Is the Pope/ Vatican rich?

[sw85]

Hi guys, I was involved in a discussion with 2 of my workmates (both lapsed Catholics) the other day and this topic came up. We often have discussions about religion, morals etc and I feel I defend the Church quite well. However, they were saying that the Pope and the Vatican is rich and could easily wipe out 3rd world debt in an instant. Also asking why the pope has a large jewelled ring when there are people starving.
I wasn’t too sure how to refute these accusations, and I have heard them before, mainly from protestants.

If anyone has any info on this I would be very grateful!

God Bless.

The Vatican’s annual budget is less than half a billion dollars, and it is in debt for more than that amount. It’s not really “rich,” except perhaps relative to its (very small) size. Most of the money donated to the Church doesn’t leave the diocese.

The Church, bear in mind, is a nonprofit organization. Priests aren’t paid anything more than they need to live. Deacons, I think, are given a modest stipend (if that). Their money goes to (a) paying their employees (who aren’t very well-paid), (b) maintaining their facilities, including their churches, (c) to charity organizations and efforts, as well as missions; and things of that nature. And, of course, to retiring debt.

Most of the criticism directed at the Vatican is with respect to item (b), maintaining their facilities. Why, the critics ask, does the Church spend so much money maintaining these elaborate, ornate facilities when people starve?

Let’s keep some perspective here. Let’s say the Vatican spends 20% of its annual budget on upkeep for its facilities. That works out to about $70 million dollars. African debt is in the hundred-billions range. The Vatican’s facilities budget would be a drop in the bucket. And bear in mind that 20% figure is probably vastly overstated.

At any rate, the criticism fails to apprehend an important point: beauty matters. It draws the eye up towards God and alerts the viewer to something that transcends himself. This is as true for the poor as it is for the rich. We are losing this sense in the west as we replace our big, vast, beautiful ornate churches with horrid, austere, round things, but nevertheless its true. Most of the Church’s critics are either Protestant iconoclasts or atheist materialists who think beauty’s a fiction, anyway.

 

[tarboy]

Well I must say that I am thankful for the wide range of responses and I have not made a definitive position yet but I will certainly dwell on these posts. As I always refer to this quote to make sure I look at all sides of a story., “Better to ask a question than to remain ignorant.” God bless.

It helps if you keep it all in perspective

• The wealth/assets have been accumulated over 1,500 years, through gifts.
• The Pope wears the ring while in office, but it’s never his to dispose of. Think of it as his uniform, which made more sense 500 years ago vs our modern ‘casual friday’ attitude.
• Know the annual spend by Catholic Charities to help the needy

Also, nobody who works in international development will agree that paying off the debt of the third world will solve their problems. If other fundamental changes in goverment and culture are not made, they will just be back in severe debt given some time. This shifts to focus to what the church is trying to do in these countries.

Haiti provides a sad example. They’ve probably received more foreign aid per capita than any othe rcountry, yet they’ve made no progress over the past 20 years in improved stability and standard of living. Sometimes the answer isn’t a blank check.

 

[TarkanAttila]

It helps if you keep it all in perspective

• The wealth/assets have been accumulated over 1,500 years, through gifts.
• The Pope wears the ring while in office, but it’s never his to dispose of. Think of it as his uniform, which made more sense 500 years ago vs our modern ‘casual friday’ attitude.
• Know the annual spend by Catholic Charities to help the needy

Also, nobody who works in international development will agree that paying off the debt of the third world will solve their problems. If other fundamental changes in goverment and culture are not made, they will just be back in severe debt given some time. This shifts to focus to what the church is trying to do in these countries.

Haiti provides a sad example. They’ve probably received more foreign aid per capita than any othe rcountry, yet they’ve made no progress over the past 20 years in improved stability and standard of living. Sometimes the answer isn’t a blank check.

This. The problem is not a lack of resources. It’s a lack of discipline, and an abundance of corruption.

 

[mzungu2006]

Vatican City uses these things to make a living. The vast majority of VC’s economy is tourism. You sell the art, you sell their means of living. It’s like telling a dairy farmer to sell his cows so the destitute can slaughter them to eat. A good short-term move. A horrible long-term move.

