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mathematician
Guest
I thought Catholics were supposed to be better acquainted with the Bible nowadays, but it seems St Paul didn’t know what he was talking about.
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Mickey
Guest
According to the text of First Corinthians, man, in whom concupiscence prevails over the spiritual, that is, the “animal body” (1 Cor 15:44), is condemned to death. He should rise, however, as a spiritual body, man in whom the Spirit will achieve a just supremacy over the body, spirituality over sensuality. It is easy to understand that Paul is here thinking of sensuality as the sum total of the factors limiting human spirituality, that is, as a force that “ties down” the spirit (not necessarily in the Platonic sense) by restricting its own faculty of knowing (seeing) the truth and also the faculty to will freely and to love in truth. However, here it cannot be a question of that fundamental function of the senses which serves to liberate spirituality, that is to say, of the simple faculty of knowing and willing proper to the psychosomatic *compositum *of the human subject.
Just as one speaks of the resurrection of the body, that is, of man in his true corporeal nature, consequently the spiritual body should mean precisely *the perfect sensitivity of the senses, their perfect harmonization with the activity of the human spirit *in truth and liberty. The animal body, which is the earthly antithesis of the spiritual body, indicates sensuality as a force prejudicial to man, precisely because while living—“in the knowledge of good and evil”—he is often attracted and impelled toward evil.
Pope John Paul II
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SyCarl
Guest
I believe what Jesus tells us in the entire Bread of Life discourse. We cannot separate what He says earlier from the last part.
It is true that in John 6 Jesus says:
Jesus says much more in the discourse than just these 4 verses and we must accept as true what He tells us there as well in the above verses.
Jesus tells us:
Jesus goes on to say:
Jesus is really present spiritually and is received by taking part in faith.
It is true that in John 6 Jesus says:
Jesus indeed tells us that if whoever eats His flesh and drinks His blood has eternal life. He also says that we have no life in ourselves unless we do so. What does He mean by eating and drinking?
Jesus says much more in the discourse than just these 4 verses and we must accept as true what He tells us there as well in the above verses.
Jesus tells us:
Jesus tells us that if we come to Him we will never hunger and if we believe in Him we will never thirst. I think that He is clearly speaking about spiritual hunger and thirst here, since we still become physically hungry and thirsty. What would normally relieve hunger and thirst? Eating and drinking. But Jesus doesn’t say that: He says coming to Him we will never hunger and believing in Him we will never thirst. He equates coming and believing to eating and drinking.
Jesus goes on to say:
and:
Jesus is promising that if we believe in Him we will have eternal life. He says nothing about eating and drinking here. So Jesus has made several unconditional statements.
- That is we believe in Him we will have eternal life.
- That if we eat His flesh and drink His blood we will have eternal life.
- Unless we eat His flesh and drink His blood we will not have eternal life.
Jesus is really present spiritually and is received by taking part in faith.
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Mickey
Guest
That is because it is both!!! We need to believe **and **partake.
Your strange conclusions are not supported by 2000 years of Apostolic interpretation.
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mathematician
Guest
To say that really present cannot mean spiritually present is to betray a belief that only the material is real. Interesting.
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Mickey
Guest
It means both.
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JimG
Guest
Jesus is spiritually present to us in a number of ways: through the indwelling of grace, by his spiritual presence when two or more are gathered in his name, in the proclamation of scripture. These are ways of spiritual presence, (spiritual here meaning not material or physical.) Yet Jesus also promised us his body and blood as our food, and then delivered upon that promise in the Eucharist at the Last Supper.
It is something of a scandal for Jesus to make his one sacrifice of himself present in the Eucharist, both spiritually and corporeally. Yet it is also something of a scandal for the Eternal Word, the Second Person of the Trinity, to take upon himself a human body and soul. God being born of a woman, God living as a man, God suffering and dying, is the scandal of the Incarnation. Which is more difficult, for the Second Person of the Trinity to take on a human body, or for him to make himself present under the appearances of bread and wine?
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SyCarl
Guest
Jesus tells us that if we believe in Him we have eternal life. He puts no restrictions on this. It is flat out statement that belief equals eternal life.
However if He is speaking literally in verse 53 He is contradicting this statement because He tells us that we can only have eternal life if we eat and drink. I believe everything He says so I cannot take verse 53 as literal.
My interpretation is perfectly in line with Augustine’s Homilies on John. And to forestall protests, I am speaking only of his interpretation of John 6, not what his view on the Real Presence might be.
