Is the Rapture biblical?

[JPCalifornia]

BIBLIA SACRA VULGATA I Thessalonicenses 4:17 deinde nos qui vivimus qui relinquimur simul rapiemur cum illis in nubibus obviam Domino in aera et sic semper cum Domino erimus

Some say that rapiemur is the word that was translated to RAPTURE, but the idea of being caught up in the clouds together with Jesus and the dead in Christ is found in the Bible.

Is there any Biblical prove that the rapture would be the wrong interpretation of that passage?

 

[Fidelis]

Is there any Biblical prove that the rapture would be the wrong interpretation of that passage?

The word “rapiemur” is the correct Latin word used, since it means “caught up” as is in the original Greek harpazo.

So the word is right, but not the “rapture theology” built around it from 19th century non-denominational Protestant dispensationalists and popularized by Hal Lindsey and Tim Lahaye. That whole rapture/tribulation/millenium/ nonsense is completely unbiblical.

 

[Big_Ro]

Seems like you’re trying to pick a fight. There are many many threads on this forum that explain the Catholic point of view on this issue. I viewed your profile and you do not indicate whether or not you are a Catholic. What is it about Holy Week that brings this out in people. I’m certainly not going around to protestant or non-denominational sights challenging their beliefs. Anyway, maybe when I get home I’ll take the time to try and enlighten you. Or maybe I’ll do something prodcutive.

 

[Catholic1954]

There is no such thing as the rapture; it is not in the Bible. St. Paul was refering to the end of time, our final judgement, which will include everyone.

 

[Big_Ro]

I think you’re outgunned JP. A couple of hundred years of biblical thought at best versus 2000 years.

 

[Edwardjohn]

BIBLIA SACRA VULGATA I Thessalonicenses 4:17 deinde nos qui vivimus qui relinquimur simul rapiemur cum illis in nubibus obviam Domino in aera et sic semper cum Domino erimus

Some say that rapiemur is the word that was translated to RAPTURE, but the idea of being caught up in the clouds together with Jesus and the dead in Christ is found in the Bible.

Is there any Biblical prove that the rapture would be the wrong interpretation of that passage?

The popular rapture interpretation of the Scriptures is false. I think it would be grossly unfair to our brothers and sisters in Christ in those parts of the world where the mention of the name of Jesus can get you imprisoned or executed. The interpretation also says that believers will be raptured out before the Great Tribulation and they, our brothers and sisters just mentioned, probably think that they are in the Great Tribulation and should have been raptured. The rapture interpretation goes hand-in-hand with the prosperity gospel. In my opinion, it is escapism. A very good and biblically sound book that also takes into consideration the writings of the Church Fathers and Sacred Tradition is “The Rapture Trap” written by Paul Thigpen.

 

[JPCalifornia]

I think you’re outgunned JP. A couple of hundred years of biblical thought at best versus 2000 years.

I don’t have a gun and I am not looking for a fight as some may think. I understand the rapture view and I have read the scriptures that are used to defend it. I would like to see how are those scriptures understood differently. I respect bought points of view for ether way there is only one Lord for us all. Paul and Peter did not see eye to eye regarding eating the gentiles food but they were still brothers.

 

[Fidelis]

Seems like you’re trying to pick a fight.

Not trying to pick a fight and I’m sorry if you took it that way. Did I say anything that was non-factual? The “rapture doctrine” DID originate in the 19th century with Protestant dispensationalists and biblically speaking it IS nonsense. I’m just stating the facts surrounding the phrase in question as it is commonly misused. What’s wrong with that?

There are many many threads on this forum that explain the Catholic point of view on this issue. I viewed your profile and you do not indicate whether or not you are a Catholic.

I am very much so! Says right there up in the corner of all my posts.

What is it about Holy Week that brings this out in people.

Brings *what *out-- people making it clear what the Scriptures and the Church teaches so there will be no misunderstanding on this point? I do that year round.

I’m certainly not going around to protestant or non-denominational sights challenging their beliefs.

Neither do I. We are kindred spirits in this.

Anyway, maybe when I get home I’ll take the time to try and enlighten you. Or maybe I’ll do something prodcutive.

Please don’t expend your precious time on 'lil old me— I doubt you could show me anything I haven’t already seen on this topic. I have extensively studied this issue from all sides for about 20 years. You would probably be quite impressed with my library on this subject. Thanks anyway, though – and God bless you!

