Is the Pope God?

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nor reliable sources over mistakes

oops-

unreliable sources over reliable sources …:cool: is wrong :):cool: 👍
 
Hi Matariel! Let’s take on your passages one by one:

“All names which in the Scriptures are applied to Christ, by virtue of which it is established that He is over the church, all the same names are applied to the Pope.”
On the Authority of the Councils, book 2, chapter 17

“The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in Heaven and earth.”
Pope Pius V, quoted in Barclay, Chapter XXVII, p. 218, “Cities Petrus Bertanous”
“The Pope takes the place of Jesus Christ on earth…by divine right the Pope has supreme and full power in faith, in morals over each and every pastor and his flock. He is the true vicar, the head of the entire church, the father and teacher of all Christians. He is the infallible ruler, the founder of dogmas, the author of and the judge of councils; the universal ruler of truth, the arbiter of the world, the supreme judge of heaven and earth, the judge of all, being judged by no one, God himself on earth.” Quoted in the New York Catechism.
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The New York Catechism is a locally-published catechism, meaning that while it has the authority of the local Magisterium,

These words are written in the Roman Canon Law 1685: “To believe that our Lord God the Pope has not the power to decree as he is decreed, is to be deemed heretical.”

Father A. Pereira says: “It is quite certain that Popes have never approved or rejected this title ‘Lord God the Pope,’ for the passage in the gloss referred to appears in the edition of the Canon Law published in Rome in 1580 by Gregory XIII.”

Writers on the Canon Law say, “The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in heaven and earth.”
Barclay Cap. XXVII, p. 218. Cities Petrus Bertrandus, Pius V. - Cardinal Cusa supports his statement.

Pope Nicholas I declared: “the appellation of God had been confirmed by Constantine on the Pope, who, being God, cannot be judged by man.”
Labb IX Dist.: 96 Can. 7, Satis evidentur, Decret Gratian Primer Para
“The Pope is not only the representative of Jesus Christ, he is Jesus Christ himself, hidden under the veil of flesh.”
Catholic National, July 1895
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That quote had actually appeared from the Protestant magazine Evangelical Christendom, January 1, 1895. It also appeared in another Protestant magazine, “Church Review,” in England, October 3, 1895. The article in the magazine charges Cardinal Sarto, Archbishop of Venice, with having uttered those words at Venice. Cardinal Sarto was elected Pope in 1903.
But as soon as the charge was made in 1895 that Cardinal Sarto had said those words, inquiries were sent from England to Venice, and Cardinal Sarto produced the manuscipt of his discourse. What the Pope actually said is:
The Pope represents Jesus Christ Himself, and therefore is a loving father. The life of the Pope is a holocaust of love for the human family. His word is love; love, his weapon; love, the answer he gives to all who hate him; love, his flag, i.e., the Cross, which signed the greatest triumph on Earth and in Heaven.
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“We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty”
Pope Leo XIII Encyclical Letter of June 20, 1894
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This was taken from Pope Leo’s Encyclical, Praeclara Gratulationis Publicae, which called for the reunion of Eastern and Western churches into the “Unity of the Faith”. The Pope just reaffirms his position as the vicar, the representative of Christ (thus ‘we hold upon this Earth the place of God’); he’s not claiming to be God:
…A great deal, however, has been wanting to the entire fulness of that consolation. Amidst these very manifestations of public joy and reverence Our thoughts went out towards the immense multitude of those who are strangers to the gladness that filled all Catholic hearts: some because they lie in absolute ignorance of the Gospel; others because they dissent from the Catholic belief, though they bear the same name of Christians.
This thought has been, and is, a source of deep concern to Us; for it is impossible to think of such a large portion of mankind deviating, as it were, from the right path, as they move away from Us, and not experience a sentiment of innermost grief.
But since We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty, who will have all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth, and now that Our advanced age and the bitterness of anxious cares urge Us on towards the end common to every mortal, We feel drawn to follow the example of Our Redeemer and Master, Jesus Christ, who when about to return to heaven, implored of God, His Father, in earnest prayer, that His disciples and followers should be of one mind and of one heart: I pray … that they all may be one, as thou Father in Me, and I in Thee: that they also may be one in Us. And as this divine prayer and supplication does not include only the souls who then believed in Jesus Christ, but also every one of those who were henceforth to believe in Him, this prayer holds out to Us no indifferent reason for confidently expressing Our hopes, and for making all possible endeavors in order that the men of every race and clime should be called and moved to embrace the unity of divine faith.
Click to expand...
Roman Catholic Canon Law stipulates through Pope Innocent III that the Roman pontiff is
“the vicegerent upon earth, not a mere man, but of a very God;” and in a gloss on the passage it is explained that this is because he is the vicegerent of Christ, who is “very God and very man.” Decretales Domini Gregorii translatione Episcoporum, (on the transference of Bishops), title 7, chapter 3; Corpus Juris Canonice (2nd Leipzig ed., 1881), col. 99; (Paris, 1612), tom. 2, Devretales, col. 205
So, are these Popes wrong in saying they are basically God on Earth? This is a statement on faith and morals, is it not? How is this reconcilable? :confused:
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For one, many of these quotes are not made by the Popes themselves, so they’re not really claiming to be. Another is that some of these are misquoted and taken out of context.
 