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NDfan
Guest
The spiritual is absolutely separate from the physical. The physical existence of this world is not the same as the next. Paul tells us we cannot inherit the Kingdom of GOD as flesh and blood. You keep wanting to equate a physical body of this life with a spiritual body in the after life.
I’m not saying Jesus wasn’t flesh and bone. He certainly was in this life. The Bible doesn’t teach us that a spiritual body in the after life is flesh and blood.
I’ll have to find where I read it for you. But this has been my point all along. I’ve seen this argued many times on this forum that this is exactly what is happening.
You are getting confused at what glorified means in this context. Jesus being glorified refers to HIS conquering death and being resurrected plain and simple. It doesn’t refer to a new body type. The resurrected body is a spiritual body and is not the same as the one that hung on the cross.
How can it be heart tissue and not also be nerves and bone?? You’re contradicting yourself here compared to your response from above.
I’ve done this so many times but OK.
I’m not implying that this is where Jesus refers to the Eucharist symbolically. In verse 63 he is clarifying that the flesh means nothing plain and simple. So why eat it? We don’t. We don’t eat the Eucharist to receive eternal life. We believe in Jesus to have eternal life. Jesus is using this entire teaching to tell the Jews they have to believe (feed on HIM) to have eternal life. Not eat HIS flesh and blood. Jesus says if we don’t eat HIM (i.e. believe in HIM) we can’t be raised up on the last day. Again we don’t eat the Eucharist to be raised up. We believe to be raised up. We partake in the supper as an act of obedience to our faith. Notice Peter’s response states that they BELIEVE.
Roman Catholics always use the analogy of the water being turned to wine and this is invalid. Remember the water really turned into wine. It looked like it and smelled like it. It had all the properties of wine. Jesus didn’t say you are drinking water but really it is wine.
Show me where scripture states that only a priest can do this. As far as the scripture you need to stop trying to proof-text the Bible. It doesn’t work.
The word used in the Greek for remembrance is Amnesis. This word means memorial. To literally stop what you are doing and meditate on the event or situation you are recalling. Jesus wants us to see the bread and wine as HIS body and blood, which I do, then do it in amnesis (remembrance/memorial) of HIM.
Our daily bread does not refer to Jesus. It refers literally to the food we eat. And again you are mis-using the word glorified to describe Jesus body. The body he presented to Thomas and the others was only to demonstrate that he was the risen man that was crucified. Don’t think that Jesus is still sitting in Heaven with those wounds on HIS body. If he wanted to show them to us he could. But that’s not how HE exists.
Yes GOD can do anything.
No again we don’t eat and drink his flesh and blood for eternal life. We believe in HIM for eternal life. We obey HIS request to partake in the supper to remember HIS sacrifice on the cross. Not to get eternal life.
The Apostles themselves as they wrote in the Didache that it was spiritual. I think many of the early church fathers are taken out of context when you quote just a snippet of their writings. You are badly mis-interpreting Ignatius as well. Do you realize what he is saying about not confessing that the Eucharist is the flesh of Christ? He’s accusing people of not believing and being divided. Notice he states there is one cup to show our unity of HIS blood. Meaning we are united in HIS sacrifice.
Ahh no they’re not. Again you’re badly misinterpreting what these verses are saying.
Justin I don’t expect you to explain it again as your explanation is nothing more than the official Roman Catholic position on these issues. Maybe you should read carefully what I wrote because I’m not going to explain it again.
PEACE
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NDfan
Guest
Ok I’m good to this point
Not contradictory. What type of body do we have in Heaven? Let’s start there so we can get on the same page.
But not flesh and blood like we have now.
If a spiritual body still has material as you say, then Body, blood, soul, and divinity implies that there is a true physical presence that you are chewing on. If you are actually chewing the bread and drinking the wine but Jesus is underneath as material then you would taste it and see it. Given that you don’t it’s spiritual. I think the problem is your description gets confused with an earthly fleshy bloody existence. Given that Leviticus 17 prohibits us from eating the blood of any living thing, we certainly cannot literally be eating Jesus blood. This is contradictory. This is what the Jews had a problem with. They could not recognize that Jesus was not referring to eating HIM as in, “come up here and take a bite out of my flesh”. This is what they were grumbling about. He wanted them to get passed that and believe in HIM. That’s the whole point of John 6.
