I think, certainly not. On the other hand, I don’t think it is the task of the Magesterium to convice. I think that job primarily belongs to the Holy Spirit, and to the faithful, who are commanded to “go and preach”. The duty of the Magesterium is to define and hold the divine deposit of faith. It is amazing to me how many people call themselves Catholic, yet reject the authority of the Magesterium.
that which was handed down from the Apostles. It includes the Word of God, both written, and oral.
I think you will find the bulk of this in the Catholic Catechism and the Canon Laws, as well as the historical documents. I recommend to you the Catechism on Divine Revelation for a fuller answer to your question. Catholics believe that the Church was founded by Jesus, and that Jesus Himself is Divine. And that He promised the Divine Holy Spirit to guide us into all truth, so that we would not be lost.
Most of the deliberations and pronouncements occur in reaction to some heresy that has risen. Bishops and priests are vowed to teach accurately. If they do not, they are subject to the disciplines of the church, among them, Canon Laws.
I think this happens all the time. I think there are plenty of poorly trained and educated priests, and some priests that seem to me downright heretical. So much more the reason that the laity be educated and active in supporting priests.
there are many good documents on the nature of divine revelation. Most of them will be centered around Christ, who is considered the epitome of Divine revelation “In whom the whole fullness of the God head dwells bodily”.
OK, so I had already done an extensive search, but I went back and dragged back more stuff.
A “theologian” who would claim he needs to be able to ignore the Magisterium in order to find the truth is strangely perverse: the teaching of the Magisterium is the prime, God-given means of finding the truth. Nor could he claim academic freedom lets him contradict the Church. In any field of knowledge, academic freedom belongs only to a properly qualified professor teaching in his own field. But one is not properly qualified if he does not use the correct method of working in his field, e.g., a science professor who would want to go back to medieval methods would be laughed off campus, not protected. Now in Catholic theology , the correct method is to study the sources of revelation, but then give the final word to the Church. He who does not follow that method is not a qualified Catholic theologian. Vatican II taught (Dei Verbum # 10): “The task of authoritatively interpreting the word of God, whether written or handed on [Scripture or Tradition], has been entrusted exclusively to the living Magisterium of the Church, whose authority is exercised in the name of Jesus Christ.”
As you ponder, ponder how Jesus would leave His authority on earth, just as He left the Mass in which you sit. What might that look like? How might it function? If it were not for the Magesterium, the Mass in which we partake would no longer exist.
I hear your words, but I know that Christ’s authority infuses other denominations as well: they are bound by their concept of the authority of Christ, their devotion to Him, and their search not only for salvation but for exemplary behaviour in this life.
Take into account that this is not speaking so much to private study. An individual is free to study any and all matters. The prohibition is to protect the uneducated, and is placed upon the theologian who is teaching “in the name of” the Church. Such a one has an added responsibility to avoid any error. This is not about being a thoughtful Christian, but about protecting the sheep from error.
The protected areas of infallibility are in regard to faith an morals only. This does not apply to science and other subjects.
Do you really have so many disagreements with the teachings? It does not seem to me that you do. I think this is more a matter of submission to authority. You have a very strong sense that each individual must do what he knows is right for him. You would not want not to abandon your sense of a clear conscience to an authority.
Perhaps you have not yet been able to experience the joy of yielding to a higher authority? Obedience is not joyless unless we “kick against the goads”. God would not have created you with an inquiring mind, had He not wanted you to use it. Furthomore He did not intend his relationship and communion with you to be confining and restraining. How could the road not be long, in the course of 2000 years? Yet, Christ in our hearts and minds is timeless, and He comes to meet us in Eucharist immediately in the here and now. Just BE with Him, and the rest will all fall into place.
Be not hindered by “exceedingly joyless chain of prohibitive codes, creeds, doctrines and dogmas” for these are not Christ, but our limited ways of trying to understand and follow HIm. Follow your heart, and be with your Beloved. You will find peace. Seek first His kingdom,a nd everything else will be added.
St. Augustine said “The truth does not care how many it convinces” I believe that also applies to the Magisterium too.
It really is sad. Recently TWO of my Catholic friends told me that abortion was okay in some circumstances. When I told them that the Catholic Church teaches that life starts at conception and all abortion is wrong, they simply told me “it’s not a rule” or “you don’t have to follow ALL of Catholic teachings.” Of course, I told them…“well yeah it kinda is a rule” and “yes you do.” I hope they understand that full obedience to God includes full obedience to His teachings which come through the Church.