Hi Matariel! Let’s take on three of your passages one by one (I’ll answer the other ones as soon I’ve done my research):
These words are written in the Roman Canon Law 1685: “To believe that our Lord God the Pope has not the power to decree as he is decreed, is to be deemed heretical.”
Click to expand...
Father A. Pereira says: “It is quite certain that Popes have never approved or rejected this title ‘Lord God the Pope,’ for the passage in the gloss referred to appears in the edition of the Canon Law published in Rome in 1580 by Gregory XIII.”
Click to expand...
1.) We are not told who this Fr. A. Pereira is, or whether he was even an actual priest or whether his statement (if he did exist or did make that statement) actually happened. We’re just made to take it at face value.
2.) Pope Gregory XIII’s edition of the Canon Law was published in 1582.
3.) The gloss does not appear even in this edition of the Canon Law.
4.) If someone were to write a false statement in relation to another written work, how does that affect the truth?

Just because an edition supposedly contained a (false) gloss does not automatically make that gloss true. Fr. Pereira, whoever he is, makes a faulty logic here: Just because the gloss is in the Canon Law edition, he says, the gloss itself must be approved. I might as well write ‘all penguins can fly long distances’ in a copy of the Catechism; does that now make my statement true?
“The Pope is not only the representative of Jesus Christ, he is Jesus Christ himself, hidden under the veil of flesh.”
Catholic National, July 1895
Click to expand...
That quote had actually appeared from the Protestant magazine Evangelical Christendom, January 1, 1895. It also appeared in another Protestant magazine, “Church Review,” in England, October 3, 1895. The article in the magazine charges Cardinal Sarto, Archbishop of Venice, with having uttered those words at Venice. Cardinal Sarto was elected Pope in 1903.
But as soon as the charge was made in 1895 that Cardinal Sarto had said those words, inquiries were sent from England to Venice, and Cardinal Sarto produced the manuscipt of his discourse. What the Pope actually said is:
The Pope represents Jesus Christ Himself, and therefore is a loving father. The life of the Pope is a holocaust of love for the human family. His word is love; love, his weapon; love, the answer he gives to all who hate him; love, his flag, i.e., the Cross, which signed the greatest triumph on Earth and in Heaven.
Click to expand...
“We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty”
Pope Leo XIII Encyclical Letter of June 20, 1894
Click to expand...
This was taken from Pope Leo’s Encyclical, Praeclara Gratulationis Publicae, which called for the reunion of Eastern and Western churches into the “Unity of the Faith”. The Pope just reaffirms his position as the vicar, the representative of Christ (thus ‘we hold upon this Earth the place of God’); he’s not claiming to be God:
…A great deal, however, has been wanting to the entire fulness of that consolation. Amidst these very manifestations of public joy and reverence Our thoughts went out towards the immense multitude of those who are strangers to the gladness that filled all Catholic hearts: some because they lie in absolute ignorance of the Gospel; others because they dissent from the Catholic belief, though they bear the same name of Christians.
This thought has been, and is, a source of deep concern to Us; for it is impossible to think of such a large portion of mankind deviating, as it were, from the right path, as they move away from Us, and not experience a sentiment of innermost grief.
But since We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty, who will have all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth, and now that Our advanced age and the bitterness of anxious cares urge Us on towards the end common to every mortal, We feel drawn to follow the example of Our Redeemer and Master, Jesus Christ, who when about to return to heaven, implored of God, His Father, in earnest prayer, that His disciples and followers should be of one mind and of one heart: I pray … that they all may be one, as thou Father in Me, and I in Thee: that they also may be one in Us. And as this divine prayer and supplication does not include only the souls who then believed in Jesus Christ, but also every one of those who were henceforth to believe in Him, this prayer holds out to Us no indifferent reason for confidently expressing Our hopes, and for making all possible endeavors in order that the men of every race and clime should be called and moved to embrace the unity of divine faith…
Click to expand...
So, are these Popes wrong in saying they are basically God on Earth? This is a statement on faith and morals, is it not? How is this reconcilable? :confused:
Click to expand...
For one, many of these quotes are not made by the Popes themselves. Another is that a number of these are misquoted, misattributed and taken out of context (there is also a chance that a few were just confected out of thin air; i.e. these don’t actually exist).
 