It’s the same as when I say I’m feeding on the word of GOD. I don’t eat the Bible to feed on GOD’s word. I read it. Likewise I don’t eat Jesus flesh and blood to get eternal life and be raised up on the last day. I believe in HIM. That’s called Faith.
PEACE
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NDfan
Guest
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Again the use of the word logos is philosophical.
Exactly. To prove that He was the risen Christ.
No maybe it’s just above your understanding. When I look at the bread I see Jesus. When I look at the wine I see Jesus blood. I remember HIS sacrifice. But I don’t think I am physically putting HIM in my mouth and chewing on HIS bones and drinking HIS blood.:dts:
No I think you need to re-read it. The physical body is not the flesh and blood that we have now. That flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of GOD.Paul indicates that the resurrection body will be new and “spiritual” (but still a physical body).
I think you need to read 1 Cor 15 again.
J
JimG
Guest
In heaven we have a glorified body, the same kind of body that Christ has. A glorified body is a physical body, composed of matter, but not subject to the limitations that we currently have. Are you saying that God eliminates all matter, including our bodies, when we get to heaven? Our bodies were important enough that God the Son took one for himself.
A true physical presence yes, but not a presence that we can touch or influence. All we can influence are the appearances of the bread and wine.
Catholics also believe that Jesus’ body is not multiplied in the Eucharist. Each person receiving communion receives the one and only Jesus, in his entirety. Since we can touch only the appearances of the bread and wine, Jesus is not chewed or cannibalized in any way; He always remains whole and entire.
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justinthemartyr
Guest
Jesus has a glorified Body, he is not pure spirit. we partake of that actual glorified body.
if i am badly misinterpreting these verses, then every single church did the same for the first 1500 years, and that is impossible.
did you read john 6? jesus specifically said that whoever eats His flesh and drinks His blood has eyernal life and he will raise them on the last day, he who does not…has no life within him.
simple.
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SyCarl
Guest
So if an atheist goes to a Catholic Church and receives the Eucharist does he have eternal life? After all, he has eaten the body and blood and everyone who…
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Usagi
Guest
Ah, but as Paul told the Corinthians, to eat and drink unworthily has nearly the opposite effect, in their case even causing physical sickness and death for some.
The atheist would truly consume the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Christ (this is why Catholics are horrified when we see things like consecrated Hosts being offered for sale on eBay), but his spiritual disposition would determine whether he receives the grace of the sacrament or commits a grave sacrilege.
Usagi
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justinthemartyr
Guest
1323 "At the Last Supper, on the night he was betrayed, our Savior instituted the Eucharistic sacrifice of his Body and Blood. This he did in order to perpetuate the sacrifice of the cross throughout the ages until he should come again, and so to entrust to his beloved Spouse, the Church, a memorial of his death and resurrection: a sacrament of love, a sign of unity, a bond of charity, a Paschal banquet ‘in which Christ is consumed, the mind is filled with grace, and a pledge of future glory is given to us.’"135
1333 At the heart of the Eucharistic celebration are the bread and wine that, by the words of Christ and the invocation of the Holy Spirit, become Christ’s Body and Blood. Faithful to the Lord’s command the Church continues to do, in his memory and until his glorious return, what he did on the eve of his Passion: “He took bread. . . .” “He took the cup filled with wine. . . .” The signs of bread and wine become, in a way surpassing understanding, the Body and Blood of Christ; they continue also to signify the goodness of creation. Thus in the Offertory we give thanks to the Creator for bread and wine,154 fruit of the “work of human hands,” but above all as “fruit of the earth” and “of the vine” - gifts of the Creator. The Church sees in the gesture of the king-priest Melchizedek, who “brought out bread and wine,” a prefiguring of her own offering.155
1334 In the Old Covenant bread and wine were offered in sacrifice among the first fruits of the earth as a sign of grateful acknowledgment to the Creator. But they also received a new significance in the context of the Exodus: the unleavened bread that Israel eats every year at Passover commemorates the haste of the departure that liberated them from Egypt; the remembrance of the manna in the desert will always recall to Israel that it lives by the bread of the Word of God;156 their daily bread is the fruit of the promised land, the pledge of God’s faithfulness to his promises. The "cup of blessing"157 at the end of the Jewish Passover meal adds to the festive joy of wine an eschatological dimension: the messianic expectation of the rebuilding of Jerusalem. When Jesus instituted the Eucharist, he gave a new and definitive meaning to the blessing of the bread and the cup.