 

[NHInsider]

I don’t have a gun and I am not looking for a fight as some may think. I understand the rapture view and I have read the scriptures that are used to defend it. I would like to see how are those scriptures understood differently. I respect bought points of view for ether way there is only one Lord for us all. Paul and Peter did not see eye to eye regarding eating the gentiles food but they were still brothers.

Hi JP-

I’m not sure it’s been clear in the previous posts - Catholics do not dispute that the Thessalonians passage says believers living at the time of Jesus’ return will be caught up to greet Him. What we do not believe which is an essential part of the “rapture” teaching that is common today is that this even will precede the Day of Judgment by some extended period of time - that Jesus will snatch up true believers so they don’t have to experience the trials of the end times, and then come back later to sit in Judgment (possibly twice, once before and then again after the “millenium”).

 

[Big_Ro]

I don’t have a gun and I am not looking for a fight as some may think. I understand the rapture view and I have read the scriptures that are used to defend it. I would like to see how are those scriptures understood differently. I respect bought points of view for ether way there is only one Lord for us all. Paul and Peter did not see eye to eye regarding eating the gentiles food but they were still brothers.

Well, I certainly agree that we are brothers in Christ. It’s just that I have followed many threads on this particular subject in my own journey to understand Revelations better. Specifically, I have endeavored to understand the catholic teachings on this subject. I used to buy in to the misinterpretation that pervades the mian stream media and many fundementalist christian sects. While I welcome disagrement on the subject, I worry that the pre-millenial misinterpretation endangers peoples souls. Still, when I have followed the threads on this subject, the non-Catholic “trolls” sound just like you. I am a firm believer that if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it’s probably a duck. You are welcome I guess to your own interpretation of scripture, but I prefer the truth.

 

[ejb21]

If my understanding of the Protestant interpretation is correct then they, Protestants, are taking the Words of Jesus in Matt 24:40, “then two men will be in the field; one is taken and one is left”, and applying them to Paul writing to the Thessalonians.

Those present when Jesus spoke these words would never have been able to come to this conclusion because Thessalonians had not been written yet.

Dr. Scot Hahn, when discussing this, asks an interesting question : what is meant by taken and left. During The Flood were Noah and his family taken or left. In reality, they were the only ones left.

 

[crazzeto]

BIBLIA SACRA VULGATA I Thessalonicenses 4:17 deinde nos qui vivimus qui relinquimur simul rapiemur cum illis in nubibus obviam Domino in aera et sic semper cum Domino erimus

Some say that rapiemur is the word that was translated to RAPTURE, but the idea of being caught up in the clouds together with Jesus and the dead in Christ is found in the Bible.

Is there any Biblical prove that the rapture would be the wrong interpretation of that passage?

There is good reason to believe we will be caught up, as you say… But that is a far cry from accepting the pre-millenial position. First and formost, this getting caught up can not happen on any day, other than the last day.

Does this answer your question?

 

[Ignatius]

Is there any Biblical prove that the rapture would be the wrong interpretation of that passage?

You have it backwards. There is no Biblical evidence that the Rapture as understood by Dispensationalists is correct. The only Biblical eschatology scenario is the Parousia as taught by The Catholic Church since the first century down to our own time.

 

[JPCalifornia]

You have it backwards. There is no Biblical evidence that the Rapture as understood by Dispensationalists is correct. The only Biblical eschatology scenario is the Parousia as taught by The Catholic Church since the first century down to our own time.

Please explain the only Biblical eschatology taught by The Catholic Church. I would like to understand the true meening of the passages that are used by some Chritians to explain the rapture and also know the passages that clearly show that the rapture is not what God has intended for humanity. Thanks for your help.

 

[crazzeto]

Please explain the only Biblical eschatology taught by The Catholic Church. I would like to understand the true meening of the passages that are used by some Chritians to explain the rapture and also know the passages that clearly show that the rapture is not what God has intended for humanity. Thanks for your help.

This of it this way, there is a good case to say that we will indeed be caught up, but not in the way typically pulmigated by fundamentalists. The rapture is not a tool used by God to create a tribulation for the unbelievers, this theology is really more theological escapism than it is biblical. It’s an attempt to teach a version of Christianity, were good Christians don’t have to suffer.

This flys in the face of what Christ taught:

Mat 10:38 And he that taketh not up his cross, and followeth me, is not worthy of me.

Mat 16:24 Then Jesus said to his disciples: If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Mar 13:13 And you shall be hated by all men for my name’s sake. But he that shall endure unto the end, he shall be saved.