You guys are great. I just ran across these quotes, which are a bit shocking at first glance, and started googling around to see if they were real. First place I found was this.
 
paul12 said:
You guys are great. I just ran across these quotes, which are a bit shocking at first glance, and started googling around to see if they were real. First place I found was this.
Click to expand...
I’m glad we were the first place you found rather than some of those other sites where these quotes appear! 🙂

Welcome to CAF! 👋
 
If Jesus is God and worthy of worship and praise and God commanded that we should bow before no man except him. Then why when Jesus disciples came to bow before him to wash his feet did he tell them no I shall wash your feet and he humbled himself to them. I believe it is because Jesus was telling us not to pray to and worship him. I believe a lot of Christians and others have mistaken what he said. He told the pharisees when questioned " Are you God?" that he and the Father where one in the same. This is not saying he is God it is saying that he and the father are the same the same way me and my father are one in the same from the same seed. Just as the fruit of a tree is one in the same as the tree and one day it’s seeds will grow into a tree. On another note, the number one sign to me that the Pope is not a firm believer in the teachings of Christ is the countless photos I have seen of him allowing his followers to bow before him and kiss his hand or ring or whatever. If he has heard the story of Jesus not even allowing his own disciples to wash his feet how could he see no wrong in this. It is because he believes or claims to have all the powers of God here on earth. Can you say blasphemy? I read that myself on the Catholic Church’s web site also they believe that NO one except their priest are worthy of interpreting the bible. That is their way of refuting people like me that have actually took the time and have the ability to read and understand the book. I also do not believe the bible is the word of God. I do believe it contains the words of God and his son and the rest was written by man with good intentions but should not be revered as the Word of God except when it is dictation of the word of God and his Son. Jesus came with a message that is why he was called the Messiah. I am not trying to say Jesus is bad I just look at him as a brother and teacher not a Lord or master. All praise be to the Father! Remember when Jesus talked of God he said the Father not I. If anyone can find evidence of God or Jesus saying anything to the contrary let me know. I know I am not perfect and I am full of faults. If you find any grammatical errors just keep them to yourselves. I never was very good in English class I always did better with math.
 
Matariel said:
Hi, I’ve had a long history searching for the True Church of God on Earth, and I am currently a disgruntled Traditional Anglican. However, I am increasingly coming to believe in the Successor of St. Peter, the Pope of Rome, is the supreme head of the Church. But I recently came across these perplexing statements:

“All names which in the Scriptures are applied to Christ, by virtue of which it is established that He is over the church, all the same names are applied to the Pope.”
On the Authority of the Councils, book 2, chapter 17

“The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in Heaven and earth.”
Pope Pius V, quoted in Barclay, Chapter XXVII, p. 218, “Cities Petrus Bertanous”

“The Pope takes the place of Jesus Christ on earth…by divine right the Pope has supreme and full power in faith, in morals over each and every pastor and his flock. He is the true vicar, the head of the entire church, the father and teacher of all Christians. He is the infallible ruler, the founder of dogmas, the author of and the judge of councils; the universal ruler of truth, the arbiter of the world, the supreme judge of heaven and earth, the judge of all, being judged by no one, God himself on earth.” Quoted in the New York Catechism.

These words are written in the Roman Canon Law 1685: “To believe that our Lord God the Pope has not the power to decree as he is decreed, is to be deemed heretical.”