Good point…I guess it would also like telling a fisherman to drop their nets to and follow Jesus. It’s a good thing that Simon and Peter didn’t respond back and say, “But I use these things to make a living. My income is based on fishing. If I drop my nets (not to mention leaving my boat), I’ll have no way of making a living. Being a fisher of men is a good short-term move, but a horrible long-term move.”

Perhaps the best advice is Jesus’ words when he made Peter the first Pope, Matthew 16:16-19

Jesus said to him in reply, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father. And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and you will need much money to sustain my church. Gather among you riches and great works of art, preserve them, and use them to make a living for tourism. Forget what I said earlier about selling everything you have, now is the time to buy…buy…BUY!”

…wait, maybe I’m remembering that wrong. When did Jesus say that earning a living should be primary in your life. Was it the “consider the lillies of the valley” verse? No, that was something else.

What was the verse where Jesus advised amassing wealth?

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

Good point…I guess it would also like telling a fisherman to drop their nets to and follow Jesus. It’s a good thing that Simon and Peter didn’t respond back and say, “But I use these things to make a living. My income is based on fishing. If I drop my nets (not to mention leaving my boat), I’ll have no way of making a living. Being a fisher of men is a good short-term move, but a horrible long-term move.”

Perhaps the best advice is Jesus’ words when he made Peter the first Pope, Matthew 16:16-19

Jesus said to him in reply, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father. And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and you will need much money to sustain my church. Gather among you riches and great works of art, preserve them, and use them to make a living for tourism. Forget what I said earlier about selling everything you have, now is the time to buy…buy…BUY!”

…wait, maybe I’m remembering that wrong. When did Jesus say that earning a living should be primary in your life. Was it the “consider the lillies of the valley” verse? No, that was something else.

What was the verse where Jesus advised amassing wealth?

Should the Church sell the common heritage of mankind so that a few may profit temporarily?

 

[Rolltide]

What was the verse where Jesus advised amassing wealth?

Well, despite everything he said, Jesus STILL worshiped at the fabulously adorned Temple of Solomon, and was a faithful Jew…

Also, a large amount of the money from the tourism goes to the needy, which is where a big chunk of the charitable aid the Vatican gives actually comes from.

 

[Holly3278]

One could also come back and say “Well, what if all of the mega-rich televangelists sold all their property and gave it to the poor?”

 

[Cristiano]

Good point…I guess it would also like telling a fisherman to drop their nets to and follow Jesus. It’s a good thing that Simon and Peter didn’t respond back and say, “But I use these things to make a living. My income is based on fishing. If I drop my nets (not to mention leaving my boat), I’ll have no way of making a living. Being a fisher of men is a good short-term move, but a horrible long-term move.”

Perhaps the best advice is Jesus’ words when he made Peter the first Pope, Matthew 16:16-19

Jesus said to him in reply, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father. And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and you will need much money to sustain my church. Gather among you riches and great works of art, preserve them, and use them to make a living for tourism. Forget what I said earlier about selling everything you have, now is the time to buy…buy…BUY!”

…wait, maybe I’m remembering that wrong. When did Jesus say that earning a living should be primary in your life. Was it the “consider the lillies of the valley” verse? No, that was something else.

What was the verse where Jesus advised amassing wealth?

So, have you given all your money and properties to the poor?

 

[Non_sum_dignus]

Should the Church sell the common heritage of mankind so that a few may profit temporarily?

This would have been my point. The “opulence” of the Church is mainly the history of Western Civilization. Since the Church is the only institution to have been existence through the whole of said civilization, it’s only logical that the Church safeguard its historical treasures.

As for the fabulous wealth enjoyed by the Pope, it would make for a great reality series to have westerners whining about his adornments have to live like he does for a month or so. Not only does the Pope not own the trappings of his office or the treasures in the Vatican, he scarcely owns a single hour of his time.

The vestments may be shiny, but those are to reflect the glory of Christ. The Pope lives very much like those why ventured out in the desert with almost nothing in the early Church.