Is the Mormon God/Heavenly Father described in the Bible?

[Telstar]

1voice, Let me simply speak of one. It is encompassed in this scripture,“And this is life eternal, that they might know the the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent” (John 17:3).

Are you implying that Catholics and other Christians don’t really know God the Father, or Jesus, or the Holy Spirit? I would strongly disagree with that extremely presumptuous statement.

“It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the Character of God, and to know that we may converse with him as one man converses with another,…” (Teaching of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p 345) This one belief flies in the face of historical Christianity.

If anyone was lacking in understanding the true character of God, it was Joseph Smith. He couldn’t grasp the true majesty and power of God, so he had to lower Him to being nothing more than an imperfect mortal man, like him, that once lived on another planet, then somehow, magically became a god. That’s about as insulting to the true nature of God as you can ever get. In fact, it’s pure blasphemy.

As far as the idea of talking to God as if talking to anyone else goes, what makes you think that “flies in the face of historical Christianity”? I talk to God all the time, just like most other Catholics do. I talk to Jesus as if He was standing right here in the same room with me, because He is. He always listens to me. I tell Him how I feel. I ask Him for help with things that bother me. I ask Him to have mercy on other people, and forgive them for what they do. I tell Him I’m sorry for being a jerk, and doing things that I know I shouldn’t do, and ask for His forgiveness. If that’s not what most other people do, then I guess I must be an exception to the rule. But, knowing quite a few other Catholics as well as I do, I know that I’m not alone in doing it.

Prayer is an extremely important part of Catholic life, and I’m not just talking about saying the Our Father, or any other formal prayer, occasionally. It’s the most important thing that brings us closer to God, every single day of our lives. Although, the Rosary is the most misunderstood prayer that most non-Catholics can’t even begin to understand, because they just think it repeats prayers over and over, and serves no other purpose related to God. What they don’t understand is that the most important part of it is the meditation that we do on the mysteries of many aspects and events in the life of Jesus Christ, while we’re saying it.

As much as I hound Jesus every day, He probably gets tired of listening to me yacking His ear off (not that He ever really would, but anyone else probably would, that’s for sure). You apparently know absolutely nothing about the prayer life of most Catholics. We don’t just go to Church once a week just to show up and be seen by everyone there, then forget about God until next week.

Yet how can a man approach God if he does not even correctly know whom he worships? And unless one knows, “It does not matter one particle how sincerely someone may believe that God is a golden calf, or that he is an immaterial, uncreated power that is in all things; the worship of such a being or concept has no saving power… But if he worships the true and living God, in spirit and in truth, then God Almighty will pour out his Spirit upon him” (How to Worship, Bruce R. McConkie, Ensign Dec 1971) We say man can converse with God and all other creeds say “no”. And this is simply one aspect of the first principle.

We know exactly Whom we worship. The One and Only God that created the entire universe and all that’s in it out of nothing. He’s not a golden calf, or the pathetic description given to Him by Bruce McConkie. When you finally realize just how powerful and majestic He truly is, then you can come back and tell us all about who really knows about God and who doesn’t. There is absolutely nothing in our Creed that that says we can’t talk to God, directly. Someone already posted it. Please, show me where it says anything like that.

 

[theidler]

Are you implying that Catholics and other Christians don’t really know God the Father, or Jesus, or the Holy Spirit? I would strongly disagree with that extremely presumptuous statement.

If anyone was lacking in understanding the true character of God, it was Joseph Smith. He couldn’t grasp the true majesty and power of God, so he had to lower Him to being nothing more than an imperfect mortal man, like him, that once lived on another planet, then somehow, magically became a god. That’s about as insulting to the true nature of God as you can ever get. In fact, it’s pure blasphemy.

As far as the idea of talking to God as if talking to anyone else goes, what makes you think that “flies in the face of historical Christianity”? I talk to God all the time, just like most other Catholics do. I talk to Jesus as if He was standing right here in the same room with me, because He is. He always listens to me. I tell Him how I feel. I ask Him for help with things that bother me. I ask Him to have mercy on other people, and forgive them for what they do. I tell Him I’m sorry for being a jerk, and doing things that I know I shouldn’t do, and ask for His forgiveness. If that’s not what most other people do, then I guess I must be an exception to the rule. But, knowing quite a few other Catholics as well as I do, I know that I’m not alone in doing it.

