Is the Quran false?

[TheSufi]

This may be a reference to the Sana’a manuscript found some decades ago in Yemen. It offers variant spellings, words and order of the surahs. There are some articles on the web and apparently extensive scholarship.

The manuscript proves that the Koran did not “fall out of the sky” as the Muslims like to claim, but has textual history and is a product of significant editing. Whether it is corrupted or not is not for me to say.

The Quran was revealed in 10 different modes of recitations based on the different dialects of the Quraysh tribe, thus there are variant spellings and words. In terms of order of the Surah. The Quran isn’t recited in chronological order, some people may have written in the Quran in chronological order or the most common method is the order in which it is recited, by the Angel Gabriel to Prophet Muhammad. It is also possible for a person to write the Quran in the way he or she personally learned it, but that has no effect on the chronological order or the order in which it is recited.

Also with regard to the spelling in the Quran, it is not written according to modern Arabic standards. It was written in a way to preserve all forms of recitation, thus the Quran has a specific writing style unique to it, which is based on the Uthmani copy of the Quran.

Here is an example.

Sura 1:4 Maliki yuwmideen. Or Maaliki yuwmideen.

Malik with one a and two a’s. And both has two different meanings, One means, King of the Day of Judgement. And the second means, Owner of the entire affair of the day of judgement.

And God Knows best.

 

[Ontheway]

The Quran was revealed in 10 different modes of recitations based on the different dialects of the Quraysh tribe,

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How did this happen? Did Mohamed repeat each passages 10 times in different dialects? Did the angel speak to Mohamed 10 times in different dialects?
If this is the case, why did God limit himself to only 10? Why not other dialects and languages?
Or were the Quraysh the chosen people and their dialects the chosen dialects?
If this is the case, what was it that merited such an honor? Why did God choose that particular tribe of all the tribes?

 

[Reuben_J]

How did this happen? Did Mohamed repeat each passages 10 times in different dialects? Did the angel speak to Mohamed 10 times in different dialects?
If this is the case, why did God limit himself to only 10? Why not other dialects and languages?
Or were the Quraysh the chosen people and their dialects the chosen dialects?
If this is the case, what was it that merited such an honor? Why did God choose that particular tribe of all the tribes?

This really boggles the mind.

Remember the Quran is a recital. Allah gave the revelation to angel Gabriel, and Gabriel who did not have a mind of his own (as what the Muslims want to believe), in other word he was like a robot, recited the Quran to Mohammad. Mohammad tried to remember it and recited it to his family and friends. Any mistakes in the recital, any sentence forgotten, it would render the revelation null and void.

According to Muslims, no mistakes were made in compiling the Quran.

So unless Gabriel recited the Quran in 10 different ways and Mohammad did the same accordingly in 10 different ways, there is no reason why the Quran was written in 10 different dialects. Thus this really boggles the mind in how it was actually done.

Muslims who are actually so sure that the Quran is the word of Allah recorded verbatim, have to be sure that the entire process of compiling the Quran is foolproof and that the whole thing is from Allah; nothing missed and nothing lost.

So how did it come in 10 different dialects? How and why was Quraish chosen and not the other dialects? If Quraish was chosen as the preferred dialect, why was the Quran recited in the other nine dialects? Was there automatic translation when it is recited in another dialect, or as the question is, did Gabriel and Mohammad had to recite 10 times in the 10 dialects each? If they did, then you have to have 10 different scribes at least to remember the recited Quran. Oh, my.

 

[TheSufi]

How did this happen? Did Mohamed repeat each passages 10 times in different dialects? Did the angel speak to Mohamed 10 times in different dialects?
If this is the case, why did God limit himself to only 10? Why not other dialects and languages?
Or were the Quraysh the chosen people and their dialects the chosen dialects?
If this is the case, what was it that merited such an honor? Why did God choose that particular tribe of all the tribes?

It is my understanding,The Quran was revealed in 7 dialects of which there are 10 modes of recitation. And the Angel Jibriel recited these 7 dialects to Prophet Muhammad, in all 10 modes of recitation.