Carol,
) you will have to make a decision of the will.Carol,
The teaching Magisterium takes a pastoral approach to encouraging proper assent to the truths of the Catholic faith.
You state the obvious, but it is important to be reminded that for Catholics (and those in RCIA formation) these following paragraphs from the *Catechism of the Catholic Church * on Moral Conscience which impugn a great deal of responsibility upon the aspiring faithful to educate their conscience, and the false notion of autonomy of conscience.
This is inconsistent with Church teaching. The only difference is that one went public with their dissident beliefs and likewise is at risk of incurring the grave sin of scandal on their soul. Why do you believe that the Church has “great tolerance” for dissidence?
This is a misleading statement that can give the impression that one can act against what the Church teaches in matters of faith and morals in subjective moral certitude. Faith, i.e., belief, never abandons intellect, but enlightens intellect, so that one may fully know and commit themselves to God via free will.For many of us there has been a point in our lives when someone (parent, educator, coach…etc) has told us to do something that seems counterintuitive, or even stupid. Yet we suppressed our intellectual objections, engaged our will and did what was suggested. Sometimes what we were told to do turned out to be correct and sometimes not. This is not to denigrate our intelligence, which is a gift from God and should be used accordingly. At some point in your struggle, because you will not be able to reconcile everything that the Church teaches with your intellect (no one can live that long
I understood Dallas Catholic to mean two things here: (1) that *will *can help to bring us to faith; and (2) that *individual will, driven by an informed and enlightened conscience * can in certain difficult circumstances assist the individual believer make a decision which might otherwise seem compromising.
You know, I sometimes think that the CCC, authoritative and comprehensive as it is, was written primarily for young believers, for ‘submarines’ who might just surface, for the flock of sheep. I know this sounds horribly arrogant, and I do not intend to take on the CCC!
Proof please. Show me where this is inconsistant with Church teaching. If the Church did not have “great tolerance” for dissidence then how come several Bishops and Cardinals who dissent from Church teaching are still in place? They have not been censured or disciplined. Again, since you are challenging I would like to see the proof.
Is not every action ultimately between us and God? I mean yes our actions affect others, but rejecting a truth from Christ is never something consistent with good.Carol,
I think Guanophore answered this particularly well in post #8. I would add that the prime focus of the Magisterium is teaching, not enforcement. The Catholic Church is not so much interested in enforcement as it is in teaching. Reading these forums you might get the impression that enforcement is a primary focus of the Church but that would be incorrect. If enforcement were a focus then we wouldn’t have the wide range of divergence among laity and religous that you have noted in this and other threads.
Let me put it to you this way, the Church teaches that abortion is wrong. As a Catholic you are required to know what the Church teaches, if however you (or any Catholic since many times men are a part of the decision to abort) decide on abortion then that is between you and God. This is true of all the Church teaches. There is, in fact, a great deal of tolerance in the Church (although you might not get that from these forums). The BIG difference is when you publicly deny Church teachings or try to teach something contrary to Church teachings, that is not allowed and EVENTUALLY the Church will take action. However for private individuals there is great tolerance.
I would leave you with a final thought, it is not mine but is something I have often heard and discussed with my Spiritual Director who is a Jesuit.
“Belief is not a decision of the intellect, it is a decision of the will.”.
For many of us there has been a point in our lives when someone (parent, educator, coach…etc) has told us to do something that seems counterintuitive, or even stupid. Yet we suppressed our intellectual objections, engaged our will and did what was suggested. Sometimes what we were told to do turned out to be correct and sometimes not. This is not to denigrate our intelligence, which is a gift from God and should be used accordingly. At some point in your struggle, because you will not be able to reconcile everything that the Church teaches with your intellect (no one can live that long
God Bless.
I have never found anywhere that the Church claims one can dissent and still be in full communion with The Church.
It is a type of reference and starting point. The problem I see is that some want to contradict what is there. Where is that justification found?
It is a life long proces. If one contradicts the Church then that would mean there are two Christs. One who is the authority that speaks through the Church and other Christs who dissent against themselves. Seems impossible, no?
I think that people who regect the Magesterium don’t see it as the teaching of Christ.
I think there is a place for conscience, but it is supposed to be a “well formed” conscience, and if such a conscience is not educated in the truth, following it will lead to error.