Prayer is an extremely important part of Catholic life, and I’m not just talking about saying the Our Father, or any other formal prayer, occasionally. It’s the most important thing that brings us closer to God, every single day of our lives. Although, the Rosary is the most misunderstood prayer that most non-Catholics can’t even begin to understand, because they just think it repeats prayers over and over, and serves no other purpose related to God. What they don’t understand is that the most important part of it is the meditation that we do on the mysteries of many aspects and events in the life of Jesus Christ, while we’re saying it.

As much as I hound Jesus every day, He probably gets tired of listening to me yacking His ear off (not that He ever really would, but anyone else probably would, that’s for sure). You apparently know absolutely nothing about the prayer life of most Catholics. We don’t just go to Church once a week just to show up and be seen by everyone there, then forget about God until next week.

We know exactly Whom we worship. The One and Only God that created the entire universe and all that’s in it out of nothing. He’s not a golden calf, or the pathetic description given to Him by Bruce McConkie. When you finally realize just how powerful and majestic He truly is, then you can come back and tell us all about who really knows about God and who doesn’t. There is absolutely nothing in our Creed that that says we can’t talk to God, directly. Someone already posted it. Please, show me where it says anything like that?

Well said!

 

[Janderich]

All other Creeds?
On what ground does Bruce R McConkie base his blanket statement?
In response to him I would say…
I, personally, know many, many Christians from a wide range of denominational backgrounds, over many years… that have a deep, abiding, personal, intimate relationship with God.
I know that I know that I know … that I have that kind of relationship with my Savior Jesus, the Christ … Halleluia!! … He is my best friend! Closer than any brother! They might steal my car… steal my shoes… rob my wallet and sing the blues … but no one will ever separate me from what I know in my heart! Jus cant!!! …

It was not really my point to argue our beliefs today. Nor was my comment meant as an attack. You asked me what separates us from other creeds according to Joseph Smith, and I have given it to you as I see it. It is not that other’s cannot have some level of relationship with God. But we, along with Joseph, believe that man may speak to God face to face as one man speaks to another. This is where Joseph is coming from. He actually saw two perfected people the Father and the Son and they stood before him and conversed with him. Other religions do not, would not, could not believe it. Does someone not of the LDS faith believe that God spoke to Joseph Smith or that he has continued to do so with other LDS prophets and apostles in the modern age? Does someone else believe that God has hands, feet, a voice, and other body parts?

 

[theidler]

It was not really my point to argue our beliefs today. Nor was my comment meant as an attack. You asked me what separates us from other creeds according to Joseph Smith, and I have given it to you as I see it. It is not that other’s cannot have some level of relationship with God. But we, along with Joseph, believe that man may speak to God face to face as one man speaks to another. This is where Joseph is coming from. He actually saw two perfected people the Father and the Son and they stood before him and conversed with him. Other religions do not, would not, could not believe it. Does someone not of the LDS faith believe that God spoke to Joseph Smith or that he has continued to do so with other LDS prophets and apostles in the modern age? Does someone else believe that God has hands, feet, a voice, and other body parts?

Funny, many of our saints have spoken to Christ face to face.

 

[Telstar]

Hmmmmmm… Janderich is on, Parker is off. Parker is on, Janderich is off. They certainly seem to back each other up (as all good little Mormons should). But, things seem to keep getting curiouser and curiouser.

 

[1voice]

It was not really my point to argue our beliefs today. Nor was my comment meant as an attack. You asked me what separates us from other creeds according to Joseph Smith, and I have given it to you as I see it. It is not that other’s cannot have some level of relationship with God. But we, along with Joseph, believe that man may speak to God face to face as one man speaks to another. This is where Joseph is coming from. He actually saw two perfected people the Father and the Son and they stood before him and conversed with him. Other religions do not, would not, could not believe it. Does someone not of the LDS faith believe that God spoke to Joseph Smith or that he has continued to do so with other LDS prophets and apostles in the modern age? Does someone else believe that God has hands, feet, a voice, and other body parts?