1335 The miracles of the multiplication of the loaves, when the Lord says the blessing, breaks and distributes the loaves through his disciples to feed the multitude, prefigure the superabundance of this unique bread of his Eucharist.158 The sign of water turned into wine at Cana already announces the Hour of Jesus’ glorification. It makes manifest the fulfillment of the wedding feast in the Father’s kingdom, where the faithful will drink the new wine that has become the Blood of Christ.159
1336 The first announcement of the Eucharist divided the disciples, just as the announcement of the Passion scandalized them: "This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?"160 The Eucharist and the Cross are stumbling blocks. It is the same mystery and it never ceases to be an occasion of division. “Will you also go away?”:161 the Lord’s question echoes through the ages, as a loving invitation to discover that only he has "the words of eternal life"162 and that to receive in faith the gift of his Eucharist is to receive the Lord himself.
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1333 At the heart of the Eucharistic celebration are the bread and wine that, by the words of Christ and the invocation of the Holy Spirit, become Christ’s Body and Blood. Faithful to the Lord’s command the Church continues to do, in his memory and until his glorious return, what he did on the eve of his Passion: “He took bread. . . .” “He took the cup filled with wine. . . .” The signs of bread and wine become, in a way surpassing understanding, the Body and Blood of Christ; they continue also to signify the goodness of creation. Thus in the Offertory we give thanks to the Creator for bread and wine,154 fruit of the “work of human hands,” but above all as “fruit of the earth” and “of the vine” - gifts of the Creator. The Church sees in the gesture of the king-priest Melchizedek, who “brought out bread and wine,” a prefiguring of her own offering.155
1334 In the Old Covenant bread and wine were offered in sacrifice among the first fruits of the earth as a sign of grateful acknowledgment to the Creator. But they also received a new significance in the context of the Exodus: the unleavened bread that Israel eats every year at Passover commemorates the haste of the departure that liberated them from Egypt; the remembrance of the manna in the desert will always recall to Israel that it lives by the bread of the Word of God;156 their daily bread is the fruit of the promised land, the pledge of God’s faithfulness to his promises. The "cup of blessing"157 at the end of the Jewish Passover meal adds to the festive joy of wine an eschatological dimension: the messianic expectation of the rebuilding of Jerusalem. When Jesus instituted the Eucharist, he gave a new and definitive meaning to the blessing of the bread and the cup.
1335 The miracles of the multiplication of the loaves, when the Lord says the blessing, breaks and distributes the loaves through his disciples to feed the multitude, prefigure the superabundance of this unique bread of his Eucharist.158 The sign of water turned into wine at Cana already announces the Hour of Jesus’ glorification. It makes manifest the fulfillment of the wedding feast in the Father’s kingdom, where the faithful will drink the new wine that has become the Blood of Christ.159
1336 The first announcement of the Eucharist divided the disciples, just as the announcement of the Passion scandalized them: "This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?"160 The Eucharist and the Cross are stumbling blocks. It is the same mystery and it never ceases to be an occasion of division. “Will you also go away?”:161 the Lord’s question echoes through the ages, as a loving invitation to discover that only he has "the words of eternal life"162 and that to receive in faith the gift of his Eucharist is to receive the Lord himself.
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justinthemartyr
Guest
The institution of the Eucharist
1337 The Lord, having loved those who were his own, loved them to the end. Knowing that the hour had come to leave this world and return to the Father, in the course of a meal he washed their feet and gave them the commandment of love.163 In order to leave them a pledge of this love, in order never to depart from his own and to make them sharers in his Passover, he instituted the Eucharist as the memorial of his death and Resurrection, and commanded his apostles to celebrate it until his return; "thereby he constituted them priests of the New Testament."164
1338 The three synoptic Gospels and St. Paul have handed on to us the account of the institution of the Eucharist; St. John, for his part, reports the words of Jesus in the synagogue of Capernaum that prepare for the institution of the Eucharist: Christ calls himself the bread of life, come down from heaven.165
1339 Jesus chose the time of Passover to fulfill what he had announced at Capernaum: giving his disciples his Body and his Blood:
Then came the day of Unleavened Bread, on which the passover lamb had to be sacrificed. So Jesus sent Peter and John, saying, “Go and prepare the passover meal for us, that we may eat it. . . .” They went . . . and prepared the passover. And when the hour came, he sat at table, and the apostles with him. And he said to them, “I have earnestly desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer; for I tell you I shall not eat it again until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God.”. . . . And he took bread, and when he had given thanks he broke it and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” And likewise the cup after supper, saying, "This cup which is poured out for you is the New Covenant in my blood."166
1340 By celebrating the Last Supper with his apostles in the course of the Passover meal, Jesus gave the Jewish Passover its definitive meaning. Jesus’ passing over to his father by his death and Resurrection, the new Passover, is anticipated in the Supper and celebrated in the Eucharist, which fulfills the Jewish Passover and anticipates the final Passover of the Church in the glory of the kingdom.
