, because you have struggled with God and with humans and have overcome.”

29 Jacob said, “Please tell me your name.”

But he replied, “Why do you ask my name?” Then he blessed him there.

30 So Jacob called the place Peniel, saying, “It is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared.”

 

[porthos11]

So let me get this straight.

You put stock in some rabbinic opinion, which carries no weight or authority for Christians, and then want to defect to a heresy that actually compromises our salvation?