Father A. Pereira says: “It is quite certain that Popes have never approved or rejected this title ‘Lord God the Pope,’ for the passage in the gloss referred to appears in the edition of the Canon Law published in Rome in 1580 by Gregory XIII.”

Writers on the Canon Law say, “The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in heaven and earth.”
Barclay Cap. XXVII, p. 218. Cities Petrus Bertrandus, Pius V. - Cardinal Cusa supports his statement.

Pope Nicholas I declared: “the appellation of God had been confirmed by Constantine on the Pope, who, being God, cannot be judged by man.”
Labb IX Dist.: 96 Can. 7, Satis evidentur, Decret Gratian Primer Para

“The Pope is not only the representative of Jesus Christ, he is Jesus Christ himself, hidden under the veil of flesh.”
Catholic National, July 1895

“We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty”
Pope Leo XIII Encyclical Letter of June 20, 1894

Roman Catholic Canon Law stipulates through Pope Innocent III that the Roman pontiff is
“the vicegerent upon earth, not a mere man, but of a very God;” and in a gloss on the passage it is explained that this is because he is the vicegerent of Christ, who is “very God and very man.” Decretales Domini Gregorii translatione Episcoporum, (on the transference of Bishops), title 7, chapter 3; Corpus Juris Canonice (2nd Leipzig ed., 1881), col. 99; (Paris, 1612), tom. 2, Devretales, col. 205

So, are these Popes wrong in saying they are basically God on Earth? This is a statement on faith and morals, is it not? How is this reconcilable? :confused:
Click to expand...
I’m no expert on this topic, but I would guess this is the usual case of taking quotations out of context, perhaps doctoring them a bit, and then presenting them as if they were plain truth. Although certain Popes in history said and did some not-so-nice things (and I’m being generous), I doubt any of them would claim to be G-d. That would be entirely contrary to Christian dogma.
 
matdiln said:
If Jesus is God and worthy of worship and praise and God commanded that we should bow before no man except him. Then why when Jesus disciples came to bow before him to wash his feet did he tell them no I shall wash your feet and he humbled himself to them. I believe it is because Jesus was telling us not to pray to and worship him. I believe a lot of Christians and others have mistaken what he said. He told the pharisees when questioned " Are you God?" that he and the Father where one in the same. This is not saying he is God it is saying that he and the father are the same the same way me and my father are one in the same from the same seed. Just as the fruit of a tree is one in the same as the tree and one day it’s seeds will grow into a tree. On another note, the number one sign to me that the Pope is not a firm believer in the teachings of Christ is the countless photos I have seen of him allowing his followers to bow before him and kiss his hand or ring or whatever. If he has heard the story of Jesus not even allowing his own disciples to wash his feet how could he see no wrong in this. It is because he believes or claims to have all the powers of God here on earth. Can you say blasphemy? I read that myself on the Catholic Church’s web site also they believe that NO one except their priest are worthy of interpreting the bible. That is their way of refuting people like me that have actually took the time and have the ability to read and understand the book. I also do not believe the bible is the word of God. I do believe it contains the words of God and his son and the rest was written by man with good intentions but should not be revered as the Word of God except when it is dictation of the word of God and his Son. Jesus came with a message that is why he was called the Messiah. I am not trying to say Jesus is bad I just look at him as a brother and teacher not a Lord or master. All praise be to the Father! Remember when Jesus talked of God he said the Father not I. If anyone can find evidence of God or Jesus saying anything to the contrary let me know. I know I am not perfect and I am full of faults. If you find any grammatical errors just keep them to yourselves. I never was very good in English class I always did better with math.
Click to expand...
Since you still call yourself Christian (not Jewish or Muslim), I can only conclude you are either a Jehovah’s Witness, Mormon, or Seventh-Day Adventist. Am I correct? BTW, this is not an accusation.
 
I agree…OT/NT is a zig-zag line with Sinners and Saints, still moving foward though. Just research the geneology of Jesus Christ in Matthew 1, 28 generations, 14 to King David, 14 to Jesus Christ. Definately a zig-zig line of Sinners and Saints which ultimately leads to Jesus.

Anyway, The Roman Pontiff, the successor of the Apostle St Peter, is the bishop of Rome, pastor of the whole Church, being head of the college of bishops.

Fast google sights are notorius for spreading half-truths.
 
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