“Do this in memory of me”
1341 The command of Jesus to repeat his actions and words “until he comes” does not only ask us to remember Jesus and what he did. It is directed at the liturgical celebration, by the apostles and their successors, of the memorial of Christ, of his life, of his death, of his Resurrection, and of his intercession in the presence of the Father.167
1342 From the beginning the Church has been faithful to the Lord’s command. Of the Church of Jerusalem it is written:
They devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers. . . . Day by day, attending the temple together and breaking bread in their homes, they partook of food with glad and generous hearts.168
1343 It was above all on “the first day of the week,” Sunday, the day of Jesus’ resurrection, that the Christians met "to break bread."169 From that time on down to our own day the celebration of the Eucharist has been continued so that today we encounter it everywhere in the Church with the same fundamental structure. It remains the center of the Church’s life.
1344 Thus from celebration to celebration, as they proclaim the Paschal mystery of Jesus “until he comes,” the pilgrim People of God advances, "following the narrow way of the cross,"170 toward the heavenly banquet, when all the elect will be seated at the table of the kingdom.
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1337 The Lord, having loved those who were his own, loved them to the end. Knowing that the hour had come to leave this world and return to the Father, in the course of a meal he washed their feet and gave them the commandment of love.163 In order to leave them a pledge of this love, in order never to depart from his own and to make them sharers in his Passover, he instituted the Eucharist as the memorial of his death and Resurrection, and commanded his apostles to celebrate it until his return; "thereby he constituted them priests of the New Testament."164
1338 The three synoptic Gospels and St. Paul have handed on to us the account of the institution of the Eucharist; St. John, for his part, reports the words of Jesus in the synagogue of Capernaum that prepare for the institution of the Eucharist: Christ calls himself the bread of life, come down from heaven.165
1339 Jesus chose the time of Passover to fulfill what he had announced at Capernaum: giving his disciples his Body and his Blood:
Then came the day of Unleavened Bread, on which the passover lamb had to be sacrificed. So Jesus sent Peter and John, saying, “Go and prepare the passover meal for us, that we may eat it. . . .” They went . . . and prepared the passover. And when the hour came, he sat at table, and the apostles with him. And he said to them, “I have earnestly desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer; for I tell you I shall not eat it again until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God.”. . . . And he took bread, and when he had given thanks he broke it and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” And likewise the cup after supper, saying, "This cup which is poured out for you is the New Covenant in my blood."166
1340 By celebrating the Last Supper with his apostles in the course of the Passover meal, Jesus gave the Jewish Passover its definitive meaning. Jesus’ passing over to his father by his death and Resurrection, the new Passover, is anticipated in the Supper and celebrated in the Eucharist, which fulfills the Jewish Passover and anticipates the final Passover of the Church in the glory of the kingdom.
“Do this in memory of me”
1341 The command of Jesus to repeat his actions and words “until he comes” does not only ask us to remember Jesus and what he did. It is directed at the liturgical celebration, by the apostles and their successors, of the memorial of Christ, of his life, of his death, of his Resurrection, and of his intercession in the presence of the Father.167
1342 From the beginning the Church has been faithful to the Lord’s command. Of the Church of Jerusalem it is written:
They devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers. . . . Day by day, attending the temple together and breaking bread in their homes, they partook of food with glad and generous hearts.168
1343 It was above all on “the first day of the week,” Sunday, the day of Jesus’ resurrection, that the Christians met "to break bread."169 From that time on down to our own day the celebration of the Eucharist has been continued so that today we encounter it everywhere in the Church with the same fundamental structure. It remains the center of the Church’s life.
1344 Thus from celebration to celebration, as they proclaim the Paschal mystery of Jesus “until he comes,” the pilgrim People of God advances, "following the narrow way of the cross,"170 toward the heavenly banquet, when all the elect will be seated at the table of the kingdom.
