G
goout
Guest
You claim I am imposing my morality.
I am proposing just the opposite, that morality does not belong to me or anyone else.
That morality has an objective source and foundation, and makes claims about truth.
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I am proposing just the opposite, that morality does not belong to me or anyone else.
That morality has an objective source and foundation, and makes claims about truth.
C
Charlemagne_III
Guest
And if it doesn’t make such claims, what good is morality at all?
We are finding this out today in the common question: “Who am I to judge.”
As if we were not given a brain to weigh and evaluate and distinguish moral acts from immoral ones.
This is the modern laziness that has infected modern morality.
Easier to not judge than to do the heavy lifting of distinguishing between good and evil and doling out the proper treatment for each.
Or as Benedict XVI put it, the “dictatorship of relativism.”
E
edwest2
Guest
Pope Benedict, with commentary from the Practical Catholic.
The Holy Father says:
How true this is. Where there is no communication, no culture, no shared experience, there is no society; because there is no people. There remains only a vast and foreboding, unforgiving sea of individuals ready to crash upon each other and the world with the slightest wind. Without a common basis, we have not the vaulted pluralism we’re taught to embrace, but Babel, in all the confusion and madness of a society with no binding forces. Already we are seeing the tensions of this fragmentation breaking out across cultures.
Without common values and truths, such as in the socieites we find ourselves in, we find the fabric of society torn like Joseph’s cloak, by a great many tribes which would like to lay claim to the title of favored. Leftists, conservatives, anarchists, nihilists, secularists, objectivists, the shallow, the entertainers, the entertained, all vying for control against each other. Tribalism can indeed spawn differentiation, but without some common ground, and in the face of increasing jargon not only in the academies but in the cultures; we shall be left with madness. In the end this tribalism can only result in the decline of all their claims, and the alienation of one from the other. Babel is the happenstance when society tries to become God.
Pope Benedict XVI goes on to say:
Ed
The Holy Father says:
Code:
"If we cannot have common values, common truths, sufficient communication on the essentials of human life–how to live how to respond to the great challenges of human life–then true society becomes impossible."Without common values and truths, such as in the socieites we find ourselves in, we find the fabric of society torn like Joseph’s cloak, by a great many tribes which would like to lay claim to the title of favored. Leftists, conservatives, anarchists, nihilists, secularists, objectivists, the shallow, the entertainers, the entertained, all vying for control against each other. Tribalism can indeed spawn differentiation, but without some common ground, and in the face of increasing jargon not only in the academies but in the cultures; we shall be left with madness. In the end this tribalism can only result in the decline of all their claims, and the alienation of one from the other. Babel is the happenstance when society tries to become God.
Pope Benedict XVI goes on to say:
Code:
"We are moving toward a dictatorship of relativism which does not recognize anything as for certain and which has as its highest goal one’s own ego and one’s own desires. The church must defend itself against threats such as “radical individualism” and “vague religious mysticism”. [emphasis added]
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Charlemagne_III
Guest
Thanks for the citation. Couldn’t have said it better myself!
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Vera_Ljuba
Guest
You keep misrepresenting me. I said nothing about “value”. I only talk about love and compassion. If you allow humans linger on in useless and horrible pain, then your “compassion” is zero, so you have no right to speak of love.
Of course I would not wish upon you the pain that some unfortunate people are forced to endure, but it would do you a world of good to experience it for a short time. Maybe then you would learn what real compassion is all about. Contrary to what some people say, there is a level of pain that cannot be alleviated by drugs, and people DO want a painless death by expressly asking for euthanasia.
You would deny it, and thereby condemn them to a miserable existence. Talk about playing God.
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Charlemagne_III
Guest
Right. Only those willing to kill the suffering, as if they were dogs that needed to be put out of their misery, have a right to speak of love.
Let us charge into every hospital terminal ward and start blasting away.
Isaiah 5:20 ►
“Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.”
B
Bradski
Guest
You need a back up if something fails or is not working. What’s failing, Charles? What’s not working? Morality itself?
Maybe it would be a good idea if we worked these things out ourselves. Although I doubt you would accept that as everyone has different ideas on moral matters. It could hardly be called the Absolute Truth if it was a DIY version.
But hang on…
Mmmm. So we can do it ourselves. Which, not surprisingly brings us full circle. How do we know who is right?
P
PRmerger
Guest
I see…incorrect.
True for you, but you also believe it to be true for anyone who evaluates the statement.
Or, you’re trying to persuade others that your statement is true.
Otherwise, it’s like saying “Butter pecan is the best ice cream!”. Now, THAT is a statement of personal opinion which you believe to be true (hypothetically)
NB: Please! We are talking in the abstract here. Not about butter pecan ice cream.
Sure. It is absolutely true that no man should drag his wife around by her hair for burning his breakfast.