No offense taken.
I didnt think for a second that your intention was anything other than an honest, friendly explanation of the LDS Church’s view.

In your above comment you focus … on the idea that people not of the LDS Faith would question wether Joseph Smith really saw God the Father as well as Jesus. I agree. All Christian faiths face that same sort of skepticism about that … as well as many other points. …It comes with the territory I guess…
My focus … is on the LDS idea that other Christian Churches dont believe that God the Father and Jesus can and do appear to people in the way that Joseph Smith described. That idea is simply not accurate in any sense. How was such an idea ever formed?

 

[Crdl2Grv]

The King Follet sermon, where Joseph Smith tells us God was not always God.

Janderich,

ParkerD has claimed many, many (many, many, many, many, many, many, many many) times that the teachings contained in the King Follet Discourses are considered neither doctrinal nor binding to members of the LDS faith. Is that true?

If it is true that the teachings contained in the KFD are considered neither doctrinal nor binding by Mormons, then it stands to reason* that they would not be examples of “specific things are included in the LDS creed that cause it to be acceptable to Jesus and not an abomination?,” as 1voice put it.

If, on the other hand, the teachings contained in the KFD are considered doctrinal and binding by Mormons, then 99.99999999% of ParkerD’s posts are flat-out lies.

I look forward to your response.

(* - AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, ARISTOTLE, GET OUT OF MY MIND!!!)

 

[Janderich]

Janderich,

ParkerD has claimed many, many (many, many, many, many, many, many, many many) times that the teachings contained in the King Follet Discourses are considered neither doctrinal nor binding to members of the LDS faith. Is that true?

If it is true that the teachings contained in the KFD are considered neither doctrinal nor binding by Mormons, then it stands to reason* that they would not be examples of “specific things are included in the LDS creed that cause it to be acceptable to Jesus and not an abomination?,” as 1voice put it.

If, on the other hand, the teachings contained in the KFD are considered doctrinal and binding by Mormons, then 99.99999999% of ParkerD’s posts are flat-out lies.

I look forward to your response.

(* - AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, ARISTOTLE, GET OUT OF MY MIND!!!)

Crdl2Grv,
I was not commenting on the entire sermon. Parker is right that we are not bound to believe all it contains. As I stated before, we have no creed per se. However, it does hold truth. My comment was related to Joseph Smith’s specific statement about knowing God’s character and conversing with Him. So let me give you scripture out of the D&C. God the Father has a body like man, “The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also;” (D&C130 22) We are his spirit children, “…and the inhabitants therof are begotten sons and daughters unto God” (D&C 76:24). That we can converse with Him, “Verily, thus saith the Lord: It shall come to pass that every soul who forsaketh his sins and cometh unto me, and calleth on my name and obeyeth my voice, and keepeth my commandments, shall see my face and know that I am;…” (D&C 93:1). Or this, “Therefore, sanctify yourselves that your minds become single to God, and the days will come that you shall see him; for he will unveil his face unto you, and it shall be in his own time, and in his own way, and according to his own will.” (D&C 88:68). My point is that we are his children he is our Father. We can talk to Him. There is no mystery about it.

 

[GaryTaylor]

As I stated before, we have no creed per se. However, it does hold truth. My comment was related to Joseph Smith’s specific statement about knowing God’s character and conversing with Him.

So let me give you scripture out of the D&C. God the Father has a body like man, “The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also;” (D&C130 22) We are his spirit children, “…and the inhabitants therof are begotten sons and daughters unto God” (D&C 76:24). That we can converse with Him, “Verily, thus saith the Lord: It shall come to pass that every soul who forsaketh his sins and cometh unto me, and calleth on my name and obeyeth my voice, and keepeth my commandments, shall see my face and know that I am;…” (D&C 93:1). Or this, “Therefore, sanctify yourselves that your minds become single to God, and the days will come that you shall see him; for he will unveil his face unto you, and it shall be in his own time, and in his own way, and according to his own will.” (D&C 88:68). My point is that we are his children he is our Father. We can talk to Him. There is no mystery about it.

