Is the Pope God?

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Matariel

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Hi, I’ve had a long history searching for the True Church of God on Earth, and I am currently a disgruntled Traditional Anglican. However, I am increasingly coming to believe in the Successor of St. Peter, the Pope of Rome, is the supreme head of the Church. But I recently came across these perplexing statements:

“All names which in the Scriptures are applied to Christ, by virtue of which it is established that He is over the church, all the same names are applied to the Pope.”
On the Authority of the Councils, book 2, chapter 17

“The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in Heaven and earth.”
Pope Pius V, quoted in Barclay, Chapter XXVII, p. 218, “Cities Petrus Bertanous”

“The Pope takes the place of Jesus Christ on earth…by divine right the Pope has supreme and full power in faith, in morals over each and every pastor and his flock. He is the true vicar, the head of the entire church, the father and teacher of all Christians. He is the infallible ruler, the founder of dogmas, the author of and the judge of councils; the universal ruler of truth, the arbiter of the world, the supreme judge of heaven and earth, the judge of all, being judged by no one, God himself on earth.” Quoted in the New York Catechism.

These words are written in the Roman Canon Law 1685: “To believe that our Lord God the Pope has not the power to decree as he is decreed, is to be deemed heretical.”

Father A. Pereira says: “It is quite certain that Popes have never approved or rejected this title ‘Lord God the Pope,’ for the passage in the gloss referred to appears in the edition of the Canon Law published in Rome in 1580 by Gregory XIII.”

Writers on the Canon Law say, “The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in heaven and earth.”
Barclay Cap. XXVII, p. 218. Cities Petrus Bertrandus, Pius V. - Cardinal Cusa supports his statement.

Pope Nicholas I declared: “the appellation of God had been confirmed by Constantine on the Pope, who, being God, cannot be judged by man.”
Labb IX Dist.: 96 Can. 7, Satis evidentur, Decret Gratian Primer Para

“The Pope is not only the representative of Jesus Christ, he is Jesus Christ himself, hidden under the veil of flesh.”
Catholic National, July 1895

“We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty”
Pope Leo XIII Encyclical Letter of June 20, 1894

Roman Catholic Canon Law stipulates through Pope Innocent III that the Roman pontiff is
“the vicegerent upon earth, not a mere man, but of a very God;” and in a gloss on the passage it is explained that this is because he is the vicegerent of Christ, who is “very God and very man.” Decretales Domini Gregorii translatione Episcoporum, (on the transference of Bishops), title 7, chapter 3; Corpus Juris Canonice (2nd Leipzig ed., 1881), col. 99; (Paris, 1612), tom. 2, Devretales, col. 205

So, are these Popes wrong in saying they are basically God on Earth? This is a statement on faith and morals, is it not? How is this reconcilable? :confused:
 
They have the same earthly authority Christ would have over the Church, but they’re not gods.
 
You know, all those quotes “appear” to be cut-and-pastes from a certain anti-Catholic web site --and if you use the search function I think you’ll find they have been addressed on other threads rather recently.

Some of them if I recall correctly are out and out ‘inventions’ and others are taken completely out of context. . .

“Vicar” means ‘representative’, not ‘the person himself’. A ‘representative’ of God is not God. God’s ‘prime minister’, God’s appointed leader–is still not God --yet because of the authority invested in the leader through God, that leader may act ‘for’ God.

If you read history carefully, you will see that often if a king had to leave his country (for any reason) he would appoint a prime minister or vicar to run the country FOR him whilst he was away.

The prime minister would be given a royal ‘seal’ of authority. Any decisions that the minister would make while the king was gone were to be treated as if the KING HIMSELF had made the decision. That is the kind of authority the prime minister has. He acts ‘for the king’ --his decisions while the king has put him in power are to be given the same weight as the king’s own decisions when the king is present–but he is still not the king, and when the king returns, the prime minister surrenders his staff and his power ‘back’ to the king, if the king has no further need of him.
 
