Is the physical body a 'prison' for the soul?

[Robert_Sock]

*The Golden Key to Heaven
by Saint Anthony Mary Claret

The death of the just: Death will reach everyone, the good and the bad; but the destiny of each one is quite different. The just man sees himself in this valley of tears as a prisoner, serving a very hard term. He considers himself a slave in this world, suffering an extremely distressing servitude. He regards himself a sailor caught in a horrible storm. And as death means an end of his confinement, an end of his slavery, and is the port of his salvation, he ceases not to cry with David, “Woe is me that my sojourning is prolonged!. . .” (Ps. 119:5). He ceases not to ask with the Apostle, “. . . Who shall deliver me from the body of this death?” (Rom. 7:24)*

Are we really slaves in this life? I think so. I feel destitute in this life. What will the glorified bodies be like in the World-to-Come? This earthly life is not what it seems!

 

[davidv]

The Golden Key to Heaven
by Saint Anthony Mary Claret

The death of the just: Death will reach everyone, the good and the bad; but the destiny of each one is quite different. The just man sees himself in this valley of tears as a prisoner, serving a very hard term. He considers himself a slave in this world, suffering an extremely distressing servitude. He regards himself a sailor caught in a horrible storm. And as death means an end of his confinement, an end of his slavery, and is the port of his salvation, he ceases not to cry with David, “Woe is me that my sojourning is prolonged!. . .” (Ps. 119:5). He ceases not to ask with the Apostle, “. . . Who shall deliver me from the body of this death?” (Rom. 7:24)

Are we really slaves in this life? I think so. I feel destitute in this life. What will the glorified bodies be like in the World-to-Come? This earthly life is not what it seems!

Only if you live in unrepentent sin. Alternatively, one is a child of God, no longer a slave, but free.

 

[Skeptic92]

*The Golden Key to Heaven
by Saint Anthony Mary Claret

The death of the just: Death will reach everyone, the good and the bad; but the destiny of each one is quite different. The just man sees himself in this valley of tears as a prisoner, serving a very hard term. He considers himself a slave in this world, suffering an extremely distressing servitude. He regards himself a sailor caught in a horrible storm. And as death means an end of his confinement, an end of his slavery, and is the port of his salvation, he ceases not to cry with David, “Woe is me that my sojourning is prolonged!. . .” (Ps. 119:5). He ceases not to ask with the Apostle, “. . . Who shall deliver me from the body of this death?” (Rom. 7:24)*

Are we really slaves in this life? I think so. I feel destitute in this life. What will the glorified bodies be like in the World-to-Come? This earthly life is not what it seems!

You have asked two VERY different questions, one in your post and one in the title and I’ll deal with your title question first.

Is the Physical Body a ‘prison’ for the soul?
NO, this is what was believed by the early Gnostic heretics and why they venerated Judas Iscariot for ‘freeing’ Christ’s soul from the prison of his body. However I am unsure if I am misunderstanding what you meant by this question but this required addressing as it can be boarder line heresy.

Are we really slave in this life?
Yes, as long as we do not place our focus to God and submit wholly and truly to the Divine Will then we are slaves to sin, this is simply due to our sinful nature. As to what our glorified bodies will be like after the resurrection, think of Christ at the transfiguration if I remember correctly the glorified body of Christ is similar to what our glorified body will be like on the Last Day.

 

[nagyszakall]

Slaves of sin, yes. We are born into that slavery. But Christ can free us from it. Sure, we only see dimly, as in a mirror, whereas if we go to heaven we shall see Him face to face; nevertheless, it is only our sins that can deprive us from enjoying the freedom of the children of God already here.
The physical body is definitely NOT a prison of the soul. In fact, God destined it for immortality already at the creation, and he fulfils that destiny in spite of our sins through the redemption wrought by Christ Jesus. Now, this will be totally completed at the resurrection on the last day, but that destiny already changes our mortal existence here on earth.

