Is the marriage invalid or valid?

[rcwitness]

Well, is he attracted only to men or to both men and women?

This is a very good question. If he is not attracted to women too, why did he get married and have two kids?

It shouldn’t matter if he is attracted to other men, other women, or anything else, as long as he was genuinely attracted to his wife.

I’m attracted to many women other than my wife. Does that mean our marriage is invalid?

However, I do agree that the wife should have been told. Though, maybe this is what the priest and spiritual director had discerned? That his bisexual attraction didn’t prohibit him from genuinely devoting to his wife.

Does every wife absolutely NEED to know if there are bisexual attractions in their spouse in order to confer a valid sacrament?

 

[rcwitness]

Not exactly an irrelevant quote.

The husband had confronted and confessed the bisexual attraction to a priest and spiritual director. They apparently didn’t believe it was an impediment to marry. This means he must have still had attractions to his fiance.

It should not matter whether someone has attractions to other people, men or women, as long as they are making a vow to Marry their spouse with fidelity.

What happens after that vow, is what St Jerome is addressing.

 

[rcwitness]

Rckymtn85:

she does not believe him and is tied up on the “presumption of marriage does not validate a marriage.”

What does this even mean? Where is she getting this from?

Probably that just because the Church presumes the marriage to be valid, does not mean it must be.

 

[rcwitness]

Actually, you’re mistaken. “Willingly giving consent” to a situation of which she is not aware is not ‘consent.’ The question is whether she would have “given consent” had she known.

Is it absolutely necessary to share bisexual attractions for the other spouse to properly consent?

It’s not lying for this husband to make his vows to this woman. He can be attracted to her and intend to be faithful to her, despite having attractions to other people.

Can a woman claim an invalid marriage to a heterosexual man because he has attraction to women other than herself?

 

[pensmama87]

I think the wife’s reaction is very possibly influenced by grief and anger at this stage. I’d be pretty mad too if (depending on the particular circumstances) my husband “came out” to me after marriage, and revealed that he’d had these thoughts before we were married and chose deliberately to avoid telling me. I’d feel lied to and betrayed. I’d feel like I’d been cheated.

I don’t know why it had to come out now, but if something big happened, then add all of the emotion with that to what she’s already feeling. I don’t think fighting it with logic and reason and “well, you’re being unreasonable, honey” is a good practice. The husband has had years to live with this and sort it out, and has been pursuing whatever kind of treatment. The wife had it dumped on her recently. Give her a bit of time, and let her be upset about it, because it is upsetting.

 

[rcwitness]

Being upset is one thing. Wanting out of the Marriage bond is another.

 

[pensmama87]

Being upset is one thing. Wanting out of the Marriage bond is another.

You’ve never said things you don’t really mean, because in the heat of the moment you were really angry and hurt?

I’ve wanted out of my marriage before. For relatively mundane things. I’ve learned not to voice it because I know the feeling will pass and it’s just lashing out because I’m angry. But I’ve never felt a betrayal like this woman likely feels. Her husband can’t wag his finger at her and say, “Weeeeellllll, but you promised, so you’re stuck!” That is NOT going to be a long term solution. He really screwed up and is going to have to do a lot to show her that the marriage is worth fighting for.

 

[rcwitness]

It sounds like he has remorse and sorrow about it. Yet, he also was willing to tell her about it, but the priest and SP advised not to.

Be upset at them. Love him

 

[Gorgias]

Can a woman claim an invalid marriage to a heterosexual man because he has attraction to women other than herself?

Yes, if the assertion is that, had she known, that would have determined her decision not to marry him.

Of course, she can’t just say it now. In order to prove it to the tribunal, she’d need supporting evidence.

 

[rcwitness]

That’s ridiculous

 

[rcwitness]

I don’t believe one overcomes an attraction.

 

[jtwp5]

Sad reading through this thread, I have SSA myself. Not sure what my path is but I would never withhold that from a potential spouse. Not sure why his spiritual director advised him not to say anything. Though just because one has SSA it doesn’t mean they can’t be attracted to the opposite sex as well. I don’t feel anything sexually towards women. They’ve had 2 children together so far so something is working right.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Interesting that his spiritual director advised him to lie through omission.

Given that we constantly have people on this forum telling others to keep certain aspects of their sexual behavior (cheated once, or fooled around with a person of same sex once before marriage) private and not tell their spouses, I am not surprised.

In some cases, people have posted claiming that priests told them not to tell their spouse about an affair.

It boggles my mind too.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Is it absolutely necessary to share bisexual attractions for the other spouse to properly consent?

I’d say yes. I would want to know in advance. I would also tell my future spouse if I had any bisexual attractions. Which, actually, I did have, and did tell him about. Never acted on them, but they were there.

Besides, getting it all out on the table before marriage means you’re not dealing with it 10 or 20 years down the line. Why wouldn’t you want to just get it all out?

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I always figured if I just told my husband everything, then he wouldn’t ever be getting a gossip letter or blackmail letter from anyone. Or if I was subpoenaed to testify on the stand, there would be no surprises.

I didn’t get married so I could hide stuff from my spouse. I specifically wanted a spouse who would love me no matter what. That includes loving me even when I tell him the weird or flawed stuff about me.

 

[BoomBoomMancini]

I’d agree that it’s probably a good idea/prudent to get it out on the table (particularly if his attractions were strong and enduring enough that he sought counseling for them), but does not doing it invalidate the marriage? I have no idea, I’m just thinking out loud.

That includes loving me even when I tell him the weird or flawed stuff about me

I don’t know if I’d describe bisexual attractions as weird or a personal flaw, but yeah, agreed.

 

[rcwitness]

Right. Especially after discussing/discerning with a pastor and SP

 

[Tis_Bearself]

There’s a possibilty the other person could say, as the wife is saying, “I would not have married you, had I known.”

We just had this same discussion on the thread about the woman who had a lesbian encounter once and was wondering whether to tell her boyfriend. I believe Wesrock mentioned it as a possible ground for annulment if she married the guy without telling him.

 

[BoomBoomMancini]

There’s a possibilty the other person could say, as the wife is saying, “I would not have married you, had I known.”

True, although in theory someone could say that about any piece of information no matter how mundane. “You were cut from the 9th grade basketball team?! You should have told me, I’d never have married you!” I’m getting ridiculous,
I realize, but like in the thread with the woman who had a single same sex encounter years prior, I just don’t see it as consequential enough that someone could reasonably decide to break off an engagement. Granted, may not be the case here where the guy has deep seated, enduring attractions.

 

[Gorgias]

That’s ridiculous

If your wife were an axe-murderer, and you knew it before the wedding, would you have married her?

Same thing here. Lack of knowledge – where it would determine the consent – means that there wasn’t consent.

Not terribly ridiculous.