Primacy of Peter
Mt 16:18 - upon this rock (Peter) I will build my church
Mt 16;19 - give you keys of the kingdom; power to bind & loose
Lk 22:32 - Peter’s faith will strengthen his brethren
Jn 21:17 - given Christ’s flock as chief shepherd
Mk 16:7 - angel sent to announce Resurrection to Peter
Lk 24:34 - risen Jesus first appeared to Peter
Acts 1:13-26 - headed meeting which elected Matthias
Acts 2:14 - led Apostles in preaching on Pentecost
Acts 2:41 - received first converts
Acts 3:6-7 - performed first miracle after Pentecost
Acts 5:1-11 - inflicted first punishment: Ananias & Saphira
Acts 8:21 - excommunicated first heretic, Simon Magnus
Acts 10:44-46 - received revelation to admit Gentiles into Church
Acts 15:7 - led first council in Jerusalem
Acts 15:19 - pronounces first dogmatic decision
Gal 1:18 - after conversion, Paul visits chief Apostle
*Gal 2:11-14 - I opposed Cephas to his face for his hypocrisy
Peter’s name always heads list of Apostles: Mt 10;14; Mk 3:16-19; Lk 6:14-16; Acts 1:13
“Peter and his companions” Lk 9:32; Mk 16:7
Spoke for Apostles - Mt 18:21; Mk 8:29; Lk 8:45; 12:41; Jn 6:69
Peter’s name occurs 195 times, more than all the rest put together

Apostolic Succession
2 Chr 19:11 - high priest is over you in everything of Lord’s
Mal 2:7 - seek instruction from priest, he is God’s messenger
Eph 2:20 - Church built upon foundation of apostles & prophets
Eph 4:11 - God gave some as apostles, others as prophets…
1 Cor 12:28-29 - God designated in church: apostles, …
Acts 1:20 - let another take his office
Acts 1:25-26 - Matthias takes Judas’ apostolic ministry
1 Tim 3:1, 8; 5:17 - qualifications for: bishops, priests, & deacons
1Tim 4:14 - gift conferred with the laying on of hands
1Tim 5:22 - do not lay hands too readily on anyone
Acts 14:23 - they appointed presbyters in each church
2Tim 2:2 - what you heard from me entrust to faithful teachers
Titus 1:5 - appoint presbyters in every town, as I directed
 
So what was with these Popes? Were they just evil, megalomaniacal men who gained the holy office of Pope? Aren’t these statements of faith and morals, and therefore infallible?
 
So what was with these Popes? Were they just evil, megalomaniacal men who gained the holy office of Pope? Aren’t these statements of faith and morals, and therefore infallible?
No Pope has ever claimed to be God, much less claimed it in an act of the Magisterium.
 
**You know, all those quotes “appear” to be cut-and-pastes from a certain anti-Catholic web site **–and if you use the search function I think you’ll find they have been addressed on other threads rather recently.

Some of them if I recall correctly are out and out ‘inventions’ and others are taken completely out of context. . .

“Vicar” means ‘representative’, not ‘the person himself’. A ‘representative’ of God is not God. God’s ‘prime minister’, God’s appointed leader–is still not God --yet because of the authority invested in the leader through God, that leader may act ‘for’ God.

If you read history carefully, you will see that often if a king had to leave his country (for any reason) he would appoint a prime minister or vicar to run the country FOR him whilst he was away.

The prime minister would be given a royal ‘seal’ of authority. Any decisions that the minister would make while the king was gone were to be treated as if the KING HIMSELF had made the decision. That is the kind of authority the prime minister has. He acts ‘for the king’ --his decisions while the king has put him in power are to be given the same weight as the king’s own decisions when the king is present–but he is still not the king, and when the king returns, the prime minister surrenders his staff and his power ‘back’ to the king, if the king has no further need of him.
Yep, I agree!

I just did a google search on just this one phase,
"Catholic National, July 1895". So take your pick;
google.com/search?q=Catholic+National%2C+July+1895+&sourceid=navclient-ff&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1B3GGGL_enUS283US283😃

Matariel, Never has a pope declared himself God or god. And I have to question your research.:mad:
 
The answer to your question is NO.