No you have “NO CREED” per Joe Smith, not per-say. And the point constantly made is GOD spoke to “numerous” canonized Saints. Joe Smiths private revelation doesn’t supercede not a single one, “NONE” to be exact. In fact his private revelation is contrary to tradition/scripture, and it could “never” be, sorry to say. Thus its in the “banned book” pile.

“The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also;”

Nowhere does the church/Scripture define God with Bones and Flesh. Never has. So this is another circular agruement based on a Strawman. Another loosey goosey interpretation of Joe Smith, of course when you interpret Bible as you like then your no longer following Scripture, but your own thinking. As we see with Joe Smith in Genesis/Matthew etc.

The “WORD” became flesh, through a human called the Blessed Mother. BTW do you call Her the Blessed Mother as per scripture? Or did Joe Smith correct those verse’s also?

“Therefore, sanctify yourselves that your minds become single to God, and the days will come that you shall see him; for he will unveil his face unto you, and it shall be in his own time, and in his own way, and according to his own will.”

An implication which in fact may never happen. Point is this may not happen in your life here “regardless” of how close you draw in free-will to the Lord. Documented fact, one calling in not anothers, so then the days may come and they also may not, till the Judgement at Death. And of course it would be in His way, time, and to whom He wills, and How. Thus another “Strawman”.

And the One Holy Apostolic Church states…

…of these three persons we believe that for the liberation of the human race only the person of the Son became true man without sin from the holy and Immaculate Virgin Mary, from whom He is begotten in a new manner and by a new birth; in a new manner, because invisible in divinity, He became visible in flesh; by a new birth, however, is He begotten, because inviolate virginity without the experience of sexual intercourse supplied the material of human flesh made fruitful by the Holy Spirit.

Man in not made in the Flesh and Bones image of God the Father, its heretical theory based on no fact. The image is the Soul. IMHO, The rest is a “strawman”.

John 4:24, Jesus teaches us: “God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.” This means God has no body, because a spirit is, by nature, an incorporeal being. As Jesus tells us elsewhere, “a spirit has not flesh and bones” (Luke 24:39).

Of course when we place Joe Smiths “interpretation” ahead of Jesus Christ I see where the problems occur.

Peace:thumbsup:

 

[KathleenGee]

Again, to make such statements that imply we do not know God while drawing on many Scriptural passages…reveals a tremendous lack of knowledge in the development of theology and faith in God…beginning with the Apostles Creed…

The Mormon doctrines can’t be called theology…they are man made…

Our eternal life comes with the Eucharist…as Christ Himself clearly stated.

We approach God by eating…consuming…being nourished…because we are creatures, dependent on our Creator.

Adam and Eve were shown the trees whose fruit they could eat…including that of the Tree of Life…prefigurment of the Eucharist.

Instead, Adam and Eve chose to eat of the forbidden fruit to become as gods, and likewise chose the consequences…death.

Christ was laid in an animal feeder, a manger.

When we receive the Eucharist, we are indeed receiving eternal life…but the Eucharist is not making us gods, but providing us the life of God in the only physical way…our life not coming from things of this world…but of God Himself…that is subsequently shown in being a servant, having the gifts of the Holy Spirit…and having happiness and fulfillment that does not come from this world, and having a vision of life that transcends all troubles or pleasures.

 

[PaulDupre]

As far as the idea of talking to God as if talking to anyone else goes, what makes you think that “flies in the face of historical Christianity”? I talk to God all the time, just like most other Catholics do. I talk to Jesus as if He was standing right here in the same room with me, because He is. He always listens to me. I tell Him how I feel. I ask Him for help with things that bother me. I ask Him to have mercy on other people, and forgive them for what they do. I tell Him I’m sorry for being a jerk, and doing things that I know I shouldn’t do, and ask for His forgiveness. If that’s not what most other people do, then I guess I must be an exception to the rule. But, knowing quite a few other Catholics as well as I do, I know that I’m not alone in doing it.