Saint Anthony Mary Claret uses strong terminology to express his longing for heaven, but he doesn’t say we are prisoners of the body. True, it sounds like that, especially with the quote from St Paul at the end. But St Paul is referring to the condition of sin when he writes “body of death,” and I’m sure this is how St Anthony also understood it. You can read up on Romans 7: Paul speaks about the “law of sin” which is in us, but from which Christ can free us. And Jesus doesn’t free us through OUR physical death but through HIS: when we die with the death of Christ in baptism. In fact, if one remains in sin, physical death brings no liberation, only leads to the “second death” (Rev 2:11) which is eternal punishment. So physical death is a liberation only for those who are liberated already, so to say.

So my reply to the poll would be: it depends: “everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin. The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son remains forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.” John 8:34-36

 

[DaveBj]

Answering only the question in the title, no, the body is not a prison for the soul. It’s more like an “earth suit” that enables the soul to function in the physical universe in the same way that a space suit enables a person to function in the vacuum of outer space. To illustrate, my soul wanted to post this reply, but it required my body to press the proper keys on my computer. If I hadn’t had a body, you wouldn’t be able to read these words of wit and wisdom

 

[LegoGE1947]

You have asked two VERY different questions, one in your post and one in the title and I’ll deal with your title question first.

Is the Physical Body a ‘prison’ for the soul?
NO, this is what was believed by the early Gnostic heretics and why they venerated Judas Iscariot for ‘freeing’ Christ’s soul from the prison of his body. However I am unsure if I am misunderstanding what you meant by this question but this required addressing as it can be boarder line heresy.

Are we really slave in this life?
Yes, as long as we do not place our focus to God and submit wholly and truly to the Divine Will then we are slaves to sin, this is simply due to our sinful nature. As to what our glorified bodies will be like after the resurrection, think of Christ at the transfiguration if I remember correctly the glorified body of Christ is similar to what our glorified body will be like on the Last Day.

Actually we are slaves either way, either to sin or love-slaves to righteousness. If you have read any of Paul’s epistles he often refers to himself as a slave of Christ. Being a slave to Christ sets you free from slavery to our old master the devil. The thing is, we get to choose who we will serve, but will have to bear the consequences of our decision one day.

 

[LegoGE1947]

Only if you live in unrepentent sin. Alternatively, one is a child of God, no longer a slave, but free.

People who are “transgender” often speak of being a woman trapped inside of a man’s body or vice versa. Would they get this stuff from the Gnostics who claimed that the soul is imprisoned in the body?

 

[GEddie]

People who are “transgender” often speak of being a woman trapped inside of a man’s body or vice versa. Would they get this stuff from the Gnostics who claimed that the soul is imprisoned in the body?

More likely from Platonism, which is far more mixed into the present culture than Gnosticism.

The present culture considers the mind/soul/spirit to be the human being, and the body just a four-limbed conveyance to walk the soul through life. If everybody realized that they do not have bodies, but are bodies; there could be no sense of “having the wrong body!”

Per the OQ: No, your body does not imprison your mind; it literally makes you someBODY!

ICXC NIKA

 

[Skeptic92]

People who are “transgender” often speak of being a woman trapped inside of a man’s body or vice versa. Would they get this stuff from the Gnostics who claimed that the soul is imprisoned in the body?

As Geddie said it could be from Platonic thought but it could also have a Gnostic foundation, however the simpler route would be that of Descartes whose emphasis on the Mind as the person and not the union of the Body and Soul (as found in classical Christian Philosophy).

 

[triumphguy]

I was confused by the way you set up the quiz - it’s a different question than the thread title: Is the physical body a ‘prison’ for the soul?

I answered “no” as if answering the thread title.

We aren’t gnostics, or dualists. The full human is body and soul.

 

[lifeandhope]

I will not attempt to answer this theologically, but rather will focus on my personal interpretation. I completely relate to the quote. As a person who has suffered from brain tumors, spinal cord tumors, pancreatic cancer; genetic disease and cancers in my brother, father, and two daughters; the brutal and prolonged death of my father from a brainstem tumor and kidney cancer (the genetic disease); and daily (hourly…by the minute…) pain, nausea, and illness, I can say with an emphatic YES that I am a prisoner in this brutal, sickly body of mine. For my own heart I cannot describe the brutality of my father’s death–the brainstem shut down slowly, proffering a slow, agonizing death–but that body, and my body, is a mere shell that contains the real person he and I was/am.