So we can understand where you are coming from with such a question and such incorrect sources, please explain your profile

It says you are a Metaran, formerly Metatron. A Llulist Kaballist Anglican. Would you please be so kind as to enlighten those of us, particularly me, who are ignorant as to what these terms mean.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
 
So what was with these Popes? Were they just evil, megalomaniacal men who gained the holy office of Pope? Aren’t these statements of faith and morals, and therefore infallible?
First, I would suggest that you do some research into these quotes. Some of them may be either taken out of context, inaccurately quoted, or complete fabrications. It would be far too lengthy of an enterprise for most of us posters to address each and every quote separately, but it is not entirely fair to address them all together as each quote has a different context. Some of the quotes may be from infallible statements. Some may not. Some of the quotes may be accurate. Some of them may not.

Second, we have to be very careful about taking our own 21st century American usage of language and applying it retroactively to other times and other cultures. This is why context is so important. You have to look at the quotation in terms of the entire document or statement in order to understand what is being put forward.

To speak generally, what it all comes down to is that the pope has been entrusted by God to a very special office. Any authority the pope has comes from God, but he does have authority. He acts as God’s representative, but he is not God. And the only reason that we believe this as Catholics is because that’s what Jesus himself established when he promised to build the Church upon Peter.
 
Please provide a complete citation or at least a link to the original documents. Especially for the quotes attributed to Pope Pius V and Pope Nicholas I, I have googled for the originals and cannot find them. Furthermore, I have read forum debates in which the anti-catholic poster immediately resorted to ad hominem attacks when asked to provide sources and citations.

So please do that.

Also, Pope Leo XIII says that the Pope takes the place of God, not that he is God.

And for the record, sources like Catholic National are just silly to bring up. They do not exercise any teaching authority.
 
Aren’t these statements of faith and morals, and therefore infallible?
No. Mere “statements” on faith or morals are not infallible.

“When the Roman pontiff speaks EX CATHEDRA – that is, when, in the exercise of his office as shepherd and teacher of all Christians, in virtue of his supreme apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine concerning faith or morals to be held by the whole church – he possesses, by the divine assistance promised to him in blessed Peter, that infallibility which the divine Redeemer willed his church to enjoy in defining doctrine concerning faith or morals.” (Vatican I)
 
Why do I get the feeling this original post is trolling?
I wondered that, too, but the OP has been around for a few weeks and has posted a fair amount in that time. Usually, when people troll, it seems that they’re brand new members with only a handful of posts.
 
I hope he comes back because I want to know if there are any valid sources. I’m pretty sure anti-catholics just take this on hearsay.
 
So are many of them that the poster posted. I think the poster just got the information somewhere on the internet without knowing the real source of it.

No, the Pope is not God. That is the least I could understand about my faith. 🙂

If anyone searches these phrase “Catholic National, July 1895”, the anti-Catholic site that many will recognize will be the first on the search result.
 
Why do I get the feeling this original post is trolling?
Why is everyone questioning my sincerity? 😦

Ugh, I really want to hear how Catholics react to this, 'cause every time I defend Roman Catholics and their beliefs, they say stuff like, “Didn’t the Pope claim to be God on Earth, or Lord God the Pope?”

And I see these quotes, and I was wondering, are they forgeries, bad Popes making fallible statements, etc.?

I don’t know why I never get treated seriously…
 
Why is everyone questioning my sincerity? 😦

Ugh, I really want to hear how Catholics react to this, 'cause every time I defend Roman Catholics and their beliefs, they say stuff like, “Didn’t the Pope claim to be God on Earth, or Lord God the Pope?”

And I see these quotes, and I was wondering, are they forgeries, bad Popes making fallible statements, etc.?

I don’t know why I never get treated seriously…
First of all, none of the Popes you quoted were “bad Popes”. Two of them are canonized.

Secondly, I will take you more seriously if you get me the sources I asked you for. I have a hard time taking people seriously when they take what they get from highly biased web sites and don’t follow up with more research.
 
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