That seems pretty straight forward.
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PRmerger
Guest
Absolute statement #70870780
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Charlemagne_III
Guest
We were endowed with a brain to weigh and balance according to what we know to be true
both in the Bible and the teachings of the Church. Obviously, that’s not good enough for you since you don’t believe in God or absolutes (except maybe the absolute that God does not exist and therefore you may invent your own morality with impunity, as many do).
How do we account for the moral anarchy that exists in the world today? We account for it by your own belief (never even proven, just assumed) that there is no reliable standard for true morality other than your own brain. And how’s that working in the world we live in? Not so well, hey? How many people have a brain left now that the Left has destroyed the academies? But nature abhors the proverbial vacuum. Expel God from the public arena and welcome the Devil.
Pervert are just fine with being judged according to the latest politically correct idiocy such as same-sex marriage, etc.
Isaiah 5:20 ►
“Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.”
Peter has already cited the moral Tower of Babble, and Ed cited Benedict XVI.
Nothing seems to register with you.
I expect that if you were kidnapped and torched for being an atheist, it might suddenly occur to you that there are moral absolutes, and the one in particular that you would like to advance is:
“Thou shalt not burn Bradski!”
What say you, Bradski?
E
edwest2
Guest
But, wait a minute. No one can know the truth at all. So, if some person or persons select a random individual for death, it doesn’t matter.We were endowed with a brain to weigh and balance according to what we know to be true
both in the Bible and the teachings of the Church. Obviously, that’s not good enough for you since you don’t believe in God or absolutes (except maybe the absolute that God does not exist and therefore you may invent your own morality with impunity, as many do).
How do we account for the moral anarchy that exists in the world today? We account for it by your own belief (never even proven, just assumed) that there is no reliable standard for true morality other than your own brain. And how’s that working in the world we live in? Not so well, hey? How many people have a brain left now that the Left has destroyed the academies? But nature abhors the proverbial vacuum. Expel God from the public arena and welcome the Devil.
Pervert are just fine with being judged according to the latest politically correct idiocy such as same-sex marriage, etc.
Isaiah 5:20 ►
“Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.”
Peter has already cited the moral Tower of Babble, and Ed cited Benedict XVI.
Nothing seems to register with you.
I expect that if you were kidnapped and torched for being an atheist, it might suddenly occur to you that there are moral absolutes, and the one in particular that you would like to advance is:
“Thou shalt not burn Bradski!”
What say you, Bradski?
Shheeesh,
Ed
B
Bradski
Guest
Well, Bradski says that all this weighin’ and balancin’ seems to give different interpretations depending on who is actually doing it, so it doesn’t get to anything you could describe as Absolute Truth. Unless you know how to access it…We were endowed with a brain to weigh and balance according to what we know to be true both in the Bible and the teachings of the Church.
What say you, Bradski?
So maybe you can point me to the various verses that dictate the punishment of small children. Or the slaughter of animals. Or burning fossil fuels. Or hunting. Or drones. Or torture of terrorists.
If there is an Absolute Truth, there will be only one correct answer to all problems. And I’m sure you’ll have an opinion on all of those and many more besides. Is your position the correct one? Or will it be just your opinion?
C
Charlemagne_III
Guest
So speak our resident dictator of relativism.
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inocente
Guest
Yesterday you said of another poster: ‘His “morality” is perverted’.
That’s an explicit claim that you can see this objective source of yours better than him. Your claim about truth resolves to you know truth and he doesn’t.
So far, any first year ethics student could bat away your arguments on her first day of class. Try again bro.
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inocente
Guest
Yarr, them moral absolutes be extra strange matey, appearin’ ‘n disappearin’ right afore ye very eyes. Depends on how ye be feelin’, or so they tells me. Etc.
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goout
Guest
Let me try this again.
Morality is not “mine”. I am not it’s source and arbiter. You seem to have trouble with this concept.
And I couldn’t care less what a first year ethics student thinks. For the same reasons.
The poster you are referring to compared the value of pets to that of humans. That is a wildly perverse sense of morality.
How are we doing with the latest morality?
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goout
Guest
Here is part of the terrifying exchange right here, in case anyone wonders what first year ethics is all about.
What’s good for pets is way better for human beings, in ever increasing larger amounts!
Try again bro indeed.
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Bradski
Guest
And how are we doing in regard to all those questions about where we find this Absolute Morality?
Someone must know…
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goout
Guest
Right, cause you’ve never seen a discussion of Catholic morality.
youtube.com/watch?v=ghj5V5cUo1s
Spoon feeding of capable adults is degrading. I refuse to do it.
B
Bradski
Guest
As much as I like Billy Preston, his music tells me nothing about how you personally determine Absolute Truth. And how I know if you have it right.
If you don’t have an answer, it might be good idea to admit as much so I don’t have to keep asking.
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