Is the Old Covenant still valid?

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IrishYanksFan

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What exactly is the Church’s real stance on Judaism??? :confused:

Why is it that the church is trying to get so friendly with them, more so than any other false, non-Christian religion?
 
I would ask if you would think God will ever break His promise?
 
withwind said:
I would ask if you would think God will ever break His promise?
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I thought the old Covenant was voided with the Crucifixion and Resurrection of Christ. The Jews tortured their own Messiah to death.

“This is the cup of my blood. The blood of the new and everlasting Covenant.”

So if the Old Covenant is still valid, if I become a Jew and start going to temple, celebrating Purim and Passover, etc., will I still be saved? Doesn’t that sort of negate the necessity of Christ’s sacrifice?

Please explain to me how modern Jews are any different than any other false religion.
 
IrishYanksFan said:
What exactly is the Church’s real stance on Judaism??? :confused:

Why is it that the church is trying to get so friendly with them, more so than any other false, non-Christian religion?
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Hello IrishYanksFan,

Just my 2 cents, if I may.

Not sure that I would place the label of " false " religion on our beloved Jewish friends.:)🙂

IMHO, I ( A Catholic Christian ) am a continuation of the Jewish faith and have enormous respect and admiration for many of the devout Jews today. ( I pray that they will come into " completion " of their faith as well :))

God bless,
CJ
 
The Old Covenant was fulfilled by Jesus, and thus is no longer valid. Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus is dogma.

This does not mean that God broke his promise in any way. His promise to the Jews was to send the Messiah, which He did. Once the Messiah came, Judaism became obsolete as a religion. The Jews were meant to follow Christ and become Christians. Many, probably most Jews became Christians in the Apostolic Age.

Some Jews not believing in Jesus as the Messiah does not make Judaism remain a viable path to salvation. Much like the righteous pagan could be saved before the Incarnation and Resurrection through simple living a good life according to the natural law. Once those pagans heard the Gospel proclaimed, that ceased to be an option. Likewise, with the coming of Christ the Old Covenant ceases to be a path to salvation.

Christ is Risen!
 
I think, at least in current times, whether the Mosaic Covenant is valid or not is a fairly moot point. After all, the MC requires near constant sacrifice at a proper place (i.e. Holy Temple or proper, but portable, Tabernacle). There is not longer a Holy Temple/Tabernacle, so there is no more sacrifices, thus the way that the MC would be fulfilled is currently impossible.

Also, you would need the Ark of the Covenant, a restored Kohein Priesthood (even though Judaism still maintains records of who is in the line of Aaron and the Levites, there is more to being a High Priest than simple bloodline…someone has to ordain you).
 
CJ_Nick said:
Hello again Irish,

Indeed, I realize that Jews do not see it that way or else they would not still be Jews :)🙂

That is why I pray for these loving, devout, Godly peolpe.:)🙂

Peace,
CJ
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I hope you are praying for them to accept Jesus and convert, which is the proper thing to do, as is shown by the Good Friday liturgies.

Christ is Risen!
 
bilop said:
I hope you are praying for them to accept Jesus and convert, which is the proper thing to do, as is shown by the Good Friday liturgies.

Christ is Risen!
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Yes!!! That is my prayer :)🙂

Peace,
CJ
 
CJ_Nick said:
Not sure that I would place the label of " false " religion on our beloved Jewish friends.:)🙂
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But that’s exactly what Judaism is
  1. False - Untrue, not factual, factually incorrect.
  2. Religion - A system of practices which act according to beliefs, including belief in the existence of at least one of the following: a human soul or spirit, a deity or higher being, or self after the death of one’s body.
To say that Judaism is not a false religion is to deny the sacrifice of Christ.
 
IrishYanksFan said:
But that’s exactly what Judaism is
  1. False - Untrue, not factual, factually incorrect.
  2. Religion - A system of practices which act according to beliefs, including belief in the existence of at least one of the following: a human soul or spirit, a deity or higher being, or self after the death of one’s body.
To say that Judaism is not a false religion is to deny the sacrifice of Christ.
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Hi again Irish,

A short reply as to not be contentious 🙂

I fully realize the perspective you offer.

In my humble opinion, judaism IS NOT a false Religion.
It is the very religion that Christainity is rooted in.

I realize that our beloved Jewish friends have not embraced Jesus as the Messiah and I pray for them that they will, one day perhaps, do just that and continue their faith to its prophetic and fullfilled end.🙂

Peace,
CJ
 
CJ_Nick said:
Hello again Irish,

Indeed, I realize that Jews do not see it that way or else they would not still be Jews :)🙂

That is why I pray for these loving, devout, Godly peolpe.:)🙂

Peace,
CJ
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They would be Jews, but Messianic Jews (Jews that have come to faith in Jesus as the Messiah), not Rabbinical Jews…

Just like the first Christians 🙂
 
LutheranDK said:
They would be Jews, but Messianic Jews (Jews that have come to faith in Jesus as the Messiah), not Rabbinical Jews…

Just like the first Christians 🙂
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Hi LutheranDK ( Just curious, what religion are you LOL !!!)

Indeed!!!

A very good point and I thank you for the contribution :)🙂

I humbly, stand corrected.

Peace,
CJ
 
IrishYanksFan said:
But that’s exactly what Judaism is
  1. False - Untrue, not factual, factually incorrect.
  2. Religion - A system of practices which act according to beliefs, including belief in the existence of at least one of the following: a human soul or spirit, a deity or higher being, or self after the death of one’s body.
To say that Judaism is not a false religion is to deny the sacrifice of Christ.
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Also remember that modern Rabbinic Judaism (even if Haredi/Ultra-Orthodox) is NOT the Judaism of the Old Testament. No animal sacrifices, no Holy Temple, no Davidic monarch(even though there is a State of Israel) or other God-sanctioned leader (i.e. Judge or Mosaic successor), no Ark of the Covenant, no Prophets, no validly consecrated Kohein High Priests or Levites.
 
Just thought a CCC quote might be added to your thread:
**121 **The Old Testament is an indispensable part of Sacred Scripture. Its books are divinely inspired and retain a permanent value, for the Old Covenant has never been revoked.
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This one is often included in discussions like your thread. I’m not convinced I know what they mean by never been revoked, but anyway, there it is.
 
Pug said:
Just thought a CCC quote might be added to your thread:

This one is often included in discussions like your thread. I’m not convinced I know what they mean by never been revoked, but anyway, there it is.
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I believe what the CCC is stating is that a covenant cannot be revoked, however, it can be fulfilled and there by not be needed in the same capacity. An example might be the covenant that God made with Abraham about his descendants.
 
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