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J
justinthemartyr
Guest
1345 As early as the second century we have the witness of St. Justin Martyr for the basic lines of the order of the Eucharistic celebration. They have stayed the same until our own day for all the great liturgical families. St. Justin wrote to the pagan emperor Antoninus Pius (138-161) around the year 155, explaining what Christians did:
On the day we call the day of the sun, all who dwell in the city or country gather in the same place.
The memoirs of the apostles and the writings of the prophets are read, as much as time permits.
When the reader has finished, he who presides over those gathered admonishes and challenges them to imitate these beautiful things.
Then we all rise together and offer prayers* for ourselves . . .and for all others, wherever they may be, so that we may be found righteous by our life and actions, and faithful to the commandments, so as to obtain eternal salvation.
When the prayers are concluded we exchange the kiss.
Then someone brings bread and a cup of water and wine mixed together to him who presides over the brethren.
He takes them and offers praise and glory to the Father of the universe, through the name of the Son and of the Holy Spirit and for a considerable time he gives thanks (in Greek: eucharistian) that we have been judged worthy of these gifts.
When he has concluded the prayers and thanksgivings, all present give voice to an acclamation by saying: ‘Amen.’
When he who presides has given thanks and the people have responded, those whom we call deacons give to those present the “eucharisted” bread, wine and water and take them to those who are absent.171
1346 The liturgy of the Eucharist unfolds according to a fundamental structure which has been preserved throughout the centuries down to our own day. It displays two great parts that form a fundamental unity:
1347 Is this not the same movement as the Paschal meal of the risen Jesus with his disciples? Walking with them he explained the Scriptures to them; sitting with them at table "he took bread, blessed and broke it, and gave it to them."174
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On the day we call the day of the sun, all who dwell in the city or country gather in the same place.
The memoirs of the apostles and the writings of the prophets are read, as much as time permits.
When the reader has finished, he who presides over those gathered admonishes and challenges them to imitate these beautiful things.
Then we all rise together and offer prayers* for ourselves . . .and for all others, wherever they may be, so that we may be found righteous by our life and actions, and faithful to the commandments, so as to obtain eternal salvation.
When the prayers are concluded we exchange the kiss.
Then someone brings bread and a cup of water and wine mixed together to him who presides over the brethren.
He takes them and offers praise and glory to the Father of the universe, through the name of the Son and of the Holy Spirit and for a considerable time he gives thanks (in Greek: eucharistian) that we have been judged worthy of these gifts.
When he has concluded the prayers and thanksgivings, all present give voice to an acclamation by saying: ‘Amen.’
When he who presides has given thanks and the people have responded, those whom we call deacons give to those present the “eucharisted” bread, wine and water and take them to those who are absent.171
1346 The liturgy of the Eucharist unfolds according to a fundamental structure which has been preserved throughout the centuries down to our own day. It displays two great parts that form a fundamental unity:
- the gathering, the liturgy of the Word, with readings, homily and general intercessions;
- the liturgy of the Eucharist, with the presentation of the bread and wine, the consecratory thanksgiving, and communion.
1347 Is this not the same movement as the Paschal meal of the risen Jesus with his disciples? Walking with them he explained the Scriptures to them; sitting with them at table "he took bread, blessed and broke it, and gave it to them."174
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U
Usagi
Guest
What you’re referring to as a “spiritual body” may be the same thing we often call a “glorified body” – that is, Jesus’ body post-resurrection, when he could appear from nowhere and such.
Though Jesus’ body was obviously transformed, Catholics at least are careful to insist that it is still a body, and yes, still the same body that suffered on the cross and lay in the tomb. Likewise, though our own resurrected bodies will be different than they are now, they will still be bodies, and our bodies.
That may be the source of the confusion here. We would not call such a body “purely spiritual,” because “spirit” for us means something that is almost the opposite of “body.” God the Father and God the Holy Spirit are pure spirit, but the Son now and forevermore has a body, even if it is a body quite different from the earthly sort we are familiar with.
Does a post-resurrection body have bones and nerves and veins in the same way our bodies do now? I don’t know. But it is still in some sense the same body that died, was buried, and (in our case, though not Jesus’) decayed to dust.
Except for the word “spiritual,” though, we would agree with your assessment. It is Jesus’ post-resurrection glorified body that is present under the appearances of bread and wine. And that body is capable of being on every altar in the world at once and yet not being divided.
Usagi
S
SyCarl
Guest
So in the same sentence Jesus doesn’t really mean whoever, but He does really mean His flesh and His blood? He puts no restrictions on the whoever.
- Status