Mormons are taught by their church that Catholics do not pray spontaneously or with sincere intent, but only recite rote prayers written by other people. You see that belief reflected in Parker’s and Janderich’s condescending posts. They really believe it! So it’s no wonder they think that non-Mormons can’t possibly know God as a friend.

Mormons characterize Catholicism as nothing but empty ritual with no real meaning behind it.

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)

 

[Janderich]

Mormons are taught by their church that Catholics do not pray spontaneously or with sincere intent, but only recite rote prayers written by other people. You see that belief reflected in Parker’s and Janderich’s condescending posts. They really believe it! So it’s no wonder they think that non-Mormons can’t possibly know God as a friend.

Mormons characterize Catholicism as nothing but empty ritual with no real meaning behind it.

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)

Sorry everyone for my poor statements.

Telstar, I can tell how sincere you are simply from your posts. No doubt your prayers are even more so. I do not believe God would ever overlook such sincerity.

It’s probably a little unfair to lump Parker in with me. After all he has written over 5,000 posts trying to explain our beliefs and I have seen little condescension in what he writes.

 

[KathleenGee]

How people can think we have not had our faith sustained for 2,000 years shows a great blindness and prejudiceby the Mormon church who we Catholics really are.

Like I have always said, without the Catholic Church, Mormonism would not have anything to validate itself. Mormon leadership is obsessed with Catholicism, and reading comments about how this religion teaches its followers is only another example it is a man made religion.

Those who actively work to misrepresent our Church will be held accountable to God.

But Mormons do not believe in hell so…that is only reserved for those who leave Mormonism.

My Mormon friend told me she was not raised in an anti-Catholic family.

 

[PaulDupre]

Sorry everyone for my poor statements.

Telstar, I can tell how sincere you are simply from your posts. No doubt your prayers are even more so. I do not believe God would ever overlook such sincerity.

It’s probably a little unfair to lump Parker in with me. After all he has written over 5,000 posts trying to explain our beliefs and I have seen little condescension in what he writes.

If you don’t see condescension towards Catholics in Parker’s posts, you either haven’t read many of them or else you are so accustomed to it (by your association with other Mormons) that you don’t recognize it when you see it.

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)

 

[1voice]

Originally Posted by 1voice
All other Creeds?
On what ground does Bruce R McConkie base his blanket statement?
In response to him I would say…
I, personally, know many, many Christians from a wide range of denominational backgrounds, over many years… that have a deep, abiding, personal, intimate relationship with God.
I know that I know that I know … that I have that kind of relationship with my Savior Jesus, the Christ … Halleluia!! … He is my best friend! Closer than any brother! They might steal my car… steal my shoes… rob my wallet and sing the blues … but no one will ever separate me from what I know in my heart! Jus cant!!! …

It was not really my point to argue our beliefs today. Nor was my comment meant as an attack. You asked me what separates us from other creeds according to Joseph Smith, and I have given it to you as I see it. It is not that other’s cannot have some level of relationship with God. But we, along with Joseph, believe that man may speak to God face to face as one man speaks to another. This is where Joseph is coming from. He actually saw two perfected people the Father and the Son and they stood before him and conversed with him. Other religions do not, would not, could not believe it. Does someone not of the LDS faith believe that God spoke to Joseph Smith or that he has continued to do so with other LDS prophets and apostles in the modern age? Does someone else believe that God has hands, feet, a voice, and other body parts?

Here is one example of a man (who is not a Mormon) that saw and spoke to God the Father. He also saw Jesus and saw and spoke to the Holy Spirit.
The man,Bob Jones,(not associated with Bob Jones University) is well known to many Christians from many denominational backgrounds.
It is a 2 part video on youtube. in the first part he describes how he died. In the second… his conversation with God.

youtube.com/watch?v=3MRJ3wA5neU&feature=related

youtube.com/watch?v=HBl3ZfGA-IM&feature=related

 

[Telstar]

(1) There are many such prophetic statements in the Old Testament, which the LDS church believes is not “finished” being fulfilled, in that there are still gatherings taking place. A great source text is in Isaiah 11:10-16. Another good one is in Hosea 1:10 and 11 and Hosea 3:4 and 5, about the gathering of Israel (including the “children of Judah” and the “children of Israel” or of the northern kingdom which is also called “Ephraim”). Jerusalem will be restored to its former greatness at some point in the Millenium.