Ibn Abbas reported that Prophet Muhammad said, “Gabriel recited the Quran in one dialect, and I recited it back to him, but I request him to increase (the number of dialects) and he continued to increase it for me, until we stopped at seven dialects.”

The Quran was revealed in the Arabic language. God choose to reveal in the Arabic language as a way of honoring the Arabs. And God knows best.

 

[Timi_Celcer]

Sufi why are you ignoring the logical fallacies of the Quran and remaining a muslim? Why are you searching for Bible mistakes and convincing yourself that there are some?
Why do you keep a closed heart for Christianity? What is in your way of becoming a Christian?

 

[ScottEH]

That really isn’t a very good argument to use.

P1 can be called into question simply by stating that God’s word *could be *corrupted outside of the Qur’an. God chose his word to be incorruptible only in the Qur’an, one could respond, because of some special quality he gives it but nothing else.

P2. Isn’t factual. Muslims acknowledge that that which agrees with the Qur’an that is likewise in the Bible, is correct; and that that which disagrees with the Qur’an is corruption.

P3 Irrelevant to Muslim thinking. Since Muslims beg the question with regard to analysing the “faults” of the Bible as compared to those of the Qur’an, this is simply evidence, to them, of corruption.

P4 Muslims would disagree, since they hold that the Qur’an is eternal.

I agree with most of this, but I think his first proposition is perfectly fine.

Since Muslims believe the Qur’an to be the literal speech of God, logic follows that such a thing would be incorruptible, does it not? How could one corrupt something that, according to Sunni belief, has existed as God’s word eternally?

If I am not mistaken, Muslims (or at least most Sunnis) believe that the Tawrah (Torah), Zabur (no idea what this is, but wikipedia thinks it could be Psalms) , and Injil (the Gospel, apparently. Though we have no evidence of anything other than what the Apostles wrote ) were likewise God’s word dictated to His prophets. If they have the same status as existing as part of the divine consciousness for all of eternity, I think it stands to reason that they would likewise be incorruptible.

Maybe I’m wrong, but I think what I just explained seems fairly reasonable.

 

[Reuben_J]

It is my understanding,The Quran was revealed in 7 dialects of which there are 10 modes of recitation. And the Angel Jibriel recited these 7 dialects to Prophet Muhammad, in all 10 modes of recitation.

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Too bad caliph Uthman did not think the other six dialects were worthy of the Quran.

And if the Quran was revealed in 7 dialects, it is too bad we can never know what were in the other six dialects today. Too bad the word of Allah which he thought could be revealed in seven dialects and that only one dialect was kept by his human administrators. Wonder whether Mohammad would be happy with this.

 

[Methos]

It is my understanding,The Quran was revealed in 7 dialects of which there are 10 modes of recitation. And the Angel Jibriel recited these 7 dialects to Prophet Muhammad, in all 10 modes of recitation.

Ibn Abbas reported that Prophet Muhammad said, “Gabriel recited the Quran in one dialect, and I recited it back to him, but I request him to increase (the number of dialects) and he continued to increase it for me, until we stopped at seven dialects.”

The Quran was revealed in the Arabic language. God choose to reveal in the Arabic language as a way of honoring the Arabs. And God knows best.

Isn’t there a possibility that the words would mean different things in those different dialects? For example, in English, the word “bonnet” can mean different things. To an American, it means a type of women’s hats, but to a British speaker, it’s a car hood.

 

[TheSufi]

Isn’t there a possibility that the words would mean different things in those different dialects? For example, in English, the word “bonnet” can mean different things. To an American, it means a type of women’s hats, but to a British speaker, it’s a car hood.

Not only is it possible, but different meaning do exist. The companions differed concerning certain issue due to difference in language. But most of these these differences are within the realm of acceptable differences.

And God knows best.

 

[Ontheway]

Not only is it possible, but different meaning do exist. The companions differed concerning certain issue due to difference in language. But most of these these differences are within the realm of acceptable differences.

And God knows best.

So, what happened to the claim that the Koran is God’s word, verbatim? Would Mohamed recognize as his own the text of today’s Korans?

 

[TheSufi]

So, what happened to the claim that the Koran is God’s word, verbatim? Would Mohamed recognize as his own the text of today’s Korans?