I know that there are theological arguments against the body being our prison, but my body is MY prison. I am a devotee of the Divine Mercy and every day when I say the chaplet my favorite part is at the beginning when praying the Creed: “I believe in…the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting.” THANK GOD I have that hope. I would be incredibly disheartened if I did not have the hope of having a cancer and pain-free body in heaven some day. I hope my Daddy is enjoying being free from the prison of his body.

 

[triumphguy]

Friend, the prison is sickness and death, and disease OF the body, not the body itself.

I pray too that you experience the resurrection of the body, and the joy that comes with it.

 

[Robert_Sock]

I will not attempt to answer this theologically, but rather will focus on my personal interpretation. I completely relate to the quote. As a person who has suffered from brain tumors, spinal cord tumors, pancreatic cancer; genetic disease and cancers in my brother, father, and two daughters; the brutal and prolonged death of my father from a brainstem tumor and kidney cancer (the genetic disease); and daily (hourly…by the minute…) pain, nausea, and illness, I can say with an emphatic YES that I am a prisoner in this brutal, sickly body of mine. For my own heart I cannot describe the brutality of my father’s death–the brainstem shut down slowly, proffering a slow, agonizing death–but that body, and my body, is a mere shell that contains the real person he and I was/am.

I know that there are theological arguments against the body being our prison, but my body is MY prison. I am a devotee of the Divine Mercy and every day when I say the chaplet my favorite part is at the beginning when praying the Creed: “I believe in…the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting.” THANK GOD I have that hope. I would be incredibly disheartened if I did not have the hope of having a cancer and pain-free body in heaven some day. I hope my Daddy is enjoying being free from the prison of his body.

With your experience you should know what I’m talking about! Seeing a person die of cancer really does alter one’s perspective!

 

[Qoeleth]

Scripture confirms the body is the prison of the soul (the Wisdom of Solomon
“The mortal body imprisons the soul, and this vessel of clay weighs down the teeming mind”

The Saints also confirm it. Saint Francis of Asissi often prayer to be delivered from the “wretched prison of the body”. John of the Cross (a Doctor of the Church) says that due to Original Sin, the soul is cast into the dark dungeon of the body.

It is also confirmed by philosophy- Plato, Cicero, Epitetus, Marcus Aurelius, E.M. Cioran.

It is NOT Gnosticism- Gnosticism is a doctrine which believes that salvation is achieved ‘Gnosis’ or a esoteric knowledge. That is what made Gnosticism a heresy. It just happens that, on this essential point of doctrine, the Gnostics happen to agree with Scripture and the saints on this point. The Gnostics also thought that Jesus was the Christ- but that does not make that an error.

Obviously, in the body we are subject to hunger, to the need for material necessities, to illness, to pain, to lust. I think it would be great to be a disembodied soul, free of pain, hunger, desire, to cast aside this worn out and uncomfortable set of fleshly clothes, to open the doors of the cage and let the soul fly free like a bird to the Heavens.

Jesus said- “It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh has nothing to offer.”

 

[Qoeleth]

*The Golden Key to Heaven
by Saint Anthony Mary Claret

The death of the just: Death will reach everyone, the good and the bad; but the destiny of each one is quite different. The just man sees himself in this valley of tears as a prisoner, serving a very hard term. He considers himself a slave in this world, suffering an extremely distressing servitude. He regards himself a sailor caught in a horrible storm. And as death means an end of his confinement, an end of his slavery, and is the port of his salvation, he ceases not to cry with David, “Woe is me that my sojourning is prolonged!. . .” (Ps. 119:5). He ceases not to ask with the Apostle, “. . . Who shall deliver me from the body of this death?” (Rom. 7:24)*

Are we really slaves in this life? I think so. I feel destitute in this life. What will the glorified bodies be like in the World-to-Come? This earthly life is not what it seems!

The earthly life is not a life which leads to death, but a death which leads to life. As Augustine says.

I would like to get a copy of that book you quote from. Its sound great. Do you know where it is available? Can’t find it on bookdepository or Amazon…

 

[tonyrey]

Why on earth would an infinitely loving Father condemn His children by creating their physical bodies as prisons for their souls?