Rev 2:7 He that hath an ear let him hear what the Spirit saith to the churches: To him that overcometh I will give to eat of the tree of life which is in the paradise of my God.

It is when the Church (us) die on the Cross with Christ, that we achieve final glory.

I realize I’m not specifically addressing “the rapture” as you state it, rather I’m displaying a paradigm error with modern fundamentalism which has led to a misunderstanding of “getting caught up”.

 

[Big_Ro]

You have it backwards. There is no Biblical evidence that the Rapture as understood by Dispensationalists is correct. The only Biblical eschatology scenario is the Parousia as taught by The Catholic Church since the first century down to our own time.

Amen brother

 

[Cristian_B]

So, the Rapture is biblical, but the secret Rapture and the 7 year tribulation time after the Rapture is not? (from a Catholic perspective)

 

[JPCalifornia]

This of it this way, there is a good case to say that we will indeed be caught up, but not in the way typically pulmigated by fundamentalists. The rapture is not a tool used by God to create a tribulation for the unbelievers, this theology is really more theological escapism than it is biblical. It’s an attempt to teach a version of Christianity, were good Christians don’t have to suffer.

This flys in the face of what Christ taught:

Christ spoke about suffering but is this suffering because the evil of a fallen world or because the wrath of God. What is the true eschatology scenario shown in the Bible?

It is when the Church (us) die on the Cross with Christ, that we achieve final glory.

I realize I’m not specifically addressing “the rapture” as you state it, rather I’m displaying a paradigm error with modern fundamentalism which has led to a misunderstanding of “getting caught up”.

 

[Fidelis]

Please explain the only Biblical eschatology taught by The Catholic Church. I would like to understand the true meening of the passages that are used by some Chritians to explain the rapture and also know the passages that clearly show that the rapture is not what God has intended for humanity. Thanks for your help.

Perhaps this will help.

When each of us dies, our souls are immediately judged by God. This is called the Particular Judgment. At this point we begin our eternal destiny. If we are going to hell, our souls go directly there. If we are deemed worthy of heaven, our souls will go directly to heaven, or if we are going to heaven but are in need of purification, we may go to Purgatory first for a while (everyone in Purgatory will eventually go to heaven). Whatever our fate, our souls will stay there (heaven or hell) until the end of time, at which time the Second Coming will occur.

At the Second Coming at the end of time, those Christians still alive and who are in a state of sanctifying grace * will be taken to heaven (what is being described in 1 Thessalonians 4:16–17 and what some Protestants think of as of the rapture). Then will occur the General Judgment. At that time the souls of the living and the dead will be reunited with their bodies and brought together in God’s presence and judged before all. Those who have already been judged in the Particular Judgment will be brought from wherever their souls were -heaven, hell or Purgatory-- and have their judgment confirmed before all, so that both the justice and mercy of God will be manifest to all. No one will then have any doubt about the fairness of God’s judgment on those they thought would be in heaven but are not, or those they thought would not be in heaven but are.

After this, time and Purgatory will be no more and all will enter with their souls and bodies into their eternal destiny, either hell or heaven.

This is an extremely bare-bones sketch, so if you want to get the details, see the five articles I linked below:

rosary-center.org/ll57n1.htm
rosary-center.org/ll57n2.htm
rosary-center.org/ll57n3.htm
rosary-center.org/ll57n4.htm
rosary-center.org/ll49n6.htm

In addition, you have to learn to recognize erroneous teachings about the End Times popularized by fundamentalist dispensationalists. In other words, toss out the “Left Behind” and “Late, Great Planet Earth” baloney. Here are some resources to help you develop some discernment in these areas:

catholic.com/library/rapture.asp
catholic.com/thisrock/2000/0011fea2.asp
catholic.com/library/false_profit.asp
catholic.com/thisrock/2002/0211fea3.asp
catholic.com/thisrock/2000/0001fea1.asp
catholic.com/thisrock/1995/9510ntg.asp
catholic.com/thisrock/2002/0209fea5.asp
catholic.com/thisrock/1998/9812chap.asp
catholic.com/thisrock/2003/0304bt.asp
catholic.com/thisrock/1997/9705chap.asp
catholic.com/thisrock/1994/9409fea4.asp*

 

[Big_Ro]

You’re quaking JP! This person is a troll. I think ya;ll are placing pearls before swine. I suggest you ignore him and he’ll go away.