The Quran was revealed in the Arabic language. And yes Prophet Muhammad would recognize the Quran of today. The Quran was book was compiled by Zaid Ibn thabid, Prophet Muhammad’s personal scribe and translator. Zaid Ibn thabid memorized the whole Quran while Prophet Muhammad was alive, Zaid was also one of the few companions who heard the Quran directly from the Angel Gabriel while he would recite it to Prophet Muhammad every year during Ramadaan.

So yes, Prophet Muhammad would recognize the Quran of today, as it is no different, it has been preserved, it’s exact pronunciation has been preserved.

 

[Reuben_J]

The Quran according to Zaid Ibn Thabid.

 

[Ontheway]

The Quran was book was compiled by Zaid Ibn thabid, Prophet Muhammad’s personal scribe and translator. Zaid Ibn thabid memorized the whole Quran while Prophet Muhammad was alive, Zaid was also one of the few companions who heard the Quran directly from the Angel Gabriel while he would recite it to Prophet Muhammad every year during Ramadaan.

So yes, Prophet Muhammad would recognize the Quran of today, as it is no different, it has been preserved, it’s exact pronunciation has been preserved.

If Zaid heard the Koran directly from the angel, why didn’t he just write it down as he heard it. Is he alse a prophet, since he heard it directly? Isn’t the original recitation more faithful and exact than a repetion?

The exact pronounciation could not have been preserved because the Arabic script of the time gave no indication of how the words need to be pronounced.

 

[Chemosh]

If Zaid heard the Koran directly from the angel, why didn’t he just write it down as he heard it. Is he alse a prophet, since he heard it directly? Isn’t the original recitation more faithful and exact than a repetion?

The exact pronounciation could not have been preserved because the Arabic script of the time gave no indication of how the words need to be pronounced.

The Koran is taken as an article of faith for Muslims. It is the word of God, because people choose to believe it’s the word of God.

If you want to criticize it for serious logical inconsistency, perhaps look for these sort of criticisms with your own book first. Question why some books were not added to the bible and some were, how accurate the words of Jesus could possibly be if the scriptures were written down decades after his death, how the authors of the apostles cannot possibly be the apostles themselves and appear to borrow from 2 older texts rather than 4 - and what it means for these words to have obviously passed between multiple people and then sold under the names of different authors.

Or, more succinctly put, “How can you say to your brother, ‘Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye?”

 

[dronald]

The Koran is taken as an article of faith for Muslims. It is the word of God, because people choose to believe it’s the word of God.

If you want to criticize it for serious logical inconsistency, perhaps look for these sort of criticisms with your own book first. Question why some books were not added to the bible and some were, how accurate the words of Jesus could possibly be if the scriptures were written down decades after his death, how the authors of the apostles cannot possibly be the apostles themselves and appear to borrow from 2 older texts rather than 4 - and what it means for these words to have obviously passed between multiple people and then sold under the names of different authors.

Or, more succinctly put, “How can you say to your brother, ‘Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye?”

These are fine questions, but why would we ask them in a thread about the Qur’an?

 

[Chemosh]

These are fine questions, but why would we ask them in a thread about the Qur’an?

They were part and parcel to my answer to those questions - essentially I was asking why you weren’t aware of the answer: belief in the Koran is illogical, but a matter of faith, as with any religion.

 

[Reuben_J]

The Koran is taken as an article of faith for Muslims. It is the word of God, because people choose to believe it’s the word of God.

If you want to criticize it for serious logical inconsistency, perhaps look for these sort of criticisms with your own book first. Question why some books were not added to the bible and some were, how accurate the words of Jesus could possibly be if the scriptures were written down decades after his death, how the authors of the apostles cannot possibly be the apostles themselves and appear to borrow from 2 older texts rather than 4 - and what it means for these words to have obviously passed between multiple people and then sold under the names of different authors.

Or, more succinctly put, “How can you say to your brother, ‘Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye?”

I agree with you on your first paragraph. Muslims choose to believe the Quran is the word of God.

As for criticism on logical inconsistency: You do realize that what can be said of the Quran can be said of the Bible and what can be said of the Bible can be said of the Quran.