Such a view virtually amounts to the heresy that matter is evil.

 

[Robert_Sock]

Why on earth would an infinitely loving Father condemn His children by creating their physical bodies as prisons for their souls?

Such a view virtually amounts to the heresy that matter is evil.

I suspect it all happened during the fall in the Garden of Eden. When God makes “garments of skin” He is clothing Adam and Eve in bodies of skin. I suspect that Adam and Eve were pure spirits prior to the fall.

As to your response of why an infinitely loving Father would condemn His children with ‘prisons’ for the souls, keep in mind that this loving Father allows us to be exiled within this lower world of misery and corruption.

Hail Holy Queen, Mother of Mercy, our life our sweetness and our hope. To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve; To thee do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping in this valley of tears. Turn then, most gracious advocate, thine eyes of mercy toward us and after this our exile show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus. O clement, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary!

Chabad explains the exile using the following analogies:
*
“Mitzrayim” (Egypt) means constriction, limitation. The spiritual Egyptian exile is the animal soul’s restricting and concealing the G-dly soul so severely that the G-dly soul is compressed to the degree that it is diminished and obscured. “Exodus from Egypt” is the removal of the constriction and bounds; i.e. the intellect in the brain illuminates the heart, bringing about fine character traits translated into actual practice…
– Rabbi Yosef Yitzchak of Lubavitch (as quoted in Hayom Yom, Shevat 4)*

 

[tonyrey]

I suspect it all happened during the fall in the Garden of Eden. When God makes “garments of skin” He is clothing Adam and Eve in bodies of skin. I suspect that Adam and Eve were pure spirits prior to the fall.

It’s doubtful whether that view corresponds to Catholic teaching.

As to your response of why an infinitely loving Father would condemn His children with ‘prisons’ for the souls, keep in mind that this loving Father allows us to be exiled within this lower world of misery and corruption.

Hail Holy Queen, Mother of Mercy, our life our sweetness and our hope. To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve; To thee do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping in this valley of tears. Turn then, most gracious advocate, thine eyes of mercy toward us and after this our exile show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus. O clement, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary!

Chabad explains the exile using the following analogies:
*
“Mitzrayim” (Egypt) means constriction, limitation. The spiritual Egyptian exile is the animal soul’s restricting and concealing the G-dly soul so severely that the G-dly soul is compressed to the degree that it is diminished and obscured. “Exodus from Egypt” is the removal of the constriction and bounds; i.e. the intellect in the brain illuminates the heart, bringing about fine character traits translated into actual practice…
– Rabbi Yosef Yitzchak of Lubavitch (as quoted in Hayom Yom, Shevat 4)*

In stark contrast to the way in which Jesus stressed the beauty and joy of life on earth. If Lazarus was better off dead why was he brought back from the tomb? To suffer again?

 

[Robert_Sock]

It’s doubtful whether that view corresponds to Catholic teaching.

In stark contrast to the way in which Jesus stressed the beauty and joy of life on earth. If Lazarus was better off dead why was he brought back from the tomb? To suffer again?

I can’t explain this about Lazarus. From my perspective, he had it made in death. Why Christ brought him back for a second death, I do not know.

After seeing my brother die with pancreatic cancer, I would call this life anything but ‘beauty and joy.’ This life is miserable and corrupt.

 

[tonyrey]

I can’t explain this about Lazarus. From my perspective, he had it made in death. Why Christ brought him back for a second death, I do not know.

Christ brought him back because his family would be overjoyed that he was with them fulfilling the purpose for which he was born.

After seeing my brother die with pancreatic cancer, I would call this life anything but ‘beauty and joy.’ This life is miserable and corrupt.

My brother died of prostrate cancer: he was a sceptical artist but he believed in beauty and who spent the last years of his life painting murals of Biblical scenes in a Dutch church. He agreed that we have no right to complain compared to so many poor people condemned to suffer unnecessarily because of the selfishness and greed of others.

Life is only miserable and corrupt if we have a distorted view which overlooks all the joy, beauty, richness and fulfilment for the vast majority of people in the world - except those who are condemned to suffer unnecessarily because of the selfishness and greed of others.