“(1) the belief that there will the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes.”
*Isaias 11:[10] In that day the root of Jesse, who standeth for an ensign of the people, him the Gentiles shall beseech, and his sepulchre shall be glorious. [11] And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand the second time to possess the remnant of his people, which shall be left from the Assyrians, and from Egypt, and from Phetros, and from Ethiopia, and from Elam, and from Sennaar, and from Emath, and from the islands of the sea. [12] And he shall set up a standard unto the nations, and shall assemble the fugitives of Israel, and shall gather together the dispersed of Juda from the four quarters of the earth. [13] And the envy of Ephraim shall be taken away, and the enemies of Juda shall perish: Ephraim shall not envy Juda, and Juda shall not fight against Ephraim. [14] But they shall fly upon the shoulders of the Philistines by the sea, they together shall spoil the children of the east: Edom, and Moab shall be under the rule of their hand, and the children of Ammon shall be obedient. [15] And the Lord shall lay waste the tongue of the sea of Egypt, and shall lift up his hand over the river in the strength of his spirit: and he shall strike it in the seven streams, so that men may pass through it in their shoes. [16] And there shall be a highway for the remnant of my people, which shall be left from the Assyrians: as there was for Israel in the day that he came up out of the land of Egypt.

Osee (Hosea) 1:[7] And I will have mercy on the house of Juda, and I will save them by the Lord their God: and I will not save them by bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, nor by horses, nor by horsemen. [8] And she weaned her that was called Without mercy. And she conceived, and bore a son. [9] And he said: Call his name, Not my people: for you are not my people, and I will not be yours. [10] And the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, that is without measure, and shall not be numbered. And it shall be in the place where it shall be said to them: **You are not my people: it shall be said to them: Ye are the sons of the living God. ** [11] And the children of Juda, and the children of Israel shall be gathered together: and they shall appoint themselves one head, and shall come up out of the land: for great is the day of Jezrahel.

Osee (Hosea) 3:[4] For the children of Israel shall sit many days without king, and without prince, and without sacrifice, and without altar, and without ephod, and without theraphim. [5] And after this the children of Israel shall return, and shall seek the Lord their God, and David their king: and they shall fear the Lord, and his goodness in the last days.*All of the above refers to Jesus (the root of Jesse), coming as the Messiah to save only the small remnant of Jews that would follow Him, then salvation being offered to the Gentiles, instead. The first time the ‘remnant’ was saved from Egypt, by Moses. The ‘second’ time, was by Jesus. (He was from the house of Juda.) All of those prophecies are fulfilled in Him. In the ‘last days’, even the remainder of the Jews will be converted to Jesus Christ. None of it has anything to do with the Jews returning to ‘the land’ of Israel, or rebuilding the Jewish Temple. They will return to God, through Jesus Christ (after separating themselves from God by rejecting Him as the Messiah).

“(2) that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent.”

(2) The source texts are Isaiah 2:2 and 3 and Genesis 49:22-26, wherein the descendants of Joseph (“whose branches run over the wall”) were to be blessed “unto the utmost bounds of the everlasting hills.”

*Isaias 2: [1] The word that Isaias the son of Amos saw, concerning Juda and Jerusalem. [2] And in the last days the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be prepared on the top of mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills, and all nations shall flow unto it. [3] And many people shall go, and say: Come and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, and to the house of the God of Jacob, and he will teach us his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall come forth from Sion, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.*The “last days” is the time from the Coming of Christ, to His Second Coming. I think this passage refers to the Church (the “mountain of the Lord”) that He established on Peter that will “teach us his ways, and we will walk in his paths”. The “word” and “law” that comes forth from Sion/Jerusalem is the Gospel of the New Testament, the Law of Christ (the Word of God). Genesis 49 is about the sons of Jacob. I see many hints about Jesus as the Messiah, but, I really don’t see anything in it that supports your interpretation.

 

[Telstar]

Mormons are taught by their church that Catholics do not pray spontaneously or with sincere intent, but only recite rote prayers written by other people. You see that belief reflected in Parker’s and Janderich’s condescending posts. They really believe it! So it’s no wonder they think that non-Mormons can’t possibly know God as a friend.

Mormons characterize Catholicism as nothing but empty ritual with no real meaning behind it.

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)

I completely understand that. That’s what I find so frustrating in dealing with that kind of narrow-minded thinking, especially from those who don’t even understand what having a deep prayer life really means to us. The Catholic Church could never have survived for as long as it has, or continued to grow in such an enormous way, without having a deep prayer life in the whole Church, from the bottom up. Their misconception is based on their belief that since we don’t believe there is any such thing as further public revelation, we can’t possibly understand revelation, at all.

All public revelation may have ended with Jesus Christ, because He is the Alpha and the Omega, and was the final public Revelation of God, necessary for faith. But, what they never see, and know nothing about, is the tremendous volume of private revelation that has continued throughout every stage of the Church along the way, beginning with the Apostles, who were the very first to experience that kind of revelation, through various means, including Heavenly visions.

The amount of private revelation that’s been recorded by the Church is staggering, and much of it is backed up by countless miracles that are also a major part of the prayer life of Catholics. It’s just not considered to be a part of the Deposit of Faith, and can never change the way we view basic Doctrine. It mainly serves to inspire people of every generation to continue to faithfully follow Jesus. Some of the experiences that I’ve had, myself, and have seen or read about over the years, would probably curl their hair! :bigyikes:

Sorry everyone for my poor statements.

Telstar, I can tell how sincere you are simply from your posts. No doubt your prayers are even more so. I do not believe God would ever overlook such sincerity.

It’s probably a little unfair to lump Parker in with me. After all he has written over 5,000 posts trying to explain our beliefs and I have seen little condescension in what he writes.

You haven’t been around long enough to see all the condescension in Parker’s responses, or it doesn’t seem to be condescension in your view. He usually tries to hide it in sweet-talk, but it’s there. Sometimes, I doubt that even he realizes that he’s doing it. He talks down to Catholics as if we weren’t the brightest bulbs on the Christmas tree, and couldn’t possibly understand anything about God. Sometimes, it just makes me laugh and shake my head, but other times it really ticks me off.

If you don’t see condescension towards Catholics in Parker’s posts, you either haven’t read many of them or else you are so accustomed to it (by your association with other Mormons) that you don’t recognize it when you see it.

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)

Exactly. I think it’s almost ‘bred’ into them to think that they’re the only ones that could possibly understand anything about God, and the rest of us are just babbling fools.

 

[theidler]

I have found some of ParkerD’s posts to be condescending towards my being a writer and English major when I criticized the Book of Mormon for having the same narrative voice throughout:blush:. I realize that I myself come off, I am certain, as uncharitable sometimes…but I would have at least liked an acknowledgement of a sort of apology from him for his sarcasm. Ah well. We all have our uncharitable moments.

Janderich, as much as I disagree with you, I think you have been very charitable and it is appreciated.

 

[PaulDupre]

Janderich, as much as I disagree with you, I think you have been very charitable and it is appreciated.

I’ll second that!

 

[Crdl2Grv]

Crdl2Grv,
As I stated before, we have no creed per se.

So it is an article of faith amongst the LDS that all other Christian creeds are “an abomination,” and yet the LDS faith does not have a creed of its own. So the real issue is with the mere existence of creeds, regardless of what they may or may not contain. Especially since each member of the LDS faith can receive their own “personal revelation,” which he or she can use to judge the truth of LDS doctrine for themselves, even after it’s gone through the process of being revealed, proclaimed and voted on and such.