I have no problem with how the Quran was compiled, written or came about. After all, if Muslims are happy with it and choose to believe it, it is their business. I only feel that they use double standard - that the standard they assign to the Bible for an authentic, unaltered scripture they fail to assign to the Quran as true representation as what revealed to Mohammad.

As you can see and admitted by Muslims here, the Quran is a Zaid Ibn Thabid’s version. There were other friends of Mohammad who also knew the Quran though it was to Zaid that they must comply with.

The Quran according to Zaid as the Gospel according to Mathew or the Gospel according to Mark, to Luke, to John.

 

[dronald]

They were part and parcel to my answer to those questions - essentially I was asking why you weren’t aware of the answer: belief in the Koran is illogical, but a matter of faith, as with any religion.

Essentially, Christians can find what we believe as flaws in the Qur’an and thus reject it. Vice versa for Muslims.

The point I am making is that if there are specific claims in the Bible that you disagree with, your best bet is to post them in the Apologetics section; as this thread is about whether or not the Qur’an is false.

 

[LibralAteoJesus]

It is my understanding,The Quran was revealed in 7 dialects of which there are 10 modes of recitation. And the Angel Jibriel recited these 7 dialects to Prophet Muhammad, in all 10 modes of recitation.

Ibn Abbas reported that Prophet Muhammad said, “Gabriel recited the Quran in one dialect, and I recited it back to him, but I request him to increase (the number of dialects) and he continued to increase it for me, until we stopped at seven dialects.”

The Quran was revealed in the Arabic language. God choose to reveal in the Arabic language as a way of honoring the Arabs. And God knows best.

The Quran says: “You are the best of the nations raised up for (the benefit of) men; …” - Qur’an 3:110

Just the exact way he is honoring them now? Why is it that the Islamic nations are the worst in freedom, scientific progress and human justice?

The Islamic golden existed at the time when governors, scientists and philosophers of that time were only identity Muslims but non-believers in mind, Europe was quite the contrary and lived in dark ages.

Is Islam a Christian heresy that gone too far and was made or at least was influenced by the priest Waraka ibn Nawfal who was an expert in Biblical studies and old testament and a dear teacher of Mohamed?

Who wrote the Quran when Mohamed was illiterate? How can you make sure and trust that it wasn’t corrupted?

Why the ayats descending on Mohamed when he was in Mecca tend to be loving and peaceful, but the ones descending on him when he was in Medina are bloody violent?

Could it be that at the time he was politically weak he needed to be tolerant to other religions but when he got powerful suddenly the new ayats were violent and intolerant, from the same god?

 

[LibralAteoJesus]

It is my understanding,The Quran was revealed in 7 dialects of which there are 10 modes of recitation. And the Angel Jibriel recited these 7 dialects to Prophet Muhammad, in all 10 modes of recitation.

Ibn Abbas reported that Prophet Muhammad said, “Gabriel recited the Quran in one dialect, and I recited it back to him, but I request him to increase (the number of dialects) and he continued to increase it for me, until we stopped at seven dialects.”

The Quran was revealed in the Arabic language. God choose to reveal in the Arabic language as a way of honoring the Arabs. And God knows best.

The Quran says: “You are the best of the nations raised up for (the benefit of) men; …” - Qur’an 3:110

Just the exact way he is honoring them now? Why is it that the Islamic nations are the worst in freedom, scientific progress and human justice?

The Islamic golden age existed at the time when governors, scientists and philosophers of that time were only identity Muslims but non-believers in mind, Europe was quite the contrary and lived in dark ages.

Is Islam a Christian heresy that gone too far and was made or at least was influenced by the priest Waraka ibn Nawfal who was an expert in Biblical studies and old testament and a dear teacher of Mohamed?

Who wrote the Quran when Mohamed was illiterate? How can you make sure and trust that it wasn’t corrupted?

Why the ayats descending on Mohamed when he was in Mecca tend to be loving and peaceful, but the ones descending on him when he was in Medina are bloody violent?

Could it be that at the time he was politically weak he needed to be tolerant to other religions but when he got powerful suddenly the new ayats turned violent and intolerant, from